"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

So Vegeta is winning against an even stronger Black?

[Noah]

...we at least got to see Zamasu commit the crime before Beerus and Whis rewinded time and interfered while here Beerus just interfered from the get go.

Which crime? He didn't killed Gowasu after all...

Toriyama chose Toyotaro who he believes mimics his art style the best.
So why is he incompetent? When he follows what Toriyama gives him.

Well, because we all know that Toriyama tends to forgot stuff and he likely don't give a shit about power scaling anymore, Toyotaro being a hardcore fan like many of us, could remember him stuff and keep things consistent in the story overall, but he doesn't.

You would think we would be past this considering Toriyama was responsible for the abomination known as ROF.

Yeah, RoF and Minus can be put in his account, unfortunately.

[Miracles]

Text translation for ch.19:
[spoiler]Page 77
DBS ch.19: Another Zamasu

Sideways text: “Goku and Black finally come face-to-face!! A super-intense battle begins!!”
1
Goku: “[r] So you’re Black…[l] Or should I say ‘Zamasu’?!”
3
Goku: “[r] I know the whole story! [l] You used the Dragon Balls to switch bodies with me!”

Page 78
3
Black: “[l] You even know about that, huh?...”
4
Goku: “[r] Then it’s true! [l] Which means there must be a version of me in your body. What happened to him?!”
5
Black: “Don’t worry, I immediately killed him.”
6
Goku: “[r] …Damn. [l] Guess that means I gotta avenge my own death.”
7
Black: “[r] How’d you two get here? [l] This world’s versions of you should be long dead.”
Vegeta: “No reason for me to tell you that.”

Page 79
1
Black: “[r] What about Trunks?” [l] Is he with you?”
2
Vegeta: “[r] We’re not here to chat! [l] We’re here to kill you!”
3
Vegeta: “HAH!!!”

Page 80
5
Vegeta: “HAAAAH!!!”

Page 81
2
Goku: “Hey, Vegeta! We never picked who’d go first!!”
3
Vegeta: “Seeing his face, I couldn’t hold back any longer!”
4
Goku: “[t] Oh well… Guess it’d be tough to fight someone with my own face anyway.”
6
Black: “[r] Perfect. [l] I was getting bored just fighting Trunks all the time.”

Page 82
2
Vegeta: “Hmph! Blond hair, huh?”
Goku: “So he can also go Super Saiyan?”

Page 83
5
Black: “HAAH!!!!”

Page 84
N/A

Page 85
N/A

Page 86
3
Mai: “He’s…become a Super Saiyan!”
4
Trunks: “I haven’t seen that in a long time…”
Mai: “This means Black must be having a tough fight, right?”
5
Trunks: “[r] …But…[l] He’s stronger now than when he fought me…”
6
Mai: “[r] Even so, it looks like Vegeta’s got him on the ropes. [l] Goku’s there on the sidelines too. They should be fine.”

Page 87
3
Vegeta: “HAAAA!!!!”

Page 88
1
Vegeta: “DAAH!!!!”

Page 89
3
Vegeta: “[r] I see…[l] It figures you’d be too much for Trunks to handle.”
4
Black: “[r] To think that you’d be this strong…[l] Which era did you come from?!”
5
Vegeta: “Hmph, work it out for yourself.”
6
Vegeta: “[r] By the way, compared to that Kakarot over there, your Kakarot’s body must be from even further in the future. [l] …So can you can go Blue too?”
8
Vegeta: “How about we both use our strongest forms to finish this?”

Page 90
3
Vegeta: “[r] What’s wrong? Hurry up and transform. [l] I’m going to kill you.”
4
Black: “[l] I…can’t yet…”
6
Vegeta: “[r] You can’t? [l] Hahaha! I thought not.”

Page 91
1
Vegeta: “[r] That body was created through his long history of battle. [l] Right down to every nook and cranny in every cell.”
5
Vegeta: “For you it’s just secondhand goods…”

Page 92
1
Black: “[r] Nuh [l] Guoh!!”
2
Vegeta: “It’s got Saiyan cells that only a pure idiot like him can use…”
4
Vegeta: “To their full…”
5
Vegeta: “Potential!!!”

Page 93
3
Black: “Guuh…”
4
Goku: “Man…it’s like watching myself get beat up. Not sure how I feel about this…”
5
Black: “[r] Th…There’s no way…[l] I’m going to let you stop my plans!”
6
Black: “DAAA!!!”

Page 94
3
Zamasu: “[r] My apologies, Lord Gowasu. [l] I received an emergency summons from my Kaio successor.”
5
Gowasu: “[r] Oh Zamasu, you’re back. [l] We’ve got guests.”
6
Zamasu: “[r] Um…[l] Who might you be…?”

Page 95
1
Gowasu: “[r] This is Lord Beerus, Universe 7’s God of Destruction. [l] And his guide, the angel Lord Whis.”
2
Zamasu: “[r] It…It’s a pleasure to make your acquaintance. [l] I am Zamasu.”
3
Beerus: “Where were you just now?”
4
Zamasu: “As…As I said, there was some trouble in the northern part of this universe which I needed to attend to…
Beerus: “Were you with Zuno?”
6
Beerus: “You visited Zuno, the sage of Universe 7. Right?”
7
Zamasu: “Tru…Truly you know all. I’d expect no less of a God of Destruction…”
Beerus: “Why’d you ask Zuno all about the Dragon Balls and Goku?”
8
Zamasu: “[t] W…Well… I watched the tournament on GodTube…and it piqued my interest…”
9
Beerus: “[t] You also asked about gods and mortals switching bodies. What’s the big idea?”

Page 96
1
Zamasu: “[r] Well I…[l] I just wanted to know if it were possible…”
2
Gowasu: “[r] Zamasu! What’s going on? [l] Explain yourself!”
4
Gowasu: “Oh…The Kaioshin of Universe 7!”
5
Kaioshin: “Thank you for having me over the other day, Kaioshin of Universe 10.”
6
Beerus: “You’re late, Kaioshin.”
7
Kaioshin: “[r] My apologies. I needed to do some time-travel. [l] It ended up taking a while.”

Page 97
1
Gowasu: “[r] That’s a…Time Ring…! [l] What did you go see?”
2
Kaioshin: “Zamasu!”
3
Kaioshin: “I’ve seen your future.”
5
Gowasu: “The…The future...?”
Kaioshin: “Zamasu will go on to commit countless evil deeds.”
6
Gowasu: “[r] Evil deeds? [l] I can’t believe Zamasu would be capable of that…!”
7
Kaioshin: “Unfortunately Lord Beerus, it is exactly as we feared.”
Beerus: “Alright then…”

Page 98
1
Beerus: “[r] Now we’ve got a good reason to destroy you. [l] Not that a God of Destruction ever needs a reason to destroy.”
3
Gowasu: “[r] What’s wrong, Zamasu?! Say something! [l] There must be some mistake, right?”
5
Zamasu: “’Evil deeds’?”
6
Zamasu: “Surely you meant to say ‘Righteous’?”

Page 99
3
Black: “[r] This world ruled by mortals is a mistake. [l] They inevitably fight war after war, destroying whole planets.”
4
Black: “[r] This world doesn’t need mortals! [l] Their very existence is evil!!!”
4
Black: “And by correcting this error, I am…”
5
Black: “righteous!!!”

Page 100
1
Vegeta: “What a load.”
4
Vegeta: “[r] I don’t care if you’re a god or Kaio. [l] It’s got nothing to do with us.”
5
Black: “Uguguh!!!”

Page 101
2
Vegeta: “I'll remove you from this world.”
3
Black: [l] I…I’ve defeated all of the gods…”
4
Goku: “But you didn’t beat the Gods of Destruction yourself, did you? You just killed all the Kaioshins so that both’d vanish.”
5
Goku: “You play dirty.”
6
Black: “[l] Never mind the means. What matters is that I’m the sole remaining god in this world.”

Page 102
1
Vegeta: “So?”
2
Black: “So, in this world…”
3
Black: “My word is law!!”
5
Black: “DAAAA!!!”

Page 103
3
Vegeta: “We don’t need a god pushing his own warped sense of justice on us.”
4
Black: “[r] Shut up…[l] Shut up, mortal!!”
5
Black: “Gods are absolute!!!”
6
Black: “[r] As a god, all my actions [l] Are righteous!!!”

Page 104
1
Beerus: “Those are just your own crazy ideas. There’s nothing righteous about them.”
3
Zamasu: “[r] If my plan is being carried out in the future…[l] Then obviously I can’t die here.”
5
Zamasu: “This is just where my plan begins.”

Page 105
1
Zamasu: “UOOOOOOOO!!!”
4
Beerus: “Now we see your true colors.”
5
Zamasu: “GUH!!!”

Page 106
1
Beerus: “Destroy!”

Page 107
1
Gowasu: “Za…Zamasu!!!”
2
Gowasu: “Wh-What’s going on...?”
Kaioshin: “Once I’ve taken Lord Beerus and Whis to Earth, I’ll come back and explain it all in detail.”
3
Whis: “Lord Gowasu, when selecting your next disciple, please judge by their heart rather than their power.”
4
Beerus: “[r] If you pick another crazy disciple, I’ll destroy you…[l] …OK, I can’t. But I’ll beat you up instead!”
5
Kaioshin: “Lord Beerus, we must hurry!”
7
Kaioshin: “There is something I must go report to Goku and the others!

Page 108
2
Trunks: “Goku!”
3
Goku: “What, you guys came too?!”
4
Trunks: “[r] Please listen! [l] Black’s Super Saiyan form has grown even stronger than before.”
5
Goku: “[r] Hmm…[l] Guess he’s been training too… Well, even so, it looks like there’s too big of a gap for him to win.”
6
Trunks: “[r] I’ve got a bad feeling about this…[l] We’d better finish him off soon.”
8
Goku: “[r] …OK. [l] Got it.”

Page 109
1
Goku: “Hey, Vegeta!”
3
Goku: “Never mind my turn! Just finish him off!”
4
Vegeta: “[r] Hmph! [l] I never intended to let you have a turn anyway!”
5
Goku: “Jerk!”

Page 110
1
Vegeta: “This’ll finish you!”
2
Vegeta: “Sorry, but your dreams must go unfulfilled!!”
3
Black: “[r] Da…[l] Damn it…”
4
Vegeta: “Take this!!!!”
5
Vegeta: “Final Flash!!!”

Page 111
N/A

Page 112
N/A

Page 113
4
Vegeta: “[l] Who’s that…?”
5
Beerus: “[r] What’s wrong, Kaioshin? [l] What’d you see in the future?”
Kaioshin: “Goku Black…I mean, Zamasu, wasn’t alone.”
6
Beerus: “What?!”
7
Whis: “[r] Someone is helping him...? [l] Is that what you mean?”
Kaioshin: “Yes.”
8
Kaioshin: “[r] He has…[l] The very best of helpers…!”

Page 114
1
Super mysterious person: “That was a close one.”
2
Super mysterious person: “But this will take you one step closer to your ultimate form, right?”
4
Super mysterious person: “HAH!!”
5
Goku: “Who’s there?! Some comrade of his?”
Trunks: “Black has a comrade?! I never knew about this…!!”
7
Vegeta: “Black’s recovered!”

Page 115
2
Black: “I owe you one..."
3
Super mysterious person: “If you die, it’ll all be for nothing.”
4
Zamasu [shock!]: “[r] After all, the Zero Mortals Plan…[l] Requires both of us.”
Sideways text: “With Goku Black on the ropes, Zamasu has stepped in to save him!! What’s going on in the future…?!”[/spoiler]

If I unknowingly ran into you on the street, you told me I'm known as Herms on the net and I translate a lot of Dragonball stuff. I would kiss you.
Thank you again sir!

[Noah]

Gosh, what a lame chapter! It was indeed a Vegeta wankfest, I really don't like it how less menacing Black is portrayed in the manga and present Zamasu being destroyed by Beerus was kinda lame for me in the anime and I still thinks the same in the manga.

Thanks for the translation, Herms

[Overlord78]

So Vegeta is winning against an even stronger Black?

Absolutely hilarious

Some people are still going to defend this mess with their own headcanons. Just accept that Super as a whole doesn't care about power level consistency.

Also Black is a joke in the manga compared to his anime counterpart.

[Basako]

There are the translations, thanks Herms. My thoughs:

A stronger transformation for Black confirmed, that must be the SSR. Trunks confirms he is having power boosts too, maybe that's why he let him scape alive other times, we saw an example of that in the last chapter. Zenkai boost?

So we haven't got any explanation about Vegeta being that strong in SS2, it just is. Well, I think it's too much then. Remember base Black beated SS2 Trunks, who could perform fine in the sparring against SS3 Goku. In some way it makes sense, because if Black can get such a powerfull base, why wouldn't Vegeta or Goku get it too? Now, that's another thing, as far as we know, Goku is not that strong in SS3, or maybe he is?

Shin has his own time ring, so probably there is a time ring box set in each universe. The information he has is that Black has help, the mysterious guy. That means he went to see what has happened in Trunks's timeline.

The storytelling was great. Watch out how the conversations of the two scenarios connect all the time. Very good!

[dbzfan7]

Sounds like he purposely got beat up by Vegeta to help bring out the Rose form I guess...

[Lord Beerus]

Goku: “Hey, Vegeta!”
Goku: “Never mind my turn! Just finish him off!”
Vegeta: “Hmph! I never intended to let you have a turn anyway!”
Goku: “Jerk!”

Unfucking believable. It's Resurrection F all over again. Goku and Vegeta are treating this with such a laid back attitude because Black is such a push-over in the manga. Even though he shouldn't be. This sucks hard.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Sounds like he purposely got beat up by Vegeta to help bring out the Rose form I guess...

Well, it doesn't look like Black had any other choice than getting beaten up.

[zamasu121]

Vegeta: “[r] I see…[l] It figures you’d be too much for Trunks to handle.”
4
Black: “[r] To think that you’d be this strong…[l] Which era did you come from?!”

according to this black was not holding back

[dbzfan7]

Sounds like he purposely got beat up by Vegeta to help bring out the Rose form I guess...

Well, it doesn't look like Black had any other choice than getting beaten up.

The talk about ultimate form or whatever along with the whole body remembers pain thing seems to indicate that was the point....that's all I can guess from that. I mean he was oddly enough looking like he did better fighting in base .

[Lord Beerus]

Black says he can't transform, yet he transforms into a Super Saiyan. Huh? So what the fuck is he talking say that he can't transform yet? I mean, if he knows that he can transform into Super Saiyan Rose, then why doesn't he have Zamasu beat him up and Zenkai his way into the form? This makes Black seem incredibly stupid, especially considering that Zamasu can heal him. So he could have done this a long time ago with Zamasu and it would much more safer and efficient. But he didn't. He decided to be a reckless idiot and hope that Vegeta doesn't kill him very quickly or that Zamasu miraculously arrived to save his ass before it was too late. Goku Black fucking sucks in manga.

[sintzu]

That was the best chapter I've ever seen.

There's nothing better than seeing Vegeta beat someone up, it's like an early christmas gift.

Although the anime's version was really good, this is even better and I wish we got something like this in the anime as well.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Black says he can't transform, yet he transforms into a Super Saiyan. Huh? So what the fuck is he talking say that he can't transform yet?

Black says that he can't transform into a Super Saiyan Blue yet, when he is already a Super Saiyan.

[sintzu]

Black says he can't transform, yet he transforms into a Super Saiyan. Huh? So what the fuck is he talking say that he can't transform yet?

Black says that he can't transform into a Super Saiyan Blue yet, when he is already a Super Saiyan.

Do you think he'll go Blue instead of Pink ?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Black says he can't transform, yet he transforms into a Super Saiyan. Huh? So what the fuck is he talking say that he can't transform yet?

Black says that he can't transform into a Super Saiyan Blue yet, when he is already a Super Saiyan.

Do you think he'll go Blue instead of Pink ?

Toriyama designed Super Saiyan Rose, so no way.

[TheMikado]

Sounds like he purposely got beat up by Vegeta to help bring out the Rose form I guess...

Well, it doesn't look like Black had any other choice than getting beaten up.

Yeah this is super weird, it's like Toyotaro is readily acknowledging that Black should be much stronger than he appears but doesn't draw the fight this way. Unless he's still supposed to be playing possum but didn't expect to be getting beat that badly. This chapter was very weird with the in universe acknowledgment of the weird black power level.

[KameNinja45]

Black says he can't transform, yet he transforms into a Super Saiyan. Huh? So what the fuck is he talking say that he can't transform yet? I mean, if he knows that he can transform into Super Saiyan Rose, then why doesn't he have Zamasu beat him up and Zenkai his way into the form? This makes Black seem incredibly stupid, especially considering that Zamasu can heal him. So he could have done this a long time ago with Zamasu and it would much more safer and efficient. But he didn't. He decided to be a reckless idiot and hope that Vegeta doesn't kill him very quickly or that Zamasu miraculously arrived to save his ass before it was too late. Goku Black fucking sucks in manga.

Vegeta asks if he can turn Blue, to which Black replies that he can't. As for why he doesn't ask Zamasu to beat him up and quickly gain power due to Zenkai Boost's, there's no need to. Why can't Vegeta and Goku do the same thing? Hurt themselves and then eat a Senzu Bean? There's simply no need to, Black and Zamasu never thought they would be overwhelmed.
Granted, this Black is still much worse than his anime counterpart, in terms of personality.

[Lord Beerus]

Black says he can't transform, yet he transforms into a Super Saiyan. Huh? So what the fuck is he talking say that he can't transform yet?

Black says that he can't transform into a Super Saiyan Blue yet, when he is already a Super Saiyan.

Ah. My mistake. But even then, Goku Black implying that he can transform into a Super Saiyan Blue is pretty weird.

[KameNinja45]

The Goku Black we see in this chapter is terrible when compared to his anime counterpart.
Black from the anime was cocky, but not boastful, collected, calm, badass, malicious, graceful, and all around just amazing.
The Black we see here is cocky, but very much boastful, whiny, in denial, a wannabe Freeza and all around just unremarkable.
Toyotaro has turned Goku Black into Zamasu.