Is Goku really not a superman in anyway?

[Doctor.]

That I think you have a very conventional and misguided view of what it means to be selfish. If selfishness is concern for one's self interest, why is putting something you value in danger selfish?

Because he (unknowingly) puts them in danger for his own enjoyment. As in to get a good fight, like when he let Piccolo and Vegeta live.

That doesn't strike me as Goku. If he knew someone was going to destroy the Earth, he would defend it because it's his home.

Possibly, but (kid) Goku wouldn't go around searching for the individual until they crossed paths.

Adult Goku would.

[fadeddreams5]

Honestly, I'm so confused over how/what Goku is "supposed" to be, which, apparently, Toei and Funi Goku is not. But that's the only Goku I'm familiar with and care about.

[Doctor.]

Honestly, I'm so confused over how/what Goku is "supposed" to be, which, apparently, Toei and Funi Goku is not. But that's the only Goku I'm familiar with and care about.

Then read the manga and take your own interpretation of the character. Everyone has a different one, Goku is not an overly complex character, but he does have depth. If you want to know how Toriyama's Goku is "supposed to be" like, then you have to read the manga.

[fadeddreams5]

What is even the best English version of the manga to read? I'd assume Viz's iffy translations won't help me. lol.

[Doctor.]

If you just want to get a good grasp on Toriyama's Goku, then I reckon any moderately good translation will do, lol. You can always ask in the translation thread to clear up some stuff you find iffy or out-of-character.

[Alex9196]

how does the manga goku differ? i read the manga and watched the anime. i would say they are pretty the same.
or am i missunderstanding something here?

[Doctor.]

They're largely the same, since obviously the anime adapts the manga. But Toei adds a lot of fluff and dialogue to make Goku seem more heroic (Kaioken x20 Kamehameha for instance), especially in filler scenes and in the movies. That's not to say in the manga Goku isn't heroic, but he's not portrayed to be such a big hero like Toei's version.

[Alex9196]

oh i didnt even realize that kaioken x20 wasnt in the manga. but i only read it once until now.

i dont like to read the manga so much because there are no fight sequences. i mean there are, but they are just pictures.
on the other hand, in hindsight i would have read the manga first and then watched the anime. since the manga reads itsself so fast and you get just the "important" stuff if you start to get into the series.

[Doctor.]

It was in the manga. I'm saying they added fluff in the anime, like his nightmare and his whole speech about protecting his family and friends.

[supercat]

Anime Goku and manga Goku possess nearly identical personalities, but the former embodies a persona that is far more akin to the classic super hero that prioritizes saving people over all else. While the latter is also quite heroic, he makes it pretty clear that training and fighting superior opponents is basically his number one aspiration.

Even in the anime, there are subtle differences depending on the dub you watch.

[ABED]

That I think you have a very conventional and misguided view of what it means to be selfish. If selfishness is concern for one's self interest, why is putting something you value in danger selfish?

Because he (unknowingly) puts them in danger for his own enjoyment. As in to get a good fight, like when he let Piccolo and Vegeta live.

That doesn't strike me as Goku. If he knew someone was going to destroy the Earth, he would defend it because it's his home.

Possibly, but (kid) Goku wouldn't go around searching for the individual until they crossed paths.

Adult Goku would.

And the momentary enjoyment is in his self interest? You're equivocating selfish with immoral.

And no, Goku didn't go around searching for people to save. All of the threats came after him and his friends and family.

[Doctor.]

And the momentary enjoyment is in his self interest? You're equivocating selfish with immoral.

Didn't Goku say he was selfish back when he sacrificed himself against Cell?

And no, Goku didn't go around searching for people to save. All of the threats came after him and his friends and family.

Of course not, like I said, he isn't like Gohan, he doesn't go around stopping enemies purposefully.

But when they put the Earth itself in danger, he will. Like, for example, the androids. He didn't wait until the androids came after him and his friends, he went after them first. This is different than kid Goku who didn't care about the RRA until they killed Bora.

[Berserker1921]

Both Goku and superman have similarities. However the biggest difference that they have is that well Goku spares people cause he wants to fight them again. Or allow enemies to become stronger so he could have a challenge for the future. Now superman stops and does not kill them because of his strong morality. Yes. I know this is kind of similar to what I said. However superman believes in mercy. While Goku believes that oh wow they almost killed me. I should spare them then maybe next time they could be a tougher battle.

The only time Goku says okay that's enough is when he realizes they are too much of a threat and too many people have died. While superman would never ever ever do what Goku does.

Ex:
Bulma: "why don't we use the dragon and find doctor Gero before his machines kill us?"
Goku: "nah. That's not fair. He hasn't done anything wrong yet. Also I really want to fight the androids."
Superman: "No. We use the dragon. Find him and arrest him before he created the androids. So their are no future casualties."
Goku: "Ah! Always taking the fun out of everything." -sighs and teleports home to train-

Also superman doesn't blow off his friends and family for years because they prefer training. Yes. You can argue that Goku is doing this to protect everyone. Yet superman doesn't need to worry about this because he has constant power through the yellow sun and just being a god. They are good men. However superman is an overall better person. Not just because he spends time with his friends and loved ones. But mostly will spend time to help others even if a super villain isn't destroying cities. He spends any and all time that he doesn't give to his loved ones to the job.

Yes if Goku was in town and saw someone getting robbed or hurt. He would stop them. However he isn't actively seeking to help people. He sees the big picture. While superman sees both. However focuses on the smaller picture mostly.

Ex:
Superman: "Hey Goku want to help me patrol the world?"
Goku: "Will their be strong enemies to face?"
Superman: "Maybe. I don't know. I would imagine mostly smaller thugs and criminals. However will probably be saving people mostly. Visit sick kids and help anywhere we can."
Goku thinks for a second.
Goku: "Nah. Sounds boring. I rather train."

Goku is neutral good and only helps when he feels he needs too. Or actually defeat his enemy when he realizes he has bitten more then he can chew. While superman is more chaotic good and will stop nothing to save everyone. Also stop foes when ever he has a chance. That's my theory anyways. I love both guys. However we have to stop comparing them. It's like apple to oranges.
Ps. For fun. Lol.

Ex:
Big baddie: "Allow me to show you my further evolution. I will be three times stronger then both of you fools." -points at both Goku and superman. As he starts to power up.
Goku: "Oh right! Now we have a challenge." -Smiles as he readies himself for the fight of his life.
Superman: -looks at both Goku and the enemy. Sees Goku wants to fight the foe instead of taking him out. Shakes his head. "I don't have time for this. He has already hurt too many innocent people." -zooms in and punches the enemy. Knocks him out and takes him the fortress of solitude. Throws him into the phantom zone. Then returns to Goku and slaps him the back of the head. "Stop being an idiot. Next time when you have the advantage. Take it."
Goku: -rubs head- "Ow! It wouldn't be a satisfying battle then."
Superman: -shakes his head and flies away to help with the damage caused by the big baddie. Compltiplaying about throwing Goku into the phantom zone. Since he is more of a risk then hero.

[TheUltimateVegito]

i mean when he died against cell maybe he was saying his honest opinion on why he wants to stay in otherworld, but maybe he wanted to train undisturbed in the otherworld without his insanely irritating wife and without any real sparring partner.

Well, ChiChi wasn't shown to be irritating for Goku. The only time ChiChi threw a fit was when Gohan fighting is involved. And as for a sparring partner, he had Gohan, who was more than enough. Whenever Gohan was busy studying Goku could've trained, and whenever Gohan was not busy they would've most likely sparred with each other. Plus, I'm sure Goku's presence would motivate Gohan to stay in shape.

[TheUltimateVegito]

I think you missed the part where Goku takes it upon himself to avenge the people he shouldn't give two shits about.

Well, he did only fought for the Saiyans because of how much he respected their pride due to Vegeta's death, not because he felt sorry for them. He even said during his fight with Frieza that Planet Vegeta deserved to be destroyed.

[Doctor.]

I think you missed the part where Goku takes it upon himself to avenge the people he shouldn't give two shits about.

Well, he did only fought for the Saiyans because of how much he respected their pride due to Vegeta's death, not because he felt sorry for them. He even said during his fight with Freeza that Planet Vegeta deserved to be destroyed.

He didn't put it so bluntly, he said "that's why we perished", plus he was incredibly angry and not himself at that point.

[TheUltimateVegito]

Ex:
Big baddie: "Allow me to show you my further evolution. I will be three times stronger then both of you fools." -points at both Goku and superman. As he starts to power up.
Goku: "Oh right! Now we have a challenge." -Smiles as he readies himself for the fight of his life.
Superman: -looks at both Goku and the enemy. Sees Goku wants to fight the foe instead of taking him out. Shakes his head. "I don't have time for this. He has already hurt too many innocent people." -zooms in and punches the enemy. Knocks him out and takes him the fortress of solitude. Throws him into the phantom zone. Then returns to Goku and slaps him the back of the head. "Stop being an idiot. Next time when you have the advantage. Take it."
Goku: -rubs head- "Ow! It wouldn't be a satisfying battle then."
Superman: -shakes his head and flies away to help with the damage caused by the big baddie. Compltiplaying about throwing Goku into the phantom zone. Since he is more of a risk then hero.

You've got it right on point!

Although, even though Goku would always let the Big Baddie power up to his maximum, he does acknowledge the danger it can bring. As shown by him acknowledging sparing Vegeta was the wrong thing to do. Heck, him deciding to stay dead due to his belief that the earth would be safer without him shows that he grew to care for the consequences that sort of action could bring. At that point, Goku's outlook was changed so that he felt prevention is better than cure, whereas he would only care for the cure beforehand. But at the same time, his priorities when it came to fighting was unchanged, as it is near impossible for it to change due to his Saiyan blood. Him acknowledging his selfish ways before his sacrifice against Cell, as well as him claiming Gohan is a better person than he is supports this. There's also the fact that Goku was ok with Buu not being hatched, which further supports this. So, in a sense, Goku by the Cell/Buu arcs is like Superman in that regard, but cannot act on that outlook (Besides staying dead, of course) due to his fighting priorities.

[TheUltimateVegito]

I think you missed the part where Goku takes it upon himself to avenge the people he shouldn't give two shits about.

Well, he did only fought for the Saiyans because of how much he respected their pride due to Vegeta's death, not because he felt sorry for them. He even said during his fight with Freeza that Planet Vegeta deserved to be destroyed.

He didn't put it so bluntly, he said "that's why we perished", plus he was incredibly angry and not himself at that point.

Either way, I'm sure he meant that the Saiyans were just as bad as Frieza, so he believed they were better off dead. Goku was definitely himself, despite being angry. I mean, he did want to spare Frieza after all. And I don't recall him acting differently during their fight, like Gohan did when he fought Cell.

[Alex9196]

i mean when he died against cell maybe he was saying his honest opinion on why he wants to stay in otherworld, but maybe he wanted to train undisturbed in the otherworld without his insanely irritating wife and without any real sparring partner.

Well, ChiChi wasn't shown to be irritating for Goku. The only time ChiChi threw a fit was when Gohan fighting is involved. And as for a sparring partner, he had Gohan, who was more than enough. Whenever Gohan was busy studying Goku could've trained, and whenever Gohan was not busy they would've most likely sparred with each other. Plus, I'm sure Goku's presence would motivate Gohan to stay in shape.

I dont think ChiChi would let Gohan sparr with Goku. She even said that after the training he studies. And knowing Gohan he would have probably done it anyway. Also how is ChiChi not irritating?

She always wants Goku to find a job, because obviously multiple savior of the world is not a good enough occupation for her. And if you count Filler she even wants him to drive her around in the car and make familytrips of some sort.

[Doctor.]

Either way, I'm sure he meant that the Saiyans were just as bad as Freeza, so he believed they were better off dead. Goku was definitely himself, despite being angry. I mean, he did want to spare Freeza after all. And I don't recall him acting differently during their fight, like Gohan did when he fought Cell.

Nobody is denying that Goku thought the Saiyans were better off dead. But just like he was avenging the Namekians, and Vegeta, he also put it upon himself to avenge the Saiyans, he says it himself. Why he did that is up to anyone's guess.

And Goku did lose a part of himself during the fight, that's the main point of the SS transformation. Kaio puts it very clearly that Goku is no longer himself but has turned into the Super Saiyan, "a warrior whose heart has been awakened by rage". Goku only regains his personality back when he calms himself down later on in the fight.