Kai Episode 100 (13 April 2014)

[Naruto6583]

I find it funny how everyone just pays attention to the more generic parts of the soundtrack but almost completely ignore the last piece of orchestra that believe it or not, it's actually pretty good, and a recognizable melody, seems like when Yamamoto's music was first introduced. I do agree it needs more orchestra tho.

I didn't ignore it either. I just thought that track isn't as good as you make it out to be. Didn't catch on to me

I take it any day against the butchered kikuchi score which doesn't even have his best pieces.

For me I'm doing my own kikuchi, placement for kai and I'm building on the tracks like for example episodes 1-11 will emphasize on db, m700's and movies 1-5. Episode 12 will introduce movie's 6 score and by episode 98 all 13 movies score will have been introduced

[Black_Liger]

For me I'm doing my own kikuchi, placement for kai and I'm building on the tracks like for example episodes 1-11 will emphasize on db, m700's and movies 1-5. Episode 12 will introduce movie's 6 score and by episode 98 all 13 movies score will have been introduced

That sounds good, you seem to be respecting a pattern that kikuchi-kai, hell, anything nagasaki does needs. your idea seems good.

[Naruto6583]

For me I'm doing my own kikuchi, placement for kai and I'm building on the tracks like for example episodes 1-11 will emphasize on db, m700's and movies 1-5. Episode 12 will introduce movie's 6 score and by episode 98 all 13 movies score will have been introduced

That sounds good, you seem to be respecting a pattern that kikuchi-kai, hell, anything nagasaki does needs. your idea seems good.

Thanks there's that and I'm doing another kikuchi placement that to the best of my ability that will be based of the japanese dbz episodes

[TheGmGoken]

I find it funny how everyone just pays attention to the more generic parts of the soundtrack but almost completely ignore the last piece of orchestra that believe it or not, it's actually pretty good, and a recognizable melody, seems like when Yamamoto's music was first introduced. I do agree it needs more orchestra tho.

I didn't ignore it either. I just thought that track isn't as good as you make it out to be. Didn't catch on to me

I take it any day against the butchered kikuchi score which doesn't even have his best pieces.

It has ONE. When Goku transported Cell to King Kai. Charging up energy for GenkiDami is the best theme ever. Also IMHO for Cell Games save Gohan SSJ2 transformation the replacement score was good. My comment was about you saying everyone ignored that BGM when you forget people might not like it or they mean overall

[Black_Liger]

It has ONE. When Goku transported Cell to King Kai. Charging up energy for GenkiDami is the best theme ever. Also IMHO for Cell Games save Gohan SSJ2 transformation the replacement score was good. My comment was about you saying everyone ignored that BGM when you forget people might not like it or they mean overall

Ok, I agree with the theme there, but where's the other genkidama march?. and millions of other amazing pieces from Z?. Kikuchi/Kai is butchered and trimmed beyond forgiveness. But still people only seem to reach to the flaws and not even try to say "It might be a good score in the future" when most of the things on the screen have been like a superhero sitcom until now. I do know the placement is terrible, but the music itself is good, and I'm being optimistic that in the future, the orchestra tracks are gonna be even better. Because the only orchestra piece we got till now, is really good. and they got access to the BoG score which has choirs and other good pieces. (However, I don't trust nagasaki will handle them any better" And this raises to my question which goes to another subject.


Is nagasaki always terrible with the anime he works in??. Or is it just dragon ball? is he a db hater in disguise?. His placements just seem..... terrible, HECK fans do much better work than him.

[Naruto6583]

How about goku's first ssj transformation for kikuchi kai it fit pretty well

[Black_Liger]

How about goku's first ssj transformation for kikuchi kai it fit pretty well

It was nothing special, it fits but it's not really THAT WOW, same happened with yamamoto version, the Z counterpart (Kikuchi) of this scene blew both of them out of the water, it was also a soundtrack that was used many times before this scene, but it was far more deep and suited better.

[Naruto6583]

How about goku's first ssj transformation for kikuchi kai it fit pretty well

It was nothing special, it fits but it's not really THAT WOW, same happened with yamamoto version, the Z counterpart (Kikuchi) of this scene blew both of them out of the water, it was also a soundtrack that was used many times before this scene, but it was far more deep and suited better.

would this work better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4lwqCGYW8c
On a side note despite sticking to the earlier score I mentioned above for my placement I was able to slip in one buu arc track for episode 1

[Akumaito Beam]

The music is so bad, it's like the nonstop Falcouner Synth and the the droning boring Luki OST had a baby.

I guess I should have suspected they'd leave the Chibi junk in. It's really jarring to have a weird Saiyaman filler episode played in double speed amongst mostly canon material. On an unrelated note it may have been cool if the original series made this random dinosaur family into the Higher Dragon family. Also making them dragons would kinda explain why this dude wants a random dinosaur so bad.

Otherwise Kai is doing its thing, I'm excited for the dub.

[kenisu3000]

Guess it's time for me to quit lurking through this thread and actually weigh in with my thoughts on the new score:

I was a little depressed when I found out the new Kai BGM would be Sumitomo (though I expected it would turn out that way), as I really hated most of the score from Battle of Gods, and have truly been resenting Toei's efforts to modernize DragonBall. Actually, I don't mind most of the modernization: Widescreen, sure, HD, why not? And I can live with digital animation... up to a point. But musical scores are currently in a huge slump of uncreative, melody-devoid garbage, so please, please, Toei, stop modernizing that aspect of it! I don't know if it's because you're hiring composers who personally strive for phoned-in atmosphere over melody, or because you tell them to score it that way, but whichever it is, just stop it! Why do so many people see it as taboo if a score sounds dated, just as long as it has a good melody?

Now that I've gotten that out of my system... yeah, I know most of this new stuff sounds dated (despite the Battle of Gods score being atrociously modern), but it's not great either.

Again, I didn't like it when the announcement came about the composer, but when I read that statement from Sumitomo himself where he talked about wanting to be a worthy successor to Kikuchi, that's when I got excited, thinking maybe the upcoming Kai score would wind up being something to write home about.

But when episode 99 premiered, I was more-or-less on board with the popular opinion on this forum. Of course, I didn't think it was quite as bad as most were making it out to be, but still very flat and boring. In spite of this, though, I made sure to record each cue and put it on my iPod, just in case I decided to do a BGM documentation. At least I enjoyed the tune that played at the beginning when Gohan rode Kinto'un into Satan City and later when Goten was introduced. With all of this on my iPod, I've listened a little more to this score and, well, it hasn't grown on me, but I'm starting to get used to it.

Then along comes episode 100 with its musical lineup, and I don't know what to think of it. Though most of it's recurring from 99, I'm very divisive about the newest material - some of it's okay, some of it's garbage, like the one AjayLikesGaming posted. Even the orchestrated cue at the end of this latest ep, which people have been lavishing praise upon, isn't quite what it could be. Oh don't get me wrong, it tries (especially with that awesome electric guitar coming in at the end, a touch that reminds me of some of Shinji Miyazaki's great work on older Pokemon episodes), but I think what makes people love certain pieces of music is how deep, meaningful and personal their favorites are, and this cue sounds to my ears like a mere imitation of that, not the genuine article.

I have to say this, though: I know a lot of (actually, probably most) people don't seem to have the taste I do for '80s-style synth, but I've fallen practically in love with the fun little cue that plays when Videl has that fight with Gohan over Chibi the dinosaur. It sort of reminds me, in a roundabout way, of my favorite cue from the old Super Mario Bros. Super Show! Also, after listening to it several times last night, and then listening today to the earlier cue where she beats up the bus hijackers, I've caught something I didn't notice before: Videl has a leitmotif! It's not one that particularly fits her, at least not at this point in the series (it's a little too "cutesy", ironic considering it plays over Videl's line "If you're selling me short because I'm a girl, you're sorely mistaken!"), but I personally like it as its own thing, and it's nice to return to the idea of leitmotif, something Yamamoto didn't really do that much (probably because he was swiping too many different ones from different movies), and though Kikuchi made a bunch of character themes, including one for teenage Gohan that's a reworked version of his "child Gohan" theme, I've never caught anything specific for Videl.

And am I hearing things or is the music while Videl blackmails Gohan into the tournament "Bulma's Birthday Party" from Battle of Gods, with an added guitar overlay that isn't on the CD?

Anyway, I've got the beginnings of a BGM documentation for these two latest episodes written down on paper, but I don't know whether or not I should wait until the OST is announced (so that I don't have to change my cue names to whatever the CD track titles turn out to be).

[Black_Liger]

How about goku's first ssj transformation for kikuchi kai it fit pretty well

It was nothing special, it fits but it's not really THAT WOW, same happened with yamamoto version, the Z counterpart (Kikuchi) of this scene blew both of them out of the water, it was also a soundtrack that was used many times before this scene, but it was far more deep and suited better.

would this work better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4lwqCGYW8c
On a side note despite sticking to the earlier score I mentioned above for my placement I was able to slip in one buu arc track for episode 1

Yeah, that would fit much better.

[GarrettCRW]

I had the strange impression of watching a mix between Funi's DBZ and the 1987 version of TMNT. WEIRD.WEIRD.WEIRD.

Except that the score to the original TMNT cartoon is actually, you know........good.

[theoriginalbilis]

I had the strange impression of watching a mix between Funi's DBZ and the 1987 version of TMNT. WEIRD.WEIRD.WEIRD.

Except that the score to the original TMNT cartoon is actually, you know........good.

Yep, the composers for the 80's TMNT knew when and how to use synthesizers and digital samples to the best effect.

[GarrettCRW]

It's not even that the music isn't fully orchestrated-the music is generally just bad, or at best, generic. With that said, it seems obvious to me that Sumitomo is trying to mimic the synth-heavy style of "We Gotta Power", but he's just not up to the task. I'll reserve judgement on the replacement Satan, but I still absolutely loathe Videl's new voice.

The big problem with this episode, however, is how Toei absolutely refuses to create even the tiny amount of new animation that would successfully make the episode filler-free. Granted, this is a part of Z that I like a lot, but I would expect at least a little effort to fulfill Kai's stated mission.

[Naruto6583]

shows how cheap toei's being

[Gaffer Tape]

and though Kikuchi made a bunch of character themes, including one for teenage Gohan that's a reworked version of his "child Gohan" theme

Really? I mean, I know he had a leitmotif as a child (I mean, it played in practically every early Z episode), but I never caught an update to it later. Can you point me out to which track it is?

[Rukura]

It's really jarring to have a weird Saiyaman filler episode played in double speed amongst mostly canon material.

Just as jarring as the Other World material in the episode 98 montage which, ironically, seems to be coming back next week.

[TheGmGoken]

It's really jarring to have a weird Saiyaman filler episode played in double speed amongst mostly canon material.

Just as jarring as the Other World material in the episode 98 montage which, ironically, seems to be coming back next week.

Huh? OtherWorld tournament is happening next week?

[Rukura]

It's really jarring to have a weird Saiyaman filler episode played in double speed amongst mostly canon material.

Just as jarring as the Other World material in the episode 98 montage which, ironically, seems to be coming back next week.

Huh? OtherWorld tournament is happening next week?

Not the tournament, but the Other World filler part of Goku training before the upcoming Tenkaichi Budokai. It's in the next episode preview.

[TheGmGoken]

Wasn't some of that in the manga though? In fact I'm looking at Goku with weights right now.