I don't think it's silly because if they put out a silly chapter, I will criticize said silly chapter. You don't hold back on a free to play game, netflix show, or comic just cause of a schedule. None of that matters. It's the final product and quality that matters above all. They have full reins to do whatever they want to do with their scheduling and time. It's up to them. They could change if they want to, or not. Ignoring any of the delays or one page a few days thing some people don't like, it's still the final product that matters in the end. It just means more likely people who wait will lessen the blow of disappointment, or feel better to not have to be to wrapped up in a story they may like. For the specials they are the only mean to an actual story. I like to think they at least give people a story and focus that the main series sorely lacks, but unfortunate they are not thought out enough.rereboy wrote:If the specials were better than they are, obviously it would be better for DBM overall. However, given what's behind the specials (that I've explained), getting hung up on them is, imo, rather silly, and expecting them to be better when they are supposed to only last a chapter and just present the audience with an un-developed curiosity or two about a certain universe is also kind of silly in my opinion.dbzfan7 wrote:
I haven't quite seen your opinions on the comic I suppose. Still don't quite get how throwing something out for the sake of quantity is better than actual quality but whatever. I'd never support toei if they took the DBM approach and threw in TV specials that were sub par while the wait for their upcoming movie was some time away.
I would kind of understand that reaction if this was the first or the second special and you were lead to believe that they would be more than they are, but from the very first special is pretty clear what they are, so continuing to be hung up on it doesn't make much sense to me, especially when they are so easily ignored.
I have several criticisms for DBM but, at least for the main one I can find a justification for it based on the fact that its a fan manga with specific constraints.
The main criticism is the lack of development of character interactions, thoughts and focus on universe #18. In DBM there's a certain feeling of lack of depth or emotion regarding the characters, like they are more hollow than in the original manga. However, I think this is mainly because they have to prioritize what they show given that they can only make so many pages and takes a long time to release a chapter. It gets kind of hard with this scale of a event in a fanmanga.
Regarding the plot I honestly don't have many criticisms to make besides some details. The premise is pretty good for a fan comic and the planning of the tournament (who advances and who is gonna fight with who and who loses) is also pretty good for a fan comic, as well as the composition of each universe participating. The plot also allows for a lot of serious and less serious opportunities for all the characters in it and its pretty interesting overall. And it mixes the relaxed feeling of a mega fan wish-fulfillment tournament with the impending threat of a bigger danger that its still under wraps (XXI), as well as other potential dangers (Zen Buu, Cell, Vegetto, Ginyu). Also, the bigger threat is a logical one (the guy that imprisoned Dai Kaioshin 75 millions years ago and that was already very bad news then) instead of one that comes from nowhere, which is very positive.
Something that deserves some criticism is the lack of thought behind each universe's backstory. I think its kind of obvious that the DBM team didn't actually plan extensively the backstory of each universe. Some were easy enough, like Vegetto never defusing, but in others I'm pretty sure they just went "hey, wouldn't be cool if one universe had these fighters" and they never really planned extensively their backstories. This is not very important for the tournament itself or the fan manga, but it would have been nice to actually get the feeling that they all were well-planned. Of course, I can be wrong and maybe they are well planned, but I don't think so.
Other stuff is just some details, like Cold being stronger than Freeza without a better explanation for it. I actually offered better explanations for it on this topic. Or Broly's "invincible" state and the reason for why he is so strong. I believe that classification was just needless and I believe that Broly's power and resistance could have been better explained without any need for a constantly rising power and a "invincible" classification. And I also offered better explanations, imo, for it, on this topic. And some other stuff, but nothing really major.
Overall, I do have criticisms, but its obvious to me that DBM is basically the best DB fan manga. Some, like who wants to be a superhero, can be argued to be better, but its an unfair comparison because they don't even try to do something of this scale or are even remotely as long as DBM or try to have an ending or conclusion. They end up being short, incomplete and sweet because they focus solely on a few good ideas and aren't developed enough to even go beyond those few initial ideas, they never actually go beyond the potential state. Like yourself stated, DBM hooked you at the beginning. What if DBM had been interrupted in the early chapters and never continued? You probably you rank it higher but would it truly be better just because it never got to develop beyond the initial point and got stuck at the potential state? I don't think it would, I think that's just an illusion because we only get to see the potential of it.
Well like I said I enjoy seeing the stupidity and how some people are ok with shovelware. It boggles my mind that more content=better than less content to be formed into something good. Apparently being patient for the page schedule is the right thing to do, but being patient for maybe a hiatus to allow for some critical thinking and plotting, is not ok.
Final result is all that matters. Constraints effect the results, but they do not effect how something should be criticized. Many many games have had these kind of problems and worse, but no one should go easy on them because something in production went wrong. None of that matters to the final result. The final result is what's looked at and decided to be good enough. But is it really? That's up to the viewers.
Personally I'd feel it's more of not having a properly planned out story, or just going above what they can handle. From what I see when they do a good job, they really do a good job. However when they force themselves to deal with all this extra stuff, they are hurting themselves. I think they should introduce an ongoing story like all of Toriyama's tourney's instead of the implications of something possibly great, but leaving us with a hollow, but occasionally fun match up.
I somewhat agree with you here. Except for the hollow conflicts and how most of it can be thrown under the carpet like it never happened. Conflicts don't seem to come up or evolve, they just show up, are dealt with quickly, then are gone for a long period of time. That's about the conflicting nature of the story to me in a nutshell. Here's Broly, he's gone and nothing really changes. Here's Boo in space going after Broly, and it's pretty much dropped much to even Vegetto's confusion, then is never brought up again. Here's the weapon that can kill the audience by accident, and it's pretty much not even debated about even though it's a safety hazard. It's like Eh who cares if these tech guys can kill the audience with their weapons (Dragon balls or not). Here's Bardock with the future, and he keeps it to himself so nothing changes. Here's Boo taking over...and now he's quickly stopped. This one could amount to something...but we'll have to see.
That's kinda what the specials should really cover which they do sometimes when it's not stuff no one really asked for. Honestly the Z warriors die to the villains thing is too damn obvious that everyone probably knew. Stuff like that isn't really important. Things like how they did Tapion, Gast, etc are more important.
Oh you could go so much more into this, but yeah whatever.
I don't think it's unfair at all. The only thing that matters is final satisfaction, not the production itself. If I am more satisfied with an incomplete comic, it did it's job better for me at least then an ongoing one. You can find tons of indie titles with way less ambition that can be more enjoyed then the massive AAA productions. Scale doesn't matter, the enjoyment is what matters. I also would rank DBM higher just as someone would rank the Simpsons higher if the show ended sooner instead of going on and on to some people's disappointment. Right now it really is starting to interest me in a good way again, as well as Boo actually making changes that can't simply be ignored. He will probably actually make a much bigger affect now, than any of his other two moments in the story.
I thank you for sharing your opinion with me here Rereboy. Though being a translator and part of their team does unfortunately make me think there may be some bias. I mean we all do have some bias to the things we work on. I know I do.
It does it's job as a crowd pleaser, but as a work of genius or something spectacular it is not. It is to be commended for it's ambition, but it's short comings overall I feel hurt it. I feel if they got more people to help them work things out and make decisions, things could be better. I'm happy no matter what as it's fan stuff and it ain't official anyways. When the official stuff is bad, well fuck we're stuck with that. If DBM does bad I get a laugh and it really doesn't matter since it's fanwork. It's harmless in the end. I look forward to Zen Boo here as unlike his forgettable other conflicts which meant nothing, this could mean something for once. I swear if those Vargas ignore this like the killer tech weapons, then Broly needs to come back and kill more of them. DBM got that right for sure XD.Skar wrote:I think DBM would work differently since it's not really an independent story. The foundation for DBM was the manga and the other universes. If there's a beginning, middle, and the end of DBM then the tournament would technically be the middle. Salagir could have had written the long history of each alternate universe and then decide to have a big tournament between all the AUs he wrote. Instead he decided to start the story at the beginning of the tournament and slowly tell the backstory of the universes as filler. That's why I don't really consider DBM a sequel. It's a sequel in the sense that it takes place after the manga ended but it's more of a side-story or crossover after the storylines of each of the individual universes have ended. That's why the development of the story won't feel like it did in the manga or in the usual sequel with multiple shorter sagas.
. You want to stay here only if other people agree with your opinion, is that it? Because nobody insulted you or was rude to you at all. All you got were other opinions with justifications.
