Zestanor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:46 pmHere’s what you are doing, from my perspective. Because of your apparently extensive knowledge of media, high brow, low brow, everything in between, you are psychoanalyzing “the majority of the people here” which may or may not be valid...
I've noted this a few times in other threads, but my "psychoanalysis" of the community is NOT simply based purely on my reading people's posts solely on just the forum itself. Once upon a time, I used to be pretty extensively involved with the community off the forums as well, and for a good number of years I'd spoken with and gotten to know extensively a vast, sizable number of some of the most dedicated regulars of this place, along with a whole number of off/on semi-regulars as well, via everything from extensive Skype chats, Private Messages, Instant Messenger and IRC convos, etc.
This went on for well over seven years, at least before I took an extended absence from this place. So that's what my "analysis" is based around: seven consecutive years of extremely extensive off-site interaction getting to know quite well a vast and broad variety of users here, from marquee names to plenty of randos in between.
Whether people who are more "casual" visitors of this site realize it or not, there is indeed a whole culture of sorts, a set of views and assumptions based around a specific and limited, hyper-focused media awareness (centered primarily if not almost solely on children's media), that's endemic within a sizable portion of the "core" Kanzenshuu userbase. That's what my various posts on this topic have been referring to right along.
Zestanor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:46 pmbut it comes off as judging them as uncultured/uncivilized. Or at the very least, it comes off as you flexing on all us rubes.
I think that that sort of hyper defensiveness is, in and of itself, a pretty big part of the problem with discussions like this, and it makes trying to give criticism of even the most constructive kind almost borderline impossible at times when the most bad-faith interpretation of every point of criticism is assumed up front. In most contexts, including this one, it usually seems centered around the basic feeling like
"Are you saying you're better than me? Is that what you're saying? You aren't better than me!"
No. That ISN'T what I'm saying. I'm saying that much of - not the ENTIRETY of, but much of - this community has a very obvious and deeply seated problem that hobbles its ability to more effectively and accurately discuss or engage with creative media like TV, film, etc. without falling down any number of horribly distorted rabbit holes that are in no way indicative of the reality behind most of these works.
That I am aware of this problem and am speaking out frankly about it does NOT in ANY remote way mean that I think of myself as "superior" in any capacity to anyone here. If I wanted to "flex" on people or paint myself as somehow "better than thou" or whatever... my posts would IN NO WAY read the way that they do, as there are any NUMBER of better, infinitely more direct ways that I could easily communicate that point better.
Zestanor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:46 pmI suppose there’s a valid point to be made somewhere in there, but you need to try harder to not make it sound like “I’m glad I’m not like thou simpletons” so that your point isn’t lost on us.
I'm not sure if anyone's picked up on this or not yet, but I'm
kind of something of an incredibly blunt and direct person to my very core.
Passive aggressive insinuation and snide, tiptoeing implications are SO far in the diametric exact opposite direction of my very nature as a person that its frankly absurd for anyone who's known me longer than a couple days (at most, if that) to make the assumption that that's how I normally communicate almost ANY thoughts that I have.
So once again, if I wanted to convey the message that "I'm better/superior to all you filthy plebs" or whatever, then...
I'd simply come right out and SAY that directly in no uncertain terms. Hell, there are any NUMBER of ways and have long, long for years/decades now been a MYRIAD of wide open opportunities for me to have done
exactly that if that was all that I was trying to do.
I've not only not done or taken any of them, but frankly the fact that its taken me THIS many years (well over a decade now) to come out and talk about this topic more openly on here, when this was something I started noticing as far back as fucking 2006 or whatnot (way back when Bush was still in office for context) should kind of send the message quite clearly that this is a topic that I've in NO WAY approached opening up on here lightly, and have for YEARS now considered deeply other people's feelings on this subject.
Unfortunately, as I thought from the beginning, people are INCREDIBLY hyper-sensitive about this type of thing and no matter how gently, politely, constructively, and delicately I can possibly phrase or frame it, people will instinctively assume the worst/most bad faith framework of the topic and of my intentions, and immediately leap into defensive mode.
That type of defensiveness should make it pretty clear partly why its taken me the better part of a decade to try and open up the lid off of this can of worms. My aim was NEVER to hurt or insult anyone, but to get people to actually take an honest, sobering look at a real community-wide problem that's been lurking at the heart of why a LOT of key discussions throughout the history of this community has long been riddled with bad assumptions and distorted framing about art that betrays an incredibly limited understanding of basic media literacy, even well beyond what is "normal" for a lot of average folks.
Obviously the average person isn't out there reading Kant and Camus and whatnot... but the average person's baseline understanding and framing of the high points in creative media isn't also centered around mainly/solely things like Pixar and the Cartoon Network lineup and whatnot. The reality for most average people is obviously somewhere in the middle: and the bulk of this community has demonstrated to me, time and time and time and time again going back ages ago now, that its typical baseline for such things is nowhere even REMOTELY near that middle, average territory.
Dealing exclusively in the highest of high brow is certainly far from normal obviously... but at the same time, so is dealing and zeroing in on exclusively (or close to it) stuff that's made primarily to the level of 6 to 10 year olds. And frankly the latter extreme has FAR more glaring and troublesome pitfalls than does the former. To put it mildly.
Zestanor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:46 pmYou haven’t contributed here as much as you used to, so I can understand not feeling the social pressure to give critiques politely. For real though, your rant reads like a shitpost, so I’m blocked from even beginning to give it a sympathetic reading.
I haven't contributed as much here in more recent years for the same exact reason why I have zero interest whatsoever in "flexing on the plebs" with my "superior knowledge" as you're asserting I am: because I'm a 36 year old grown-ass fucking man with real life responsibilities and concerns that take MASSIVE priority over my discussing a 30+ year old children's kung fu fantasy cartoon on the internet.
However that being said, the fact that I've long gotten to know and become close with and gotten to care about a lot of folks who've contributed to this site over the years functions as a LOT of the reason for why I A) still bother to post here at all to begin with and B) why I care even the tiniest bit enough to even DISCUSS this kind of topic in this level of depth at all in the first place.
At this point I have zero idea what more I can possibly say or demonstrate to convince people that I'm genuinely trying to shed light on and constructively break down what I've long seen as a real and serious problem with the nature of the discourse (as it pertains to broader media awareness and assumptions outside of just DB) in this place, rather than snobbishly look down my nose at all the worthless peons below me or whatever. I've put forth my thoughts on these matters as plainly, directly, respectfully, and thoughtfully as I can possibly think to construct them.
And yes, I'm also well aware that I probably should've just made this topic its own thread like, a
LOOOOOOOOOOONG-ass time ago. Again, the fact that I'm a 30-something year old adult with tons of shit going on in my personal life functions as a lot of the reason for why I haven't done that yet, as I'd like to actually take the proper time and space to delve into this in as thorough and nuanced a way as possible within a dedicated thread.