Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

[fadeddreams5]

I love how some people are coming up with in-universe reasons for him not being able to go ultimate, and justifying them by asking things like "how do you expect him to train if he's a father and scholar?!"

lmao. Come on, guys.

These kinds of posts add nothing to the discussion. If all you want to do is be sarcastic about others' contributions, please do so aloud to yourself at home. You can say whatever you want there.

Here, however, we ask that you add something of value. You clearly have thoughts on the matter, so please share them rather than disparaging other members.

The "lmao" gave that post a tone I didn't intend.

But I figure people know where I'm getting at. To articulate further, I'm criticizing the notion that there should be an in-universe justification for this that specifically involves him being an untrained family man. It's lousy reasoning because he can actually be written as an untrained family man who has actually become stronger due to his unique power. For instance, what if his power actually never stopped growing after the Old Kai unlocked it, eliminating the need of conventional training? That can be a thing.

Generally, the question shouldn't even be "how did he lose his powers?" but "why did they choose to make him a pansy?" The only real justification is they wanted him out of the spotlight. Plain and simple. If it's not in this movie or the special book that some audience members will receive, there will never be an official in-universe explanation.

[singsing]

I love how some people are coming up with in-universe reasons for him not being able to go ultimate, and justifying them by asking things like "how do you expect him to train if he's a father and scholar?!"

lmao. Come on, guys.

These kinds of posts add nothing to the discussion. If all you want to do is be sarcastic about others' contributions, please do so aloud to yourself at home. You can say whatever you want there.

Here, however, we ask that you add something of value. You clearly have thoughts on the matter, so please share them rather than disparaging other members.

The "lmao" gave that post a tone I didn't intend.

But I figure people know where I'm getting at. To articulate further, I'm criticizing the notion that there should be an in-universe justification for this that specifically involves him being an untrained family man. It's lousy reasoning because he can actually be written as an untrained family man who has actually become stronger due to his unique power. For instance, what if his power actually never stopped growing after the Old Kai unlocked it, eliminating the need of conventional training? That can be a thing.

Generally, the question shouldn't even be "how did he lose his powers?" but "why did they choose to make him a pansy?" The only real justification is they wanted him out of the spotlight. Plain and simple. If it's not in this movie or the special book that some audience members will receive, there will never be an official in-universe explanation.

It's the in-universe section. People are looking for in-universe sections. Try your best?

[Rocketman]

It's the in-universe section. People are looking for in-universe sections. Try your best?

Goku sucked the Mystic out of him with the god ritual.

[Saiga]

In-universe Toriyama did it.

[fadeddreams5]

No clue why I thought this was the general board for a second. Oopsies...

It's the in-universe section. People are looking for in-universe sections. Try your best?

Goku sucked the Mystic out of him with the god ritual.

But I'll go with this in-universe explanation.

[singsing]

It's the in-universe section. People are looking for in-universe sections. Try your best?

Goku sucked the Mystic out of him with the god ritual.

Head-canon.

[dario03]

Sorry if this has been covered (haven't kept up on a lot of new movie stuff) but could Gohan have also become a SSG? Have they covered if others got the power up? Maybe he got the power up too but isn't as powerful as Godku and can't turn SS after absorbing SSG because reasons (like being out of practice).
And if not, why hasn't he become a SSG? If you can just keep the power why not just have all of the saiyans try to have it?

[Rocketman]

And if not, why hasn't he become a SSG? If you can just keep the power why not just have all of the saiyans try to have it?

Maybe you don't understand that this is Goku Time.

[dbzfan7]

It's the in-universe section. People are looking for in-universe sections. Try your best?

Goku sucked the Mystic out of him with the god ritual.

I thought we agreed on blood ritual sacrifice.

[Hitiro]

Sorry if this has been covered (haven't kept up on a lot of new movie stuff) but could Gohan have also become a SSG? Have they covered if others got the power up? Maybe he got the power up too but isn't as powerful as Godku and can't turn SS after absorbing SSG because reasons (like being out of practice).
And if not, why hasn't he become a SSG? If you can just keep the power why not just have all of the saiyans try to have it?

If anything Gohan should be an even stronger SSJGod than Goku. Toriyama said in an interview that how strong you would become in SSJGod would vary on how strong you were.

Is it possible that other Saiyans will be able to become [Super Saiyan] God in the future?

Of course. However, strength will vary depending on the battle power of the Saiyan who becomes [Super Saiyan] God.

So it's literally like any SSJ transformation. The higher the battle power of a character the better the outcome when they transform.

[dario03]

Maybe ultimate doesn't carry over into SSG or something. He probably isn't a SSG, but it just seems weird to not try since there seems to be no downside. Unless a SSG can not help make a new SSG and they just ran out of Saiyans.

And if not, why hasn't he become a SSG? If you can just keep the power why not just have all of the saiyans try to have it?

Maybe you don't understand that this is Goku Time.

But.... GT isn't even in the title.
And having them all be SSG but Goku still the strongest despite the fact that Gohan was stronger pre ritual would also work for Goku Time.

[Tectorman]

If anything Gohan should be an even stronger SSJGod than Goku. Toriyama said in an interview that how strong you would become in SSJGod would vary on how strong you were.

Is it possible that other Saiyans will be able to become [Super Saiyan] God in the future?

Of course. However, strength will vary depending on the battle power of the Saiyan who becomes [Super Saiyan] God.

So it's literally like any SSJ transformation. The higher the battle power of a character the better the outcome when they transform.

Yeah, but what would the SSJG transformation run off of?

Gohan's Ultimate power-up allowed him great power in what appears to be his base form. Maybe it acts like a transformation, or maybe it's like Kaioken. Maybe it's a power-up that can be accessed or not, or maybe it permanently increased his base.

But how does that work with the God ritual? Goku went from "Base" to "Base x God". Would Gohan go from "Base" to "Base x God" or would it be "Base x Ultimate x God"? All of Goku's other transformations had their power subsumed into God Mode, so would Gohan's Ultimate get the same treatment or not?

And if it does still run off Gohan's Base and not his Base x Ultimate, then it raises the question of how strong Gohan's theoretical (or still extant) Base is?

And the last we heard about that was right before the Elder Kai was released. Gohan was rated as much stronger than before, but not necessarily enough to beat Buu (at the time, referring to Fat Buu). My personal theory is that Gohan had definitely retrained all the way up to his old Cell Games strength, he'd probably even gotten as strong as Goku and Vegeta, and I think it possible that Goku could've helped him to reacquire the ability to use SSJ2.

Maybe (they certainly had the time; Gohan didn't spend all the time exclusively training with the sword, and I can't imagine Goku going to the trouble of showing SSJ3 to his son and not also giving Gohan some pointers on how to use SSJ2 via training (the way he and Vegeta learned) instead of the intuitive method Gohan was using). Not that it really matters.

[gojirason]

The way I see it, there was never any real problem in the first place, and it was sort of implied this would happen from the start.

Gohan's had his potential drawn out before. Goku has too. They've all reached the natural "saiyan limits", limits that would have applied to them.

And what happened each time? Whenever they reached a new level of power, they seemed to literally develop further potential as they actualized it, and grew stronger than they should have been able to become if the potential release worked as described.

Super Saiyan draws out inner potential. This is pretty much confirmed fact, given how it has to work by necessity, various implications, and the Mystic process itself as we see Gohan gradually lose super saiyan as his potential is drawn out.

As a result? There was nothing more to draw out when the ritual was completed. So he couldn't against Buu. But later?

As his body adjusted to the newfound power it would theoretically be capable of more. Over time his potential would grow. He could become a super saiyan again. I don't necessarily think this means he suddenly gets 50x as powerful, sort of like how SSJ Post Ritual Goku doesn't seem to grow 50x over against Beerus, (of course I have my ideas about how all of that works) however, just that it's drawing out power that he can't use otherwise.

It's not the right way to do things, in Old Kaioshin's words, but that's where Gohan's lax lifestyle comes in. He doesn't push himself to the limit constantly, so if he wants that power, he has to brute force it by transforming his body.

As a result, Goku, who previously resorted to changing his body more and more to bring out more and more hidden power, starts veering away from Super Saiyan, and Gohan starts needing it again. Over time, Goku's SSJ gets less effective and Gohan's gets more effective. It's not so much a "fuck Gohan, Goku time" in my eyes as the natural consequence of events and implied information.

Well, either that or Gohan stopped believing in himself after Beerus whooped his ass in one hit. "Become a Super Saiyan and believe in yourself" after all.

[Kamiccolo9]

I mean, the first time Gohan goes "ultimate," the old Kaioshin tells him to "Do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai."
That last part alone makes it a different process than going Super Saiyan, and there is nothing that says he can't go Super Saiyan anymore.

So, any contradiction that this brings up is made up by fans. The actual story doesn't suggest it.

[Rocketman]

I mean, the first time Gohan goes "ultimate," the old Kaioshin tells him to "Do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai."
That last part alone makes it a different process than going Super Saiyan, and there is nothing that says he can't go Super Saiyan anymore.

So, any contradiction that this brings up is made up by fans. The actual story doesn't suggest it.

So why didn't he when he was fighting Buutenks.

[Kamiccolo9]

I mean, the first time Gohan goes "ultimate," the old Kaioshin tells him to "Do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai."
That last part alone makes it a different process than going Super Saiyan, and there is nothing that says he can't go Super Saiyan anymore.

So, any contradiction that this brings up is made up by fans. The actual story doesn't suggest it.

So why didn't he when he was fighting Buutenks.

Maybe they don't stack? I dunno.

Out of universe, "Ultimate" was the new hotness, and there wasn't enough time to use both before getting Goku back in charge of everything.

[Hitiro]

So why didn't he when he was fighting Buutenks.

If the SSJ transformation draws on your hidden power and the "Mystic" form draws out your hidden power way past your limits it makes sense that SSJ would be useless because it would have no hidden power to draw on. The Daizenshuu says that SSJ3 brings out the hidden power of the individual to its limits. With the "Mystic" form bringing out your hidden power way past your limits there is no need for a form that is capped at your limits to be used.

[Kishido]

No matter that the the whole Mystic stuff is broken right now..

The whole quote in Bulma's blog makes no sense... If he went Super Saiyan in the ritual at Battle of Gods... Or have he forgotton how it goes after a year?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I mean, the first time Gohan goes "ultimate," the old Kaioshin tells him to "Do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai."
That last part alone makes it a different process than going Super Saiyan, and there is nothing that says he can't go Super Saiyan anymore.

So, any contradiction that this brings up is made up by fans. The actual story doesn't suggest it.

So why didn't he when he was fighting Buutenks.

Because Ultimate is stronger than Super Saiyan?

[Saitou Hajime]

I mean, the first time Gohan goes "ultimate," the old Kaioshin tells him to "Do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai."
That last part alone makes it a different process than going Super Saiyan, and there is nothing that says he can't go Super Saiyan anymore.

So, any contradiction that this brings up is made up by fans. The actual story doesn't suggest it.

Aren't there plenty of SSJ transformations with a kiai thrown in, especially the first time ones like the Ultimate transformation was? And in movie 13, Gohan doesn't shout at all and snap transforms into Ultimate like he would as a SSJ.