A pamphlet from around the time ROF was released re-instates the concept that "if a Saiyan with a power of a Super Saiyan God turns Super Saiyan" the Saiyan will turn "Super Saiyan Blue", and not mere Super Saiyans anymore. The only logical implication, if you are to assume Goku can turn regular Super Saiyan, is ironically that Goku could turn his power on and off. I don't believe it's fair to use terms such as "pretending", since the theory has at least some ground in what was previously established. Arguing whether it's indirect relevancy to the current state of affairs was intended or not is another thing entirely, and I can understand the criticism in that case.Isn't sbg just a term from dbh that people use to describe Goku and be default Vegeta's base form during RoF being SSJG, but its not actually a separate form altogether. In that case why would Goku not be able to alter his power level at will in his base form then or is it something else where people pretend Goku and Vegeta can turn on and off god ki like a switch for their non-god forms?
Then you should also have no issue with assuming the existence of a Saiyan Beyond God doesn't automatically break the narrative; when you reflect about it, the criticism is more or less the same. "It seems natural, it didn't happen in the story, is it broken?".Actually, I would assume he can't
I believe every time Goku fights after he unlocks Super Saiyan and such could easily qualify. Perhaps I didn't explain myself adequately.Could you actually give some examples and the context behind it that shows what you are suggesting and include Vegeta as well since he's in the same boat as Goku.
* Fights against Kid Buu: he admits he missed his window of opportunity because he took it too easy.
* Fights against Beerus. Starts with Super Saiyan instead of Super Saiyan 3.
* Fights against Freeza, Frost and Copy Vegeta. Starts in base instead of Blue.
* Fights against the copy villains: uses base, Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 3, instead of Blue.
* Fights against Bergamo, uses bases and Super Saiyan instead of Blue.
* Vegeta fights against Magetta, instead of turning Blue he tries to beat the opponent in Super Saiyan.
In general, Goku matches his opponent whenever possibile. It's become nothing short of his patented M.O; Super's especially making this a very pivotal thing whenever Goku fights, albeit I could agree on some point that it does constitute artificial drama.
Not to my knowledge or, well, not in particular. It's just ROF's form treated like a transformation which yields a higher power-up than Super Saiyan 1/2/3; interestingly, it's slightly weaker than Super Saiyan God though.Not that dbh has any bearing on canon, but I'm curious, do they ever explain why it boosts Goku's base over his SSJ form?
I was not mentioning Freeza for any reason other than giving you a bit of food for thought. Do note that while possible this is still extrapolation, though. What's outright stated is only that Freeza had reached a serene mind through that training, which enabled him to overcome his stamina issues with the Golden form. Goku does refer to him as "stronger" after he's informed of this, but the "stronger" tidbit is most likely in reference to his additional stamina, given that it's, well, staying at 100% for as long as he wants instead of seconds is obviously gonna make him drastically "stronger", or "more powerful". While in Hell, Freeza could not move, and he had previously implied he needed to "train" like a normal person to get stronger. His "unmatched strength and perfect control" statement is in reference to the fact he can control his Golden form without issue now. It doesn't really come off as a natural conclusion to think he meant some "I can train while not moving" thing. Somewhat like the two-base affair's criticism, if you may.I believe Freeza is outright stated to have gotten stronger due to his mental training in hell in conjunction with his perfect energy control skills.
And not only that. Even accepting that his meditation had some counter-intuitive effect (for the viewer) like increasing Freeza's available ki pool, which I'll stress is not what Freeza directly stated, it's also not said that this "mental training" made his native form stronger as well.
A lot of people will give you their take on what SBG is; however, the common denominator is just that the base Saiyans will be stronger than SS3 and weaker than Blue.Isn't SBG just his base form at the same level or higher than SSJG and not actually a separate form? If so then why would that waste Goku's stamina. Now, if you're treating it as a separate form as in Goku is turning SSJG on and off like a switch in his base form then we need to clear up some things then.
What in the world is Goku's SSJ at the end of BoG then, Beeruz mentioned he fully merged SSJG itself into his being and made it his own when Goku questioned he hasn't gotten any weaker and is still at the same level despite losing the form itself. Since SSJ Goku = SSJG, did he lose this level considering his SSJ form from the end of BoGs and his base form from RoF are no where near that level post-RoF as shown by his base and SSJ identical in level to Gohan in his Saiyaman get up (Episode 75 I think, somewhere in the 70s since it takes place post Zamasu saga).
This same Gohan was shown stronger than the wolf brother he fought as a SSJ and his SSJ 1-2 forms are stated to be inferior in power to the level he had against Super Bui (Ultimate Gohan) during the Buu saga meaning Goku's base and SSJ 1-2 forms are also inferior to Ultimate Gohan as well. Goku and Vegeta's base are shown struggling Againdy the wolf brothers and having to turn SSJ and yet the wolf brothers are shown at time keeping pace with them so their SSJ is no stronger than Gohan's SSJ during the exhibition match which is inferior to his Ultimate form.
It appears Goku and Vegeta simply lost the level their base and SSJ forms were at during BoGs and RoF meaning Freeza has been retcon to a similar level then.
I think you are nevertheless completely correct in saying Goku's strength and Gohan's is portrayed as vastly different levels. You could simply see the two-base theory as some in-universe patchwork, entirely fanmade but with some root in the available material. Maybe this could help you understand at least part of the dynamic behind it, I suppose. Some people just like to rationalize things following that type of approach; others will simply not bother and say that the writer's hand mudded the waters.
In other words, I whole-heartedly agree with you when you say that a retcon certainly took place, but if I were to keep it in-universe I'd be kind of forced to say that the base form seen at some point is very different than what's shown at some other.