Funny thing about Cell.

[ABED]

You still haven't explained how Buu is more important to the mythos than Cell.

[Toxin45]

You still haven't explained how Buu is more important to the mythos than Cell.

Because buu is satan's best friend and thanks to Satan they beat evil buu

[ABED]

Buu is more important to the lore because he helped defeat another version of himself?

[Toxin45]

Buu is more important to the lore because he helped defeat another version of himself?

Well giving more character devlopment to hercule and help us gained fusions and super Saiyan 3

[Kamiccolo9]

Buu's existence led to Goku and co. getting involved in the cosmic hierarchy with the Kaioshin stuff, which has had a much greater impact on Super than Cell has. Without Cell, you'd still have the Androids, the Room of Spirit and Time, etc. Without Buu, you'd have none of his arc besides the Great Saiyaman stuff and a totally different 25th Budokai, and none of Super.

[ABED]

the Room of Spirit and Time

Toriyama had already foreshadowed Cell well before the room of spirit and time.

getting involved in the cosmic hierarchy with the Kaioshin stuff

Kaio doesn't count? The Kaioshin are just higher on the ladder.

Saying without Buu you wouldn't have the Buu arc is a tautology. Without Cell you wouldn't have the Cell arc. And while Super would be different if there was no Buu arc, the popularity of DB and the trend of resurrecting dormant franchises all but guaranteed we'd get something like Super.

Well giving more character devlopment to hercule and help us gained fusions and super Saiyan 3

Mr. Satan, not Hercule. Mr. Satan was introduced into the Cell arc, and the concept of going beyond Super Saiyan was introduced in the Cell arc.

At most, Cell and Buu's relevance to DB's lore is about the same.

[Toxin45]

the Room of Spirit and Time

Toriyama had already foreshadowed Cell well before the room of spirit and time.

getting involved in the cosmic hierarchy with the Kaioshin stuff

Kaio doesn't count? The Kaioshin are just higher on the ladder.

Saying without Buu you wouldn't have the Buu arc is a tautology. Without Cell you wouldn't have the Cell arc. And while Super would be different if there was no Buu arc, the popularity of DB and the trend of resurrecting dormant franchises all but guaranteed we'd get something like Super.

Well giving more character devlopment to hercule and help us gained fusions and super Saiyan 3

Mr. Satan, not Hercule. Mr. Satan was introduced into the Cell arc, and the concept of going beyond Super Saiyan was introduced in the Cell arc.

At most, Cell and Buu's relevance to DB's lore is about the same.

Yeah Frieza is pretty much more relevant to DB's lore. how do you feel about Frieza being the most recurring villain in the series?

[ABED]

I wish they wouldn't keep bringing him back. He's been defeated and killed multiple times. As far as I can tell, there are two roads to go with him: 1) keep him a villain and have him lose again, which we've seen already, or 2) have him become a better person, which we've also seen several other characters do. I wish DB would do what it used to - introduce another villain and develop them. Quit relying on the past.

[Toxin45]

I wish they wouldn't keep bringing him back. He's been defeated and killed multiple times. As far as I can tell, there are two roads to go with him: 1) keep him a villain and have him lose again, which we've seen already, or 2) have him become a better person, which we've also seen several other characters do. I wish DB would do what it used to - introduce another villain and develop them. Quit relying on the past.

Nah Frieza said he wouldn't give up his evil ways and we already have another villain developed in super also there are a third option have frieza return in future arcs and your opinion would have frieza win an arc and keep returning basically Toriyama has no intention of keeping Frieza dead dude. New villains who either make a big impact or suck.

[ABED]

I wish they wouldn't keep bringing him back. He's been defeated and killed multiple times. As far as I can tell, there are two roads to go with him: 1) keep him a villain and have him lose again, which we've seen already, or 2) have him become a better person, which we've also seen several other characters do. I wish DB would do what it used to - introduce another villain and develop them. Quit relying on the past.

Nah Frieza said he wouldn't give up his evil ways and we already have another villain developed in super also there are a third option have frieza return in future arcs and your opinion would have frieza win an arc and keep returning basically Toriyama has no intention of keeping Frieza dead dude. New villains who either make a big impact or suck.

In that case, it's option 1. Freeza might win a round, but he won't achieve his ultimate goal(s), whatever they are. It's always been the case that new villains either make a big impact or they suck. Doesn't mean writers shouldn't come up with new characters. That's one of the best things about DB - it changed things up a lot. I think that was a big reason for its success and why it stayed fresh for so long.

[Forte224]

I wish they wouldn't keep bringing him back. He's been defeated and killed multiple times. As far as I can tell, there are two roads to go with him: 1) keep him a villain and have him lose again, which we've seen already, or 2) have him become a better person, which we've also seen several other characters do. I wish DB would do what it used to - introduce another villain and develop them. Quit relying on the past.

In 131 episodes, plus BoG, we've had Beerus, Hit, Black, Zamasu and Jiren introduced as major villains/opponents, while Freeza is the one and only villain in all of it to be a returning villain. Don't make it sound like it's a general thing that Super does.

[Toxin45]

I wish they wouldn't keep bringing him back. He's been defeated and killed multiple times. As far as I can tell, there are two roads to go with him: 1) keep him a villain and have him lose again, which we've seen already, or 2) have him become a better person, which we've also seen several other characters do. I wish DB would do what it used to - introduce another villain and develop them. Quit relying on the past.

Nah Frieza said he wouldn't give up his evil ways and we already have another villain developed in super also there are a third option have frieza return in future arcs and your opinion would have frieza win an arc and keep returning basically Toriyama has no intention of keeping Frieza dead dude. New villains who either make a big impact or suck.

In that case, it's option 1. Freeza might win a round, but he won't achieve his ultimate goal(s), whatever they are. It's always been the case that new villains either make a big impact or they suck. Doesn't mean writers shouldn't come up with new characters. That's one of the best things about DB - it changed things up a lot. I think that was a big reason for its success and why it stayed fresh for so long.

Yeah and even those new character becomes old and if those new characters become recurring they proably become stale as well but still remain loved what ideas for new characters you have huh? Besides with how Toriyama revives frieza I don't think he will kill him off anymore.

[ABED]

It's not my job to come up with new characters, I simply don't want them to keep trotting out the past. Vegeta and Piccolo became part of the team. If Freeza remains a villain, then he's lost his potency. It's over reliance on nostalgia. For that reason, I like that Cell has stayed dead.

[Toxin45]

It's not my job to come up with new characters, I simply don't want them to keep trotting out the past. Vegeta and Piccolo became part of the team. If Freeza remains a villain, then he's lost his potency. It's over reliance on nostalgia

Nah he is goku's archenemy at this point and your kinda bias over nostalgia and he w.ll stay a recurring villain Toriyama brought him back twice so he has no intention of getting rid of frieza anytime and we have Beerus,Hit,Black,and Jiren as antagonist does that not satisfy you/

[ABED]

It's not my job to come up with new characters, I simply don't want them to keep trotting out the past. Vegeta and Piccolo became part of the team. If Freeza remains a villain, then he's lost his potency. It's over reliance on nostalgia

Nah he is goku's archenemy at this point and your kinda bias over nostalgia and he w.ll stay a recurring villain Toriyama brought him back twice so he has no intention of getting rid of frieza anytime and we have Beerus,Hit,Black,and Jiren as antagonist does that not satisfy you/

But not a good one. He's lost decisively every single time. I don't mind nostalgia in small doses, but there is a point of diminishing marginal returns and at some point a villain who constantly loses and comes back becomes little more than a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Beerus isn't really a villain. He's more of a force of nature, which I found refreshing.

[Toxin45]

It's not my job to come up with new characters, I simply don't want them to keep trotting out the past. Vegeta and Piccolo became part of the team. If Freeza remains a villain, then he's lost his potency. It's over reliance on nostalgia

Nah he is goku's archenemy at this point and your kinda bias over nostalgia and he w.ll stay a recurring villain Toriyama brought him back twice so he has no intention of getting rid of frieza anytime and we have Beerus,Hit,Black,and Jiren as antagonist does that not satisfy you/

But not a good one. He's lost decisively every single time. I don't mind nostalgia in small doses, but there is a point of diminishing returns and at some point a villain who constantly loses and comes back becomes little more than a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Beerus isn't really a villain. He's more of a force of nature, which I found refreshing.

Well Frieza can train like goku now after he rebuilds his empire and keeps up with him. Also Yeah Beerus pretty much stop being an antagonist is it because of filler and gt that was retconed. Also that is your opinion just like mine.

[ABED]

I have a hard time understanding your sentences.

[Toxin45]

I have a hard time understanding your sentences.

Eh I am saying that Frieza can train now just like goku he is pretty much the bowser and eggman of the series at this point and the franchise can't move on form Frieza anymore. Also Frieza in filler and Gt were retconed out. you call him a not good archenemy but Frieza is still goku's most personal enemy besides look at Joker he pretty much returns despite losing a couple times no matter how strong or skiller the new villains that goku fights Frieza will still be goku's most personal arch-nemesis.

[ABED]

DB always moved on from villains. How did it lose that ability in the intervening years? Even taking GT out of the equation, Goku defeated Freeza on Namek, was killed by Trunks on Earth, was brought back only to be killed again for making the same mistake he made in the first fight against Goku, now he's back.

Joker can be interpretted in numerous ways and it's not all one story. That's not a good comparison.

[Toxin45]

DB always moved on from villains. How did it lose that ability in the intervening years? Even taking GT out of the equation, Goku defeated Freeza on Namek, was killed by Trunks on Earth, was brought back only to be killed again for making the same mistake he made in the first fight against Goku, now he's back.

Joker can be interpretted in numerous ways and it's not all one story. That's not a good comparison.

Well Toriyama pretty much decided to make an exception to Frieza