Unpopular DB opinions

[superfunk]

At the absolute minimum the manga has to be considered canon, so yes there is a canon.
b : the authentic works of a writer
c : a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works <the canon of great literature>, these are some definitions.
the problem is 'b' exists but 'c' can't be decided on. so the manga is canon, but you can decide on what you want to include in that canon.

[ABED]

So Dragon Ball should have a canon because it has multiple takes on its story, but none has ever been officially established, so only personal canons exist at the moment.

Toriyama created the original story, and canon is in contrast to things like fan fiction or adaptations. It's implicit that the original story is canon unless stated otherwise. Something like Bardock special which was created for the anime qualifies, if I recall correctly.

That wasn't a rage boost that finished off Cell, that was Gohan mustering all of his power.

And? We still have the manga stating that Super Saiyan makes the user more brutal, we still have the manga saying that by mastering Super Saiyan they also want to get rid of that "restless feeling", we still have the manga showing Gohan turning more brutal as a Super Saiyan 2, we still have the manga portraying Super Saiyan 3 Goku as calmer than he usually is, and we still have the manga stating that Ultimate Gohan isn't soft like he normally is.

No, we have a movie, which as stated, isn't canon.
That restless feeling is physical.
Gohan was pissed off, it wasn't the transformation directly.
Wait, now SS3 makes saiyans calm again? It doesn't say that at all. Goku had time to train with the transformation, so he's more comfortable with it. Your inferences are way off base.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No, we have a movie, which as stated, isn't canon.

And the manga.

[ABED]

No, we have a movie, which as stated, isn't canon.

And the manga.

That's Vegeta, of course he's going to be more brutal with more power.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That's Vegeta, of course he's going to be more brutal with more power.

Why? He says that by transforming, he gets more brutal. What does power have to do with anything?

[ABED]

That's Vegeta, of course he's going to be more brutal with more power.

Why? He says that by transforming, he gets more brutal. What does power have to do with anything?

He's a power luster! Power brings out the worst aspects in Vegeta, and you can't take a villain at his word. He said he became a Super Saiyan because he's pure evil, but that's not the case with him by that point.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Power just makes Vegeta arrogant, not more brutal. He also says that he gets more brutal when he turns into a Super Saiyan, not when he achieved that power or anything similar.

He said he became a Super Saiyan because he's pure evil, but that's not the case with him by that point.

How so? He is only allied with the Z-Senshi for his selfish reason to fight the new strong guys, and for his selfish reason to kill Goku after that. He doesn't bother to kill Earthlings, and he doesn't care for anyone but himself at this point.

[ABED]

Power just makes Vegeta arrogant, not more brutal. He also says that he gets more brutal when he turns into a Super Saiyan, not when he achieved that power.

Vegeta does pretty damn brutal when he is more powerful, and why are you taking his words as anything more than a threat?

He is only allied with the Z-Senshi for his selfish reason to fight the new strong guys, and for his selfish reason to kill Goku after that. He doesn't bother to kill Earthlings, and he doesn't care for anyone but himself at this point.

First off, that's not selfish. Goku and co want to stay alive, that's selfish. Vegeta is in it for the thrill, that's not selfish in the true sense of the word. Vegeta at this point is starting to change. He clearly was nice enough to Bulma that she thought it acceptable to sleep with him. He's not pure evil. If he was still pure evil by this point, what changes by the end of the Cell arc?

[Kamiccolo9]

He's not pure evil. If he was still pure evil by this point, what changes by the end of the Cell arc?

He spends a year with his son, and watches said son get killed right in front of him, while being unable to do anything about it. Also, the son of his hated rival gets hurt in the process of saving him from the same monster who killed his son.

[ABED]

He's not pure evil. If he was still pure evil by this point, what changes by the end of the Cell arc?

He spends a year with his son, and watches said son get killed right in front of him, while being unable to do anything about it. Also, the son of his hated rival gets hurt in the process of saving him from the same monster who killed his son.

He BARELY spent time with Trunks. He also saw his baby son and the mother die right in front of him, yet he did nothing. If he's pure evil at that point, it's a HUGE jump to start caring just because they spent time in a room together.

[Kamiccolo9]

He's not pure evil. If he was still pure evil by this point, what changes by the end of the Cell arc?

He spends a year with his son, and watches said son get killed right in front of him, while being unable to do anything about it. Also, the son of his hated rival gets hurt in the process of saving him from the same monster who killed his son.

He BARELY spent time with Trunks. He also saw his baby son and the mother die right in front of him, yet he did nothing. If he's pure evil at that point, it's a HUGE jump to start caring just because they spent time in a room together.

He spent a year alone with him. And then watched his son get murdered right in front of him, without being able to do anything about it. He obviously had begun to care about Trunks by that time, since right after Trunks was killed, Vegeta went berserk and tried to wipe out Cell.

After that, he was saved by the son of his greatest enemy. He even apologized to Gohan for causing him to be injured, when it looked like Cell was going to kill them all.

And to top it all off, Goku died, depriving Vegeta of what he had built up as his main goal in life.

So, how exactly would any of this NOT have a huge effect on Vegeta?

[ABED]

[He spent a year alone with him. And then watched his son get murdered right in front of him, without being able to do anything about it. He obviously had begun to care about Trunks by that time, since right after Trunks was killed, Vegeta went berserk and tried to wipe out Cell.

After that, he was saved by the son of his greatest enemy. He even apologized to Gohan for causing him to be injured, when it looked like Cell was going to kill them all.

And to top it all off, Goku died, depriving Vegeta of what he had built up as his main goal in life.

So, how exactly would any of this NOT have a huge effect on Vegeta?

I get that he spent some time with Trunks, but it was apparently so little over the course of that year, that unless Vegeta's humanity had begun to emerge, that wouldn't have meant very much. Just spending time in a room wouldn't be enough to go from pure evil (if he ever was) to a guy that would go ballistic over his son's death and tell his greatest enemy's son "I'm sorry".

And no, him going berserk was NOT right after. Vegeta fought his son and showed no feelings towards him when he was going to allow Cell to reach his perfect form.

Appologizing to Gohan isn't the cause of him being somewhat good, it's an effect. The way you make it sound is like a light bulb.

Tell me how someone pure evil gets close enough to Bulma to sleep with her consensually?

[Kamiccolo9]

[He spent a year alone with him. And then watched his son get murdered right in front of him, without being able to do anything about it. He obviously had begun to care about Trunks by that time, since right after Trunks was killed, Vegeta went berserk and tried to wipe out Cell.

After that, he was saved by the son of his greatest enemy. He even apologized to Gohan for causing him to be injured, when it looked like Cell was going to kill them all.

And to top it all off, Goku died, depriving Vegeta of what he had built up as his main goal in life.

So, how exactly would any of this NOT have a huge effect on Vegeta?

I get that he spent some time with Trunks, but it was apparently so little over the course of that year, that unless Vegeta's humanity had begun to emerge, that wouldn't have meant very much. Just spending time in a room wouldn't be enough to go from pure evil (if he ever was) to a guy that would go ballistic over his son's death and tell his greatest enemy's son "I'm sorry".

And no, him going berserk was NOT right after. Vegeta fought his son and showed no feelings towards him when he was going to allow Cell to reach his perfect form.

Appologizing to Gohan isn't the cause of him being somewhat good, it's an effect. The way you make it sound is like a light bulb.

Tell me how someone pure evil gets close enough to Bulma to sleep with her consensually?

Yes, he did. Right after Cell shot Trunks, Vegeta went berserk and attacked him. And apparently it was enough, seeing as Trunks getting killed in front of him upset him enough to through his life away against a guy he knew he couldn't beat.

And after Cell is defeated, Vegeta has his little inner monologue about how his whole reason for living is gone now with Goku dead. Again, how does any of this not signify a change in Vegeta?

[DBZAOTA482]

He clearly was nice enough to Bulma that she thought it acceptable to sleep with him.

She's Bulma. She'd sleep with anything that has a dick.

[MediaFanGirl93]

He clearly was nice enough to Bulma that she thought it acceptable to sleep with him.

She's Bulma. She'd sleep with anything that has a dick.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That made me laugh so hard I spit out my soda. XD

[ABED]

Bulma's flighty, but she's not that dense, and she didn't sleep with Roshi even though he constantly showed interest. She didn't show any interest in Kuririn. She was attracted to Zarbon, but when he made it clear he would kill her, the googly eyes ended.

Yes, he did. Right after Cell shot Trunks, Vegeta went berserk and attacked him. And apparently it was enough, seeing as Trunks getting killed in front of him upset him enough to through his life away against a guy he knew he couldn't beat.

And after Cell is defeated, Vegeta has his little inner monologue about how his whole reason for living is gone now with Goku dead. Again, how does any of this not signify a change in Vegeta?

SO not my point. Yes, it was a change, but the change had already begun. One could argue that Vegeta began changing after Freeza showed him what true power is.

[MediaFanGirl93]

Bulma's flighty, but she's not that dense, and she didn't sleep with Roshi even though he constantly showed interest. She didn't show any interest in Kuririn. She was attracted to Zarbon, but when he made it clear he would kill her, the googly eyes ended.

I know, and I agree. I was just laughing. I think another unpopular opinion I have is how disgusting I think Roshi is. He's an elderly man hitting on teenage girls. Squick, much? Plus, Roshi hits on any female that moves.

[DBZAOTA482]

Bulma's flighty, but she's not that dense, and she didn't sleep with Roshi even though he constantly showed interest. She didn't show any interest in Kuririn. She was attracted to Zarbon, but when he made it clear he would kill her, the googly eyes ended.

Bulma only started rejecting Zarbon after sge saw sight of his true form. She cares more about surface traits than character.

Okay saying she gets down with anything that has a dick is an exaggeration. Anything with a handsome face and a dick is more accurate.

P.S. Only in the anime did Bulma ogle Zarbon.

[Kamiccolo9]

Bulma's flighty, but she's not that dense, and she didn't sleep with Roshi even though he constantly showed interest. She didn't show any interest in Kuririn. She was attracted to Zarbon, but when he made it clear he would kill her, the googly eyes ended.

Bulma only started rejecting Zarbon after sge saw sight of his true form. She cares more about surface traits than character.

Maybe saying she gets down with anything that has a dick is a stretch. Anything with a handsome face and a dick is more accurate.

P.S. Only in the anime did Bulma ogle Zarbon.

She went after General Blue in the manga.

[orbweaver]

Eh, after seeing Kai, Vegeta's story makes a lot more sense to me. Z makes him much more of a bastard. He's still a bastard, but now he's just a slightly recovered sociopathic mass murderer instead of a slightly recovered omnicidal, megalomaniac sociopathic mass murderer.