GT vs Super [POLL]

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by YamiGoku » Sun May 06, 2018 9:26 pm

Bullza wrote:Super is very obviously the better show in every single possible way.

GT is just complete and utter garbage from start to finish. Except for the music and the last few minutes there isn't anything that is good about the show.

It's childish beyond belief, the characters, particularly Pan are some of the worst characters in anime, the story has decent ideas but then executes them all horrifically, the animation sucks and there's no good fights in a series known for its fighting.

It is widely known as a terrible show for a reason.

You know how Bio Broly is a crappy movie? Well GT is essentially an entire series that is consistently worse than that movie.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 06, 2018 9:39 pm

Bullza wrote:Super is very obviously the better show in every single possible way.

GT is just complete and utter garbage from start to finish. Except for the music and the last few minutes there isn't anything that is good about the show.

It's childish beyond belief, the characters, particularly Pan are some of the worst characters in anime, the story has decent ideas but then executes them all horrifically, the animation sucks and there's no good fights in a series known for its fighting.

It is widely known as a terrible show for a reason.

You know how Bio Broly is a crappy movie? Well GT is essentially an entire series that is consistently worse than that movie.
Super is more childish than GT. In fact, GT's themes were consistently serious all throughout. I will admit, the worst thing about GT is the lack of animation, because there is not much animation in it in the first place.

As for Super?

The first two arc retellings are unbearable, from start to finish. They added nothing to the series and in fact drag it down as a whole much worse than the Black-star Dragon ball search, which for those who watched and appreciate OG DB is actually quite bearable.

The U6 vs. U7 arc was boring up until Hit vs. Goku.

The F. Trunks arc was riddled with stupidity, character regression, and some of the worst asspulls of the series. The finale with the random Spirit sword and Zeno erase button were just distasteful.

The fact that Super turned the ToP into a clown fiesta where most of the tension was fake, the character struggle was fake, and the ending was completely predictable just goes to show how childish that arc was from start to finish.

This is a matter of preference, but I think Sumitomo's music pales in comparison to Tokinaga's and Kikuchi's. The latter define quintessential DB for me.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Bullza » Sun May 06, 2018 10:34 pm

Rakurai wrote:The first two arc retellings are unbearable, from start to finish.
Well see this the main thing right here. The first two sagas are unbearable. Meanwhile the complete entirety of Dragon Ball GT is unbearable.

If the movies are just retelling then naturally they wouldn't add anything that they didn't already add before.
The U6 vs. U7 arc was boring up until Hit vs. Goku.
This again, same as before. It was boring up until a certain point, then it stopped being boring for at least some period of time. Dragon Ball GT was always boring, it never had an "up until". Whereas Super actually had some very good and exciting fights here and there, GT never had a single good fight, not one in 64 episodes.

Just that Hit vs Goku fight you mention alone is better than anything that ever happened in GT.
Super is more childish than GT.
GT is extremely childish, that involved childish character designs and episodes with Dolltaki and his obsession little child dolls.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

An episode with tranny Trunks where he dressed up as a woman in order to get married to some whale pig monster.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

And then them dancing around....Goku, everyone's favourite lovable badass....as a little kid doing some little conga dance and that done in a funny way like Vegeta doing the bingo dance, this is just depressing to watch.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Rakurai » Mon May 07, 2018 12:02 am

Bullza wrote:...
I don't know if you're clouded by blind GT hate or anything, because saying it was entirely boring throughout is a gross exaggeration. But you're entitled to your opinion which is fine. I found Super not only unbearable, boring at times, but also a slap in the face to longtime fans who wanted a proper progression of characters, not regression or caricatures of themselves. Though Super anime was in reality a cash cow created haphazardly to sell more toys, it didn't have to feel like it but it egregiously did with the amount of fanservice behind it.

These kinds of antics are reminiscent of OG DB, which Black star saga was trying to emulate. If you haven't seen OG DB, ofc they're going to feel like that. Super has the same "issues," from Pan shenanigans to inseult-prone choo-choo bots to Arale poop gags to magical girl BS (Male Kamikaze fireballs smh). Hell, even Z had them, from Goku imitating Bubbles when he arrived to King Kai's planet, to the Great Saiyaman, to Majin Buu's character, to the fusion dance itself.

SSJ4 Goku vs Baby Vegeta is a far, far more memorable fight to me than Goku vs Hit. Anything in Super, really. The execution and demonstration of SSJ4 Goku's superiority over Baby Vegeta's was just simply one of the best. Flashy animations aren't always the deciding factor for me at least.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Bullza » Mon May 07, 2018 1:24 am

Rakurai wrote:I don't know if you're clouded by blind GT hate or anything, because saying it was entirely boring throughout is a gross exaggeration.
The only moments of any real interest are when the characters transform for the first time, like Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Vegeta, Gogeta, Golden Great Ape but then nothing exciting follows it.

I get that it was trying to emulate the original Dragon Ball at the beginning but that was a huge mistake in itself. It started as a gag series and became a fairly intense action series, it grew up with the fans. You can't go back after all that time. Dragon Ball wasn't even that popular at the start, it was only once the Tournaments started did it become popular. So the whole part with them on the adventure to find the balls wasn't popular and that's what GT decided to go with.

The issues you mention for Super aren't really the same because Pan is a baby and does appropriates things and the Magical Girls were a parody. Goku dressing as a woman worked because he was a 12 year old naive kid and they spent a matter of minutes on it. Trunks is in his 20's and they've got him doing it and wearing lipstick and spending a whole episode on it.

You mention the writing and the ass pulls but the series always had that anyway. Z probably has even worse ass pulls. Gotenks Buu comes around, too strong for everyone, Goku needs to fuse with someone to win but hold on Gohan doesn't know the fusion dance, that never happened in the plot so what happens?

"Oh don't worry! It just so happens I've been wearing these magical earrings the whole time and if you put them on you'll fuse together, how convenient right?"

Imagine if that never happened and at the end of the Tournament of Power, Beerus took off his shoes and threw them at Goku and Vegeta, Goku put one shoe on the left foot and Vegeta put the one shoe on the right foot, then they fused together and made Jiren look like a complete chump. Just think of the shit storm that would cause with fans, the writing and ass pull complaints. Nobody bats an eye when it's done in Z but Trunks, a Saiyan, gets angry and powers up and "That's an ass pull that is!"

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by AnimeMaakuo » Mon May 07, 2018 2:02 am

Rakurai wrote:
Bullza wrote:...
I don't know if you're clouded by blind GT hate or anything, because saying it was entirely boring throughout is a gross exaggeration. But you're entitled to your opinion which is fine. I found Super not only unbearable, boring at times, but also a slap in the face to longtime fans who wanted a proper progression of characters, not regression or caricatures of themselves. Though Super anime was in reality a cash cow created haphazardly to sell more toys, it didn't have to feel like it but it egregiously did with the amount of fanservice behind it.

These kinds of antics are reminiscent of OG DB, which Black star saga was trying to emulate. If you haven't seen OG DB, ofc they're going to feel like that. Super has the same "issues," from Pan shenanigans to inseult-prone choo-choo bots to Arale poop gags to magical girl BS (Male Kamikaze fireballs smh). Hell, even Z had them, from Goku imitating Bubbles when he arrived to King Kai's planet, to the Great Saiyaman, to Majin Buu's character, to the fusion dance itself.

SSJ4 Goku vs Baby Vegeta is a far, far more memorable fight to me than Goku vs Hit. Anything in Super, really. The execution and demonstration of SSJ4 Goku's superiority over Baby Vegeta's was just simply one of the best. Flashy animations aren't always the deciding factor for me at least.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by sangofe » Mon May 07, 2018 2:08 am

Vijay wrote:
sangofe wrote:
Vijay wrote:GT by a mile. At least as far as entertainment goes

Super's Ep 131 was epic. Dats bout it. Maybe I'll watch some Yuya Takahashi episodes in Youtube. But that doesnt mean I'd give Super a shot. Its so.....cringy. Even Black Goku Arc, considered best Super Arc seems manipulative & derivative.

GT's 1st & Final Arc were horrendrous in terms of pacing & animation. But Baby & Super 17 makes-up for them. Also, it had cool OP & ED. So yeah!
Super by a mile! Much better fights. My exciting characters. An amazing Black arc. Some glorious episodes. The only better thing GT had was consistent art.
Um, dats cool & stuff. But why did ya quote me? I think except "by a mile" none of your points seem to give me the impression of getting into an arguement/discussion

But I'd say GT has far more credit to it than mere "consistent art". In fact, its by far most inconsistent with various animators working on even single scene which starts as far as GT's ep 1 that Ajay has discussed in his Youtube Channel on 1st April

1. GT got the 90's vibe which resonates more as compared to glitzy Super

2. GT's attempt into going DB-esque (which backfired & TOEI thankfully learned) followed by Z's hardcore action gave fans what they wanted. Call it fan-service. But SSJ4 Goku/SSJ4 Vegeta, Shadow Dragons were quite solid plot-devices to move past Z. Somethin Super sorely missed specially considerin how all events of Super's supposed to lead into EoZ which is nothin but....insane...You acheive God, followed by level beyond God, then whole nother league of Mastered Ultra Instinct that could strike fear into even Gods of Destruction & all outta sudden fly away with Uub just to train....it simply doesnt sit-well with Goku's characterization

3. Beg to differ on fights. If Super's 30 seconds of "atatatatatata" with blurring fists on-screen is considered good for ya, GT's God-like on that aspect. Unlike those blurring punches, GT emphasizes on every hits. Ex: Base Goku vs General Rildo, SSJ4Goku vs Baby Vegeta/Super 17/Omega were such satisfying classic DBZ "beat-em-up" action

4. GT's OP & ED. Enuf said....
I honestly don't think GT feels anything like Z.
GT has slow fights and the characters feel and act weak. That's not the case in Z. Goku had to turn ssj to hold a building up? The hell? Hell, it feels like we're back to DB when it comes to powers. In super the fights are super fast and there is quite some varied fights. I re watched GT alongside super so I know what I'm saying.

Also, I like super's openings and i also like gt's. All in all Super is way more exciting but I liked the m2 and Baby arc. Everything else in GT was pretty crappy.

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon May 07, 2018 3:18 am

Robo4900 wrote: Oh, are we pasting in out of context single clips/pieces that could easily be selected to show the best or worst of whatever we're talking about so we can use one tiny piece of something as a counterpoint to a statement about an entire work?

Oh goody!

And while I'm at it...

Seriously. You're allowed to have a different opinion, and I enjoy debating the artistic merit of the shows in question, but I suggest you either make your points well, or don't make them at all.
What out of context man, you said crap animation, I can also find some very crap animation in Z what's the point doing that,
I am now suspecting you didn't watch past the retellings lol

There is more great animation scenes from Super but I took the most recent ones so you see what is up to date and what is to come. You know, I was part of the Super hate crowd when it just aired, but as the show went on it improved with time, and I was happy about that. Not only the animation, but also the artstyle. If you refuse to acknowledge great DB scenes when you see them, I can only think that's sad. Basically what just happened is I show you some great scenes, and you reply "Muh but look how ugly it was 100 episodes ago!". Dude, weak.

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Vijay » Mon May 07, 2018 3:56 am

sangofe wrote:
Vijay wrote:
sangofe wrote:
Super by a mile! Much better fights. My exciting characters. An amazing Black arc. Some glorious episodes. The only better thing GT had was consistent art.
Um, dats cool & stuff. But why did ya quote me? I think except "by a mile" none of your points seem to give me the impression of getting into an arguement/discussion

But I'd say GT has far more credit to it than mere "consistent art". In fact, its by far most inconsistent with various animators working on even single scene which starts as far as GT's ep 1 that Ajay has discussed in his Youtube Channel on 1st April

1. GT got the 90's vibe which resonates more as compared to glitzy Super

2. GT's attempt into going DB-esque (which backfired & TOEI thankfully learned) followed by Z's hardcore action gave fans what they wanted. Call it fan-service. But SSJ4 Goku/SSJ4 Vegeta, Shadow Dragons were quite solid plot-devices to move past Z. Somethin Super sorely missed specially considerin how all events of Super's supposed to lead into EoZ which is nothin but....insane...You acheive God, followed by level beyond God, then whole nother league of Mastered Ultra Instinct that could strike fear into even Gods of Destruction & all outta sudden fly away with Uub just to train....it simply doesnt sit-well with Goku's characterization

3. Beg to differ on fights. If Super's 30 seconds of "atatatatatata" with blurring fists on-screen is considered good for ya, GT's God-like on that aspect. Unlike those blurring punches, GT emphasizes on every hits. Ex: Base Goku vs General Rildo, SSJ4Goku vs Baby Vegeta/Super 17/Omega were such satisfying classic DBZ "beat-em-up" action

4. GT's OP & ED. Enuf said....
I honestly don't think GT feels anything like Z.
GT has slow fights and the characters feel and act weak. That's not the case in Z. Goku had to turn ssj to hold a building up? The hell? Hell, it feels like we're back to DB when it comes to powers. In super the fights are super fast and there is quite some varied fights. I re watched GT alongside super so I know what I'm saying.

Also, I like super's openings and i also like gt's. All in all Super is way more exciting but I liked the m2 and Baby arc. Everything else in GT was pretty crappy.
Correction. Goku actually turned SSJ4 to just hold a building which is......baffling

Goku as SSJ should freakin blast planets away, yet dude struggles to even hold a falling building.

I've stated my points & you did yours. Peace

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by sangofe » Mon May 07, 2018 4:55 am

Vijay wrote:
sangofe wrote:
Vijay wrote: Um, dats cool & stuff. But why did ya quote me? I think except "by a mile" none of your points seem to give me the impression of getting into an arguement/discussion

But I'd say GT has far more credit to it than mere "consistent art". In fact, its by far most inconsistent with various animators working on even single scene which starts as far as GT's ep 1 that Ajay has discussed in his Youtube Channel on 1st April

1. GT got the 90's vibe which resonates more as compared to glitzy Super

2. GT's attempt into going DB-esque (which backfired & TOEI thankfully learned) followed by Z's hardcore action gave fans what they wanted. Call it fan-service. But SSJ4 Goku/SSJ4 Vegeta, Shadow Dragons were quite solid plot-devices to move past Z. Somethin Super sorely missed specially considerin how all events of Super's supposed to lead into EoZ which is nothin but....insane...You acheive God, followed by level beyond God, then whole nother league of Mastered Ultra Instinct that could strike fear into even Gods of Destruction & all outta sudden fly away with Uub just to train....it simply doesnt sit-well with Goku's characterization

3. Beg to differ on fights. If Super's 30 seconds of "atatatatatata" with blurring fists on-screen is considered good for ya, GT's God-like on that aspect. Unlike those blurring punches, GT emphasizes on every hits. Ex: Base Goku vs General Rildo, SSJ4Goku vs Baby Vegeta/Super 17/Omega were such satisfying classic DBZ "beat-em-up" action

4. GT's OP & ED. Enuf said....
I honestly don't think GT feels anything like Z.
GT has slow fights and the characters feel and act weak. That's not the case in Z. Goku had to turn ssj to hold a building up? The hell? Hell, it feels like we're back to DB when it comes to powers. In super the fights are super fast and there is quite some varied fights. I re watched GT alongside super so I know what I'm saying.

Also, I like super's openings and i also like gt's. All in all Super is way more exciting but I liked the m2 and Baby arc. Everything else in GT was pretty crappy.
Correction. Goku actually turned SSJ4 to just hold a building which is......baffling

Goku as SSJ should freakin blast planets away, yet dude struggles to even hold a falling building.

I've stated my points & you did yours. Peace
Yeah, ssj4. That was a typo. Glad to hear you think it is rudiculous too.

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Rakurai » Mon May 07, 2018 11:47 am

Bullza wrote:
Rakurai wrote:...
Yeah, because F. Trunks not being able to take care of a baby like Pan and having to hold on to her is not childish at all either. Magical girls is childish no matter what, especially when you apply the trope to men dressed up in other weird costumes.

OG DB's charm wasn't just tournaments, it was the adventure. Idk about you but I actually enjoyed Goku going on the search for DBs while beating up the baddies along the way. Seeing new places like Jingle village and Baba's palace, beating up villains like the Red Ribbon army and King Piccolo, meeting people like Upa, etc. This is classic DB feel. This is when the DBs were still a central core theme of the show before they just became demoted to Senzu bean status.

Fusion dance and Potara are not asspulls imo. When it introduced fusion dance and Potara, they gave exposition. They had consequences. They had history behind them. They were things that belonged in a realm which we did not know beyond. When Trunks got his new transformation, nobody even bothered questioning it. They just went with it. An attempt to make F. Trunks relevant, since he should've been long outclassed by the new forms and what not. And we're supposed to believe it when worse shit has happened to him, without even so much as a hint of that transformation? Oh, and don't even get me started on that Spirit bomb sword BS. These events felt farfetched, out-of-place with no context. Just shameless fanservice. That's what Toyotaro did right imo, he made F. Trunks relevant without having to resort to shenanigans that made the audience feel like they didn't know what they were watching.
Last edited by Rakurai on Mon May 07, 2018 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by YamiGoku » Mon May 07, 2018 11:48 am

I prefer Super simply because i think it has a lot more memorable characters, moments and fights, and even if it just a retelling with some slice of life episodes, i'll watch the BOG saga over the Black Star Dragon Balls saga any day.


The only part of super i find worst that anything of GT is the RoF saga, especially the Goku Vs Frieza part.

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Rakurai » Mon May 07, 2018 11:52 am

AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Rakurai wrote:
Bullza wrote:...
I don't know if you're clouded by blind GT hate or anything, because saying it was entirely boring throughout is a gross exaggeration. But you're entitled to your opinion which is fine. I found Super not only unbearable, boring at times, but also a slap in the face to longtime fans who wanted a proper progression of characters, not regression or caricatures of themselves. Though Super anime was in reality a cash cow created haphazardly to sell more toys, it didn't have to feel like it but it egregiously did with the amount of fanservice behind it.

These kinds of antics are reminiscent of OG DB, which Black star saga was trying to emulate. If you haven't seen OG DB, ofc they're going to feel like that. Super has the same "issues," from Pan shenanigans to inseult-prone choo-choo bots to Arale poop gags to magical girl BS (Male Kamikaze fireballs smh). Hell, even Z had them, from Goku imitating Bubbles when he arrived to King Kai's planet, to the Great Saiyaman, to Majin Buu's character, to the fusion dance itself.

SSJ4 Goku vs Baby Vegeta is a far, far more memorable fight to me than Goku vs Hit. Anything in Super, really. The execution and demonstration of SSJ4 Goku's superiority over Baby Vegeta's was just simply one of the best. Flashy animations aren't always the deciding factor for me at least.
Great comment! We need to have a DBGT club. Right. Now. 8) No but seriously, where have you guys been?! Call me crazy, but it feels like a lot of the older fans in favor of DBGT left Kanzenshuu and moved on with their lives.
I'm not that crazy about GT tbh, and always found it okay, but I have come to appreciate it more since Super had arrived. I don't like the double standards that Super fans try to pull in favor of Super itself either. The only thing I give to Super is the battle animation, which is actually hampered by the 'atatatatatataatas' that plagued almost each and every scene. 'Great ideas, horrible execution' - this applies to Super just as much as it did to GT.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:17 pm

Yeah, Yeah, Super is so childish, I guess you guys skipped that episode when Zamasu took over the Multiverse and brutally murdered every innocent earthling left (even children) and everything was erased from existence, including the souls of those innocents civilians. Such a childish show, truly.

Oh, since we aknowledged that Baby is a Frieza's rip-off (or is it just a coincidence that both are alien villains who want revenge on Saiyans?), if Zamasu is a Baby's rip-off, wouldn't that automatically make him a Frieza's rip-off too? Very interesting. Screw giving new villains a chance, if they copied just a single idea from a previous antagonist, they are garbage, it couldn't possibly be otherwise!

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Professor Freeza » Mon May 07, 2018 12:23 pm

Those who voted GT dont exist in the world


Super everyday

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Robo4900 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:30 pm

Rakurai wrote:I'm not that crazy about GT tbh, and always found it okay, but I have come to appreciate it more since Super had arrived. I don't like the double standards that Super fans try to pull in favor of Super itself either. The only thing I give to Super is the battle animation, which is actually hampered by the 'atatatatatataatas' that plagued almost each and every scene. 'Great ideas, horrible execution' - this applies to Super just as much as it did to GT.
I've never understood the "Great ideas, horrible execution" criticism of GT; the Evil Dragons and Baby arcs were rather well-executed on the whole and Super #17 just straight-up wasn't a good idea(Though I thought the execution was actually exceptionally good, because it ends up being a stupid but fun little 6-episode thing between the heavier arcs it stands in the middle of. So, it's not a good arc, but given the plot they were working with, they did pretty damn well). I think the Black-Star arc is the only one you could say this about, really. And even then, it's mostly just a matter of the first 8 episodes being a bit dull, something the writers realised, and immediately course-corrected on. The original idea of the arc was very poorly-executed, but that's because they realised that the idea just doesn't work in practice, so they changed over to something else, and we got stuff like Planet M-2, and eventually, it lead into the Baby arc, which was pretty great overall.

But, even if we did go with this idea of good ideas and poor execution, as much as I agree with you that Super had poor execution on its ideas, I don't think Super even has good ideas behind it...

Arc 1 - Tournament. Only participants who matter are Goku and Vegeta. Piccolo is also there, but only fights for a minute or two before being knocked out.
Arc 2 - Let's bring back Trunks and he's fighting evil Goku, but it's not Goku, it's a god who stole his body. And we do more fusion so we get Goku fusing with that god, and Vegetto fights him. But Trunks kills him in the end by using a spirit bomb with his sword and getting the new Blue form somehow.
Arc 2.5 - Vegeta gets a clone who fights Goku for a bit.
Arc 3 - Let's do another tournament, but that's boring so let's have a guy for Goku to fight who's stronger than all the other guys and he has to get two new forms to fight him. Oh also, let's bring Freeza back again, I hear he's popular.
PsionicWarrior wrote:What out of context man, you said crap animation, I can also find some very crap animation in Z what's the point doing that,
I am now suspecting you didn't watch past the retellings lol
I watched everything up to episode 102.
Even what I saw of the Tournament Of Power, which people hail as "The part where the animation gets good", which was right after the Black arc, which was what people hailed as "The part where the animation gets good"... Both of those arcs, actually, still looked like crap, and while there were a lot of well-animated moments, there's at least a couple of goofy keyframes per episode, background characters often look awful, etc...

Yes, you can find some very crap animation in Z. If you mention that, though, then you're entirely missing the point I'm making. I'm not saying Super just has some crap animation, I'm saying Super -- on average -- is not well-animated, and very frequently dips into outright ugly territory. (Plus, the TOP introduced that ugly filter that makes even the nice animation look terrible, because the actual look of the show got worse)
PsionicWarrior wrote:There is more great animation scenes from Super but I took the most recent ones so you see what is up to date and what is to come.
I think it's pretty well accepted that a lot of work was put into making the last few fight scenes look exceptionally good. Because of course that's what was going to happen. Doesn't mean the animation in the show has got better, it means they prioritised the end over the rest so you walk away with the last thing you saw being nicer-looking so it doesn't feel quite so bad.
PsionicWarrior wrote:You know, I was part of the Super hate crowd when it just aired, but as the show went on it improved with time, and I was happy about that. Not only the animation, but also the artstyle.
I'm in the opposite camp. I thought it started out okay, I thought the U6 tournament was pretty decent, I thought the Black arc was... Well... It had its moments... And then the Tournament Of Power hit, with the pace being even slower than the utter slog the rest had been, and it was even worse than the last few arcs, so I gave up.

As for the artstyle, everything up until the ToP was the same artstyle, it's just that the number of episode 5-tier crap dropped a massive amount as time went on. Doesn't mean the animation got good, or that the artstyle got better; honestly, I thought the artstyle was quite nice until the ToP, at which point they put that ugly filter over it, and it turned from being quite nice to straight-up crap, and while the animation did improve over the show's run, it still remained massively inconsistent, every episode would still have its derpy keyframe, every couple of episodes would be really derpy... ("Better" does not mean "Good")
PsionicWarrior wrote:Basically what just happened is I show you some great scenes, and you reply "Muh but look how ugly it was 100 episodes ago!". Dude, weak.
Y'know, there's this thing people sometimes do. It's called joking. Specifically, in this case, mocking. I wasn't pointing out a crap-looking bit from 100 episodes ago to throw in your face, I was pointing out that what you're doing is the same as someone who would do that.
Just because something looked nice once, doesn't mean the show overall looks nice.
PsionicWarrior wrote:If you refuse to acknowledge great DB scenes when you see them, I can only think that's sad.
And here we get to the crux of my argument against Super...

Yes, it does have some great moments. But a few great moments don't make a series. I don't watch the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai because Goku vs Roshi is a good moment, I don't watch the Piccolo arc because the moment Goku kills Piccolo is a great moment, I don't watch the Freeza arc because Goku going Super Saiyan is a great moment...
I watch these things because they are well-told stories with strong, consistently-written characters, and while these iconic moments are symbolic, if the rest of the arc they took place in was total crap, I wouldn't even slightly care. As I illustrated in my last post, there are some great scenes(Or, at least one) in Batman V Superman where Ben Affleck slays in his different take as Batman. There's a real depth in his portrayal, and ultimately, I think he ends up being the MVP of the film...
Unfortunately, the film is crap, so it doesn't matter.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Mon May 07, 2018 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cetra
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Cetra » Mon May 07, 2018 12:39 pm

Robo4900 wrote: I've never understood the "Great ideas, horrible execution" criticism of GT; the Evil Dragons and Baby arcs were rather well-executed on the whole and Super #17 just straight-up wasn't a good idea(Though I thought the execution was actually exceptionally good, because it ends up being a stupid but fun little 6-episode thing between the heavier arcs it stands in the middle of. So, it's not a good arc, but given the plot they were working with, they did pretty damn well). I think the Black-Star arc is the only one you could say this about, really. And even then, it's mostly just a matter of the first 8 episodes being a bit dull, something the writers realised, and immediately course-corrected on.
And I don't even understand that for the first episodes because I think the Imegga-mini-arc is one of the best things of GT.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon May 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Seriously what is it with this fandoms stupid obsession with comparing things all the damn time. Did we really need third thread on this flipping topic?

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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by Robo4900 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:47 pm

Cetra wrote:And I don't even understand that for the first episodes because I think the Imegga-mini-arc is one of the best things of GT.
Oh yeah... I always forget about Imegga. I really love that mini-arc. It was an excellent way to show what GT could do, and a great way to establish the tone and style they were going for.

If they'd done another thing of a similar type to Imegga and the Luud cult with episodes 6, 7, and 8, I think the "Poor execution" argument would hold no water at all. There would still be the problem of episode 2 being rather dull, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ultimately, the idea of hunting for the Dragon Balls in space was a good idea, but when they actually got down to doing the episodic stories in episodes 6, 7, and 8, it was clear that doing it like that wasn't going to work. The stuff on Imegga did work though, and they did a similar type of mini-arc-based story with the Luud cult, and Planet M-2. So ultimately, they did figure out how to actually do the arc pretty quickly, it was just a matter of trying a few things, and the second thing they tried -- from episodes 6-8 -- not working.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Seriously what is it with this fandoms stupid obsession with comparing things all the damn time. Did we really need third thread on this flipping topic?
Well, as we know, the only valid opinion on GT is that it sucks, so its only value in discussion is comparing it to Super. :roll:

In seriousness, yeah, I understand your frustrations. I'd love to discuss GT, but it seems any mentions of it are either in the context of "lol gt sux" or "Which was better: Super or GT, and why do you think it's Super?" It'd be nice to have some more substantial discussions going on about GT.

Though, I must say, it was pretty cool checking the poll last night and seeing the split being almost even at the time. It's tipped over a bit since then, but I am curious to see how it turns out.
My only worry is that, while it has IP-based duplicate-vote checking, it's trivial to set up a proxy to send in multiple votes(I have a free Firefox addon that does that to get around YouTube geoblocking, which I use all the time), so if people cheated on the poll the first time, I'm concerned it'll be cheated again.
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Re: GT vs Super [POLL]

Post by YamiGoku » Mon May 07, 2018 12:56 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Rakurai wrote:...

I can see how someone can think that the baby arc is well executed, and i'm open to change my mind on it, but the Shadow dragon arc? how? is like everyone said a neat idea but the execution was soo poor,the firsts dragoons are a joke and varelly characters and then in the end syn shenron just appears, he has no real plans and ambitions as far as i can remember,he is just evil (i know they are evil dragons but they could at last give them some personalities and a goal?) and he absorbs the other DBs and they fight him, until the totally original genki dama kill.

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