If you took the nostalgia out, would you still like DB?

[TheAldella]

I think the animation holds up very well today, and the fillers are better than many of today's filler. At least DB doesn't have extremely long filler arcs like Naruto (I guess you and your friends loved the 80 filler episodes in a row in Naruto). The only significantly-long filler arc in DB is the Garlic Jr. arc, which is only like 10 episodes long. And I have to strongly disagree with your statement that the writing is "meh". In my opinion, DB is a much better series than today's shounen.

No. No, we really did not love those 83 or so episodes straight.

On the more talent-based episodes, sure, DBZ holds up well. GT holds up pretty well, too. The original Dragon Ball had almost nothing going for it in that regard. The first time I noticed the art was in the episode where Goku saved Tien from Drum? I think that was the henchmen; don't really remember. Also, you might wanna go watch the Power/Chikara arc in Shippuden. That one was a home run for a filler. As was the Kakashi ANBU one. Also, one of the strongest points that you've disregarded:
Most-to-All of Naruto filler is separate from the canon material. You can Skip it. Dragon Ball EMBEDDED it's filler, making it a chore to blow through. Formulaic Gohan training, (though the Piccolo relationship expansion was nice) was mostly skip-able, but what about ChiChi cutaways, Crab battles, unneeded scenery shots, extended prolonged and time-slot filler shot holding, reused fight animation, super saiyan 2 theories because they never did lightning, Ginyu body switching with Bulma, Inside Buu's body, etc etc?
And let's not forget Toei's absurd blunders on adapting.
Piccolo not being behind the house
Literally not animating Zarbon telling Vegeta that Frieza can transform
Vegito's fight being completely reconstructed

The only good fillers I can recall in Dragon Ball are the Gohan birthday episode and what happened with Tao Pai Pai.
I could go on for a lot longer about this absurd adaptation...
Let's be straight; they could both use reboots.

Thank all that is good in the world for Dragon Ball Kai.

[Akyon]

Honestly?

After One Piece has frankly spoilt me with a cast who all get moments to shine including those who 'can't catch up'(Usopp, Nami, Chopper), all with unique fighting styles and tons of imagination put into powers, Dragonball probably wouldn't be held in quite as high regard with the way the weaker cast members get thrown to the wayside and everyone's fighting techniques are essentially all the same; everyone can fly, everyone can shoot ki blasts, everyone has at least on giant ki cannon attack; Kamehameha, Gallick Gun, Masenko, Neo Tri Beam, etc. Compare and contrast with the Straw Hats, or even the cast of Naruto who (nearly) all use Chakra but use it in a variety of different and unique ways that gives each character their unique feel.

As it is Dragonball for me is loved still because I adore the cast. I just wish most of them (anyone who doesn't have saiyan blood) weren't deemed totally worthless and barely get to do anything post mid-Cell arc.

[Hellspawn28]

I think the animation holds up very well today, and the fillers are better than many of today's filler. At least DB doesn't have extremely long filler arcs like Naruto (I guess you and your friends loved the 80 filler episodes in a row in Naruto). The only significantly-long filler arc in DB is the Garlic Jr. arc, which is only like 10 episodes long.

Well Naruto and DBZ fillers are created on not getting ahead of the manga. I'm pretty sure DBZ and Naruto had different time schedules on which manga chapters that were originally produced. Toei was likely more ahead when it comes to animating manga chapters compare to Pierrot (unless I'm wrong). Not to mention that Naruto also ran much longer then Dragon Ball did too.

[ABED]

Anyways, Dragon Ball! I actually look back at some scenes from the Funi Dub, and like them better than Kai, even now. The 20x Kaio ken scene, in particular. I love it when Goku says, "I don't care if you're a million times stronger than me! Mark my words, I'm not letting them down!" >.>

Of course, now I realize this heroic side of Goku wasn't even present in the manga.

You don't think Goku fighting Freeza was heroic unless he says something like that?

[fadeddreams5]

Anyways, Dragon Ball! I actually look back at some scenes from the Funi Dub, and like them better than Kai, even now. The 20x Kaio ken scene, in particular. I love it when Goku says, "I don't care if you're a million times stronger than me! Mark my words, I'm not letting them down!" >.>

Of course, now I realize this heroic side of Goku wasn't even present in the manga.

You don't think Goku fighting Freeza was heroic unless he says something like that?

I mean, to me, Goku has always been heroic, but I found out recently that Toriyama did not really want him to be viewed as heroic, selfless, and self-righteous as he is in the movies and parts like this in the anime. Apparently, most of that scene was fabricated. Goku never had a flashback about his loved ones in the manga.

[Doctor.]

He didn't and he never had the speech right before using the Kaioken either. He just hoped Freeza wasn't bluffing and fired it off.

Regardless, he stated at the start of the fight, he was fighting for the sake of his friends, the Saiyans and the Nameks. You don't need it to be in your face all the time to know what Goku's reasons to fight are.

[Lord Beerus]

I mean, to me, Goku has always been heroic, but I found out recently that Toriyama did not really want him to be viewed as heroic, selfless, and self-righteous as he is in the movies and parts like this in the anime. Apparently, most of that scene was fabricated. Goku never had a flashback about his loved ones in the manga.

I honestly love the fact that Goku is much less heroic and morally self conscious like most shonen protagonists are these days. It really sets him apart from the rest, and make his character all the more unique and special.

He didn't and he never had the speech right before using the Kaioken either. He just hoped Freeza wasn't bluffing and fired it off.

Regardless, he stated at the start of the fight, he was fighting for the sake of his friends, the Saiyans and the Nameks. You don't need it to be in your face all the time to know what Goku's reasons to fight are.

That is a huge problem the many shonen anime and manga have these days; the hero constantly reminding the audience, to the point of tedium, who he/she stands for, why he/she fight for they are, what he/she represents etc. Naruto, Fairy Tail and One Piece are all big time offenders of this. And ironically, they are all manga influenced by Dragon Ball, and have the protagonists all inspired heavily from Goku. Who's not even that heroic and morally standard in the first place. Hell, Goku at times can arguably even be a bit anti-heroic.

[ABED]

It depends on what you consider heroism. Does he have to be like Superman to be heroic? No. Goku enjoys his life, pushes himself to be his best, is kind, and fights to protect himself and those whom he loves. That's heroism. Sure, Goku has his faults, but they aren't out of malice. Anti-Hero makes him sound like The Punisher or Travis Bickle.

[fadeddreams5]

I didn't mean to turn this into a debate about Goku's heroism. I used that word cause Toriyama referred to Goku's anime counterpart as a "righteous hero," which is something he claimed he was dissatisfied with. -.-

All I said was I prefer that scene (and Goku's attitude in it) better in the Funi Dub than in Kai or the manga.

[Tatakae!!Ramenman]

I would definitely still like DBZ, but I don't know about dragon ball before Tao Pai Pai or piccolo.

[garnetjester]

To be honest, I'd probably only like the Dragon Ball part because it was light hearted and full of adventure. I have never even wanted to watch Naruto or Fairy Tail or other shonen in that vein, so I would probably have skipped everything about Z.

I think the best asset DB has is its characters, they are all very charismatic in their own way, and full of flaws, which makes them not as boring as a lot of straightforward Earth-saving shonen stuff. I'm a huge Dr. Slump fan, so all of the occasional ridiculousness of the cast would've certainly appealed to me I think.

[Lord Beerus]

It depends on what you consider heroism. Does he have to be like Superman to be heroic? No. Goku enjoys his life, pushes himself to be his best, is kind, and fights to protect himself and those whom he loves. That's heroism. Sure, Goku has his faults, but they aren't out of malice. Anti-Hero makes him sound like The Punisher or Travis Bickle.

I didn't mean anti hero in that way. I meant more like a classical anti-hero. Like a guy who flaws in his personality can cause more harm those around than it should.

[rereboy]

It depends on what you consider heroism. Does he have to be like Superman to be heroic? No. Goku enjoys his life, pushes himself to be his best, is kind, and fights to protect himself and those whom he loves. That's heroism. Sure, Goku has his faults, but they aren't out of malice. Anti-Hero makes him sound like The Punisher or Travis Bickle.

He was talking about stereotypical hero-like attitude and heroism, and his point was clear to me.

[ABED]

It depends on what you consider heroism. Does he have to be like Superman to be heroic? No. Goku enjoys his life, pushes himself to be his best, is kind, and fights to protect himself and those whom he loves. That's heroism. Sure, Goku has his faults, but they aren't out of malice. Anti-Hero makes him sound like The Punisher or Travis Bickle.

<br abp="688"><br abp="689">He was talking about stereotypical hero-like attitude and heroism, and his point was clear to me.

Great, but it's not nearly as clear from the posts as you claim. Case in point...

"Goku, Who's not even that heroic and morally standard in the first place."

I get what he means now, but not immediately from his original choice of words.

[chizzielamer]

I loved Dragon Ball when I was young, I stopped for a good 5-8 years or so where I was more into stuff like Bleach or Naruto. But its something alluring about DB that got me right back into it and now I'm hooked. Maybe its how we can see ourselves in the cast, or how inspiring they are, yet feel so real at the same time.

[ABED]

Yes, it's not about nostalgia for me. I've seen plenty of things I enjoyed as a kid and thought "Why did I ever think this was good?" (e.g. Clarissa Explains It All) Dragon Ball isn't one of them.

[rereboy]

Great, but it's not nearly as clear from the posts as you claim. Case in point...

"Goku, Who's not even that heroic and morally standard in the first place."

I get what he means now, but not immediately from his original choice of words.

He never said that sentence.

He said in his first post: "The 20x Kaio ken scene, in particular. I love it when Goku says, "I don't care if you're a million times stronger than me! Mark my words, I'm not letting them down!" >.> Of course, now I realize this heroic side of Goku wasn't even present in the manga."

Imo, it was clear, particularly from what I left in bold, that he is not saying that the original Goku isn't heroic, just that he doesn't have this kind of heroism, which happens to be stereotypical.

And his following post just demonstrates this further: "I mean, to me, Goku has always been heroic, but I found out recently that Toriyama did not really want him to be viewed as heroic, selfless, and self-righteous as he is in the movies and parts like this in the anime."

In short, I'm just saying that a debate regarding heroism is unneeded since what he meant his clear enough, imo.

[TripleRach]

I have plenty of nostalgia for Dragon Ball, but no, I would not say it's a deciding factor in my overall enjoyment. I was fairly old when I first got into the series, so it definitely isn't some silly thing from my childhood like 80s Thundercats and Ninja Turtles.

I've also shed all ties to the first version of the series I watched (English dub). Actually, that's a thing I do with other franchises too when bad translations are involved. Nostalgia always loses that battle with me.

Anyway, I like Dragon Ball because I enjoy the characters and story. Sometimes I just want to look up a specific quote or scene, and I accidentally read or watch much more than I intended.

[ABED]

Okay, this issue isn't about what one person said. I can't remember off the top of my head who said what between fadeddreams and lord beerus.

And you're the one adding emphasis, but it's not immediately apparent what he means by "this". If you understood what he meant, good for you. And yes, I got it later when whoever explained and clarified their statement.

[dougo13]

Not really. Everytime I read or watch the series again I like it less and less each time.

Still interested in the new material though, so I keep around.

If you're reading something over and over you're bound to get bored of it.

Speak for yourself! I still love the works of Tolkien and have been reading and enjoying them since 1971. Ditto with the work of authors like Robert E. Howard, H.P. Lovecraft, S.M. Stirling, C. S. Lewis, and tons more. There are certain films I pull out and watch over and over again and still enjoy them, like "The Trilogy"(A Fist Full of Dollars, For A Few Dollars More and The Good, The Bad and the Ugly [my favourite western]), One Armed Boxer vs. The Master of the Flying Guillotine, King Boxer (5 Fingers of Death), Enter The Dragon, Kelly's Heroes, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, etc. I watch these over and over again and don't get bored at all...