What do you think are some of the worst retcons in the series?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

It's clear in my mind that the worst retcon in history is making Goku go from a silly, but pretty normal adult, to being... what he is in Super. Why? Why?

That's not a retcon, that's a change in characterization.

[PurestEvil]

It's clear in my mind that the worst retcon in history is making Goku go from a silly, but pretty normal adult, to being... what he is in Super. Why? Why?

That's not a retcon, that's a change in characterization.

POV: you don't know what retroactive continuity is (the guy you replied to)

[ABED]

Future Trunks never having purple/lavender hair and everyone acting like Future Trunks has always had blue hair, including Bulma her past mum.

We have DBZ Future Trunks having purple/lavender hair the entire time, including DBS flash backs but then in Goku Black Saga he has blue hair. Then in the flash black with Future Gohan alive we see Future Trunks with blue hair.

Now we have Future Trunks with blue hair, who never had purple/lavender hair and Present Trunks who always had and has purple/lavender hair. That was a pointless retcon.

In the Buu Saga Gohan and Goku reacted to Krillin having hair, since they always saw him bald.

If they wanted to have the two Trunks have different hair color, maybe they could have made it a point that time travel alters one dna or maybe have Future Trunks dye his hair to remember his mum. A retcon it just pointless.

Are you saying that's one of the worst or just listing it?

[dva_raza]

Just out of curiosity, why do most of you prefer Bardock and Goku to be evil or heartless than heroic? (And not that Bardock is presented as a "hero" now either, it just turned out he had a heart, he rebelled a bit from his nature but I thought it was sutil and not that different from him trying to save his planet). But why do you find him being more heroic to be less deep or interesting?

With Goku the reason I personally like the change is because I kinda like it less to follow the main hero of a story knowing that the only reason he is not a genocidal maniac like Vegeta and Raditz is literally due to some mistake, just because he happened to hit his head. Seems morally weird to me. And so the Broly movie making the character’s base good, as much as that might feel romanticized or whatever, I think that does the character justice, (better justice than what Toriyama says about him) and I just simply like the main character being good, not just being good by mistake. It seems special and more interesting to me to imagine that a race of people who are mostly heartless, had exceptions.

[ABED]

Because it's way more expected that Bardock, the father of the protagonist, is himself a good guy amongst a barbaric race.

Goku isn't good by mistake. He simply has his programming knocked out of him. What's interesting about turning Goku into someone who's good because he's "special"? Goku is the exception. No reason to make his father into Jor-El.

[jjgp1112]

Goku being good out of pure luck causing him to go against his nature is far more compelling than him having nice parents. Especially the notion of him being sent to destroy Earth rather than mommy and daddy loving him very much.

[dva_raza]

Well that doesn't really answers the question . You say it's more compelling, which is what I saw from the majority of the comments. I was just reflecting about why is that more compelling to most of you

[jjgp1112]

Well that doesn't really answers the question . You say it's more compelling, which is what I saw from the majority of the comments. I was just reflecting about why is that more compelling to most of you

Because it's different. You say that him being good by accident is unbefitting for a hero of a story.

I say, so what?

That's why it works - Dragon Ball already isn't a super hero story to begin with, and so Goku's origins defying convention sets him apart. He's not the messiah, he's just a space warrior who hit his head on the job. Goku being a miraculous defiance of his nature underscores his conflict with Raditz and the Saiyans and adds more dimension to his character. Before the fight with Frieza, Goku was extremely troubled to learn his true nature, especially when he found out that he was the monster that killed his grandpa. An accident saving him from being a monster gives all of his subsequent actions more weight and resonance.

[MyVisionity]

It's very telling that the majority of the so-called retcons mentioned here come from the Super-era. Which is why it's probably a good idea to avoid attempting to reconcile Super with DB/DBZ in the first place.

[dva_raza]

Dragon Ball already isn't a super hero story to begin with, and so Goku's origins defying convention sets him apart. He's not the messiah, he's just a space warrior who hit his head on the job.

I know that it's not a superhero story and he doesn't have to be "the messiah". But I use the word "hero" because despite what Toriyama wanted to present or said about the character, Goku does fit the description of "heroic", which is, noble, self-sacrificing, selfless, brave. But when you say Goku's origins defying convention sets him apart, that kinda sounds the same as him defying the convention of his race being evil, by him being different. And that happens in real life.

Goku being a miraculous defiance of his nature underscores his conflict with Raditz and the Saiyans and adds more dimension to his character.

Why does Goku being exceptional naturally (not because of the accident) not work exactly in the same way within that same context?

An accident saving him from being a monster gives all of his subsequent actions more weight and resonance.

Why exactly it being an accident gives subsequent actions more weight than just him being different as a person from the begining? By the way I'm not trying to "debate", I'm genuinely asking because I don't really understand the difference and I've wondered about this ever since that Bardock chapter came out and I started hearing people talk about their distaste for the "heartless to hero" change

[MasenkoHA]

As far as I know Goku’s head bump was never retconned out so it seems moot.

Bardock and Gine being good people makes even less sense. Why is Raditz an evil asshole? Why was Goku so vicious and wild until his head bump?

[PurestEvil]

As far as I know Goku’s head bump was never retconned out so it seems moot.

Bardock and Gine being good people makes even less sense. Why is Raditz an evil asshole? Why was Goku so vicious and wild until his head bump?

I dunno about Gine, but Bardock was still not a "good person", even after Kakarot was born. He was complicit and supportive of the genocidal campaigns conducted by Freeza.
Sure, he may have done a little favor for a cerealian mom and boy (which I am skeptical of, nonetheless) and did something to protect Kakarot, but those actions don't exactly cancel his wrongdoings out.

As for Raditz...well he did end up spending most of his childhood serving the Freeza force, so that would have cemented his evil nature.

[Koitsukai]

As far as I know Goku’s head bump was never retconned out so it seems moot.

Bardock and Gine being good people makes even less sense. Why is Raditz an evil asshole? Why was Goku so vicious and wild until his head bump?

Well, Raditz spent 30 years with Vegeta and Nappa, and was already hanging out with them as a 5 year old.

Goku being vicious and wild could be because of missing his parents. It makes Goku less of a feral kid and more like Gohan when Raditz took him away. I guess the headbump gave him amnesia, made him forget his parents and revert back to his good nature, which runs in the family according to Geets.

But yeah, he was way too agressive towards a good person that was being nothing but good to him, unlike Raditz to Gohan.

[dva_raza]

Well anyway. The WORST retcon for me is definitley Vegeta supposedly having a brother all this time. Just because it's the one that's just unconvincing to me for whatever reason, seems silly almost. The character being kinda lame doesn’t help. I did like that movie though

[Civic]

Future Trunks never having purple/lavender hair and everyone acting like Future Trunks has always had blue hair, including Bulma her past mum.

We have DBZ Future Trunks having purple/lavender hair the entire time, including DBS flash backs but then in Goku Black Saga he has blue hair. Then in the flash black with Future Gohan alive we see Future Trunks with blue hair.

Now we have Future Trunks with blue hair, who never had purple/lavender hair and Present Trunks who always had and has purple/lavender hair. That was a pointless retcon.

In the Buu Saga Gohan and Goku reacted to Krillin having hair, since they always saw him bald.

If they wanted to have the two Trunks have different hair color, maybe they could have made it a point that time travel alters one dna or maybe have Future Trunks dye his hair to remember his mum. A retcon it just pointless.

YES! I agree with most of the suggestions in this thread, but for some reason this one pisses me off the most. At least those other things like the Potara change was for a reason in the story (it was just to have Vegito again with no consequences, but still a reason). The hair colour change, AND no one commenting on it as if it had always been blue? While Kid Trunks is standing there with purple hair?!

I know why it was done, but it's got to be the stupidest fucking reason. It makes me irrationally angry.

[PurestEvil]

Well anyway. The WORST retcon for me is definitley Vegeta supposedly having a brother all this time. Just because it's the one that's just unconvincing to me for whatever reason, seems silly almost. The character being kinda lame doesn’t help. I did like that movie though

Despite the potential ramifications, Tarble was honestly harmless, lore-wise; he was just a gag character. The only issue is that it started a trend of Saiyans being drawn too skinnily.

[Aim]

Just out of curiosity, why do most of you prefer Bardock and Goku to be evil or heartless than heroic? (And not that Bardock is presented as a "hero" now either, it just turned out he had a heart, he rebelled a bit from his nature but I thought it was sutil and not that different from him trying to save his planet). But why do you find him being more heroic to be less deep or interesting?

With Goku the reason I personally like the change is because I kinda like it less to follow the main hero of a story knowing that the only reason he is not a genocidal maniac like Vegeta and Raditz is literally due to some mistake, just because he happened to hit his head. Seems morally weird to me. And so the Broly movie making the character’s base good, as much as that might feel romanticized or whatever, I think that does the character justice, (better justice than what Toriyama says about him) and I just simply like the main character being good, not just being good by mistake. It seems special and more interesting to me to imagine that a race of people who are mostly heartless, had exceptions.

I still think the new Burdack is good. He’s not overly “bad”, he’s just a person gained some further thinking skills, I’d argue he’s probably one of the few Saiyan’s that display reflective thinking, “is what they are doing right?”, “but they have always sold planets, what is there to do?”, “I don’t need to kill this child and parent”, etc. all the other Saiyan’s wiped out the Cerealians whether they were children or not, Burdack had some thinking skills developed that made him different.

[dva_raza]

he’s just a person gained some further thinking skills, I’d argue he’s probably one of the few Saiyan’s that display reflective thinking, “is what they are doing right?”,

That's exactly how I view it. I didn't see a random and unjustified need to save everybody all of a sudden, and he was still shown to be conflicted about it so I don't think it changes him from the previous version, it just shows some depth and I thought it was done gently.
And I like the idea of Bardock having at least some emotional connection to Goku instead of none.

[ABED]

But the hero not coming from hero stock feels fresh.

[Aim]

But the hero not coming from hero stock feels fresh.

He’s not a hero though? He literally helped to conquer planets and sell them.