Kai Episode 3 (19 April 2009)

[ShinRogafuken]

I have to say, Kai is a disappointment. It was supposed the problems in DBZ, but now its just creating NEW problems and leaving some old problems unfixed.

DBZ for sure wasn't perfect, but that's what makes it entertaining, also Toei CAN have the pass with it.

Kai, no. Regardless if you consider it as its own entity or not, I think Kai is just another mediocre cash-in.

[NeoKING]

Here are the official titles and the originally announced titles for the first four episodes:

闘いの幕開け！帰ってきたぞ孫悟空

闘いの幕開け！帰ってきたぞ孫悟

敵は悟空の兄！？最強戦士サイヤ人の秘密

敵は悟空の兄！？最強戦士サイヤ人の秘密

悟空とピッコロ最強タッグ！激闘ラディッツ戦

命をかけた闘い！悟空とピッコロ捨て身の猛攻

孫悟空が死んじゃった…あの世とこの世のキビしい修行!

あの世で走れ孫梧空！１００万キロの蛇の道

And translated...

The Curtain Opens on the Battle! Son Goku Returns

The Curtain Opens on the Battle! Son Goku Returns

The Enemy is Goku's Older Brother!? The Secret of the Saiya-jin, Strongest of Warriors

The Enemy is Goku's Older Brother!? The Secret of the Saiya-jin, Strongest of Warriors

Goku and Piccolo's Strongest Tag-Team! The Fierce Battle Against Raditz

A Battle with Their Lives on the Line! Goku and Piccolo's Fierce Suicidal Attack

Son Goku is Dead... Fierce Training in the Afterlife and Living World!

Goku Runs in the Afterlife! The Million Kilometer Snake Road

If it wasn't for the addition of the word "suicide" in the title for episode three, I would see the removal of the word "dead" in episode four as the best example of a Saban-style edit yet.

-Translations by Herms of Kanzentai.

Didn't this same thing happen with Japanese GT? (Here comes the GT-prejudice )

Granted the mistakes for GT episode titles were MUCH MUCH bigger..That episode where Goku finally kills Bebi was originally going to be called "Only 5 Seconds To Leave Planet Tsufuru?!" or something.

[JulieYBM]

Granted the mistakes for GT episode titles were MUCH MUCH bigger..That episode where Goku finally kills Bebi was originally going to be called "Only 5 Seconds To Leave Planet Tsufuru?!" or something.

Eh? How do we know this?

[SSj_Rambo]

Hey, the next episode previewincluded in episode three was the first one to use the entire song (the first two cut out five seconds from the middle).

It sounds a lot smoother!

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say this. If we are to treat Kai as a separate entity, then I can at least complain about the cropping of it, because I really doubt Toei is going to release an uncropped version of it. No big deal to me, but the cropping thing was equivalent to a kick in the crotch to a significant amount of people for Funi's remastering. Techincally, if Toei doesn't release an uncropped version of Kai, and you guys keep saying "treat it like a separate entity" then I'd say it's just as bad as Funi...since I more than likely won't be able to own a 4:3 version of this new show.

I'm getting so confused by all of this.

But this new show was intended to be seen in widescreen. FUNimation has presented no other option to get the original show (at least not now), and Z was always meant to be fullscreen. This is not just blatant cropping, Toei is reframing shots.

I don't know enough about Kai to have a good argument.

Yes, Kai is a complete Re-framing.
Yes some shots are cropped, but some shots they do MORE than that.
During the Fight, there was a scene where originally, Raditz and Son weren't in the frame together. It was two separate shots of them one after the other. In Kai, when they re-framed the shot they didn't crop this scene AT ALL, they took the two shots and combined them so Son and Piccolo are now in the Frame together.
This is exactly what I've been saying is probably going to happen. When they can crop and you only lose a bit of sky or ground, or just the characters' Stomachs, then they Crop, but during the fights when more important stuff gets lost, they are much more creative with the re-framing and redrawing.
there's also the completely new frames we're getting.
Kai is being MADE for 16:9. But that's the point, Toei has Made DBZ available in 4:3 and aren't discontinuing it. if you want 4:3, get DBZ. If you want 16:9, Get Kai

If Kai is separate, then we DON'T have the show in the original cel's 4:3 framing. It's not available.

If it's NOT separate, then we can toss out the "the Kai name means it's untouchable" nonsense.

You can pick one, not both. "It's not the same show" and "we already have the perfect release of the show" do not work together logically.

[Kendamu]

If Kai is separate, then we DON'T have the show in the original cel's 4:3 framing. It's not available.

If it's NOT separate, then we can toss out the "the Kai name means it's untouchable" nonsense.

You can pick one, not both. "It's not the same show" and "we already have the perfect release of the show" do not work together logically.

I'm sticking with the nonsense, myself. Dragonball Kai doesn't feel like Dragonball Z to me. The music, pacing, and framing make it feel different. It's not a "bad" different to me, though. It's a "good" different. Still, it's different. You can't sit me down with DBZ and call it Kai and you can't sit me down in front of Kai and call it DBZ. While they're the same story, they're both telling the story in very different ways. I can't just go, "I feel like watching some Kai," and pop in a DBZ Dragonbox Single to satisfy that feeling and I can't watch Kai to satisfy a need for DBZ.

They're as separate to me as the FUNi dub is to the Japanese version. They're as separate as the Ocean cast is to the FUNi cast. They're as separate as Budokai 3 is to Sparking Meteor... and just to run it into the ground, they're as separate to me as Path to Power is to the Pilaf and Red Ribbon arcs.

Same story. Different name. Different presentation. You may just see it as a poorly-done DBZ and I have no problem with that. I wish you could enjoy Kai as much as I do, but I'm not about to re-live the Planet Namek days where everyone acted legitimately surprised that Spirit vs. Spirit wasn't in the dub and everyone raged over it.

[SSj_Rambo]

Is anyone else pumped to see some beautiful, HD, widescreen, DBZ AMVs? 007 Vegita did some great workwith the widescreen season sets, but I think that Kai provides the materials for some even better works.

Side Note: Would anyone be apposed to me quoting all of the posts from the other (short-lived) DBK ep 3 threadinto one big post and putting it here? There was some very good immediate accounts of the episode there, and I really think they belong in the sticky...

[NeoKING]

Granted the mistakes for GT episode titles were MUCH MUCH bigger..That episode where Goku finally kills Bebi was originally going to be called "Only 5 Seconds To Leave Planet Tsufuru?!" or something.

Eh? How do we know this?

I'll try to look up the website, but it was a HUGE DB fansite that had interesting archives on GT when it was first coming on Japanese TV and gave weekly updates, just like how this website gives episode guides on KAI right now. That site had weekly episode tidbits from different sources such as V-Jump and Shonen Jump magazines. In one of the V-Jumps, the preview for the episode where Bebi dies was originally titled something that had to do with Planet Tsufuru exploding about 5 seconds after Bebi died. One issue that showcased SSJ4 Goku before the episode where he actually transforms calls it "Super Goku 4", implying it wasn't a real SSJ transformation but on the actual episode it was called SSJ4. These were just before the days where GT was subbed by Super5.com, you know, the infamous group with the inaccurate as hell subtitles.

[SSj_Rambo]

Granted the mistakes for GT episode titles were MUCH MUCH bigger..That episode where Goku finally kills Bebi was originally going to be called "Only 5 Seconds To Leave Planet Tsufuru?!" or something.

Eh? How do we know this?

I'll try to look up the website, but it was a HUGE DB fansite that had interesting archives on GT when it was first coming on Japanese TV and gave weekly updates, just like how this website gives episode guides on KAI right now. That site had weekly episode tidbits from different sources such as V-Jump and Shonen Jump magazines. In one of the V-Jumps, the preview for the episode where Bebi dies was originally titled something that had to do with Planet Tsufuru exploding about 5 seconds after Bebi died. One issue that showcased SSJ4 Goku before the episode where he actually transforms calls it "Super Goku 4", implying it wasn't a real SSJ transformation but on the actual episode it was called SSJ4. These were just before the days where GT was subbed by Super5.com, you know, the infamous group with the inaccurate as hell subtitles.

Was it Greg Werner's site?

http://www.thegrandline.com/dbzinfo/index.html

[kei17]

The rating slightly fell off this week, but is still good for a recycled show.

4/13-4/19

19.3%(18.8%) 04/19 18:30-19:00 CX* Sazae-san
13.0%(13.7%) 04/19 18:00-18:30 CX* Chibi Maruko-chan
10.1%(*8.8%) 04/19 *9:30-10:00 CX* One Piece
*9.6%(*9.8%) 04/19 *9:00-*9:30 CX* Dragon Ball Kai
*7.8%(*7.4%) 04/19 *8:30-*9:00 EX* Fresh! Pretty Cure
*7.5%(--.-%) 04/16 19:00-19:30 TX* Pokemon DP
*7.2%(*4.7%) 04/16 19:30-19:57 TX* Naruto Shippuden
*5.8%(*7.0%) 04/18 18:00-18:30 NTV Detective Conan (Case Closed)
*5.8%(*5.0%) 04/18 18:00-18:25 ETV Major
*5.3%(*4.3%) 04/19 *7:00-*7:30 NTV Yattaman

[ShinRogafuken]

The rating slightly fell off this week, but is still good for a recycled show.

4/13-4/19

19.3%(18.8%) 04/19 18:30-19:00 CX* Sazae-san
13.0%(13.7%) 04/19 18:00-18:30 CX* Chibi Maruko-chan
10.1%(*8.8%) 04/19 *9:30-10:00 CX* One Piece
*9.6%(*9.8%) 04/19 *9:00-*9:30 CX* Dragon Ball Kai
*7.8%(*7.4%) 04/19 *8:30-*9:00 EX* Fresh! Pretty Cure
*7.5%(--.-%) 04/16 19:00-19:30 TX* Pokemon DP
*7.2%(*4.7%) 04/16 19:30-19:57 TX* Naruto Shippuden
*5.8%(*7.0%) 04/18 18:00-18:30 NTV Detective Conan (Case Closed)
*5.8%(*5.0%) 04/18 18:00-18:25 ETV Major
*5.3%(*4.3%) 04/19 *7:00-*7:30 NTV Yattaman

So One Piece beat DB Kai this week. Cool.

[Tsukento]

Not only that, but One Piece, DBK AND Pokemon all beat out Naruto.

[NeoKING]

Eh? How do we know this?

I'll try to look up the website, but it was a HUGE DB fansite that had interesting archives on GT when it was first coming on Japanese TV and gave weekly updates, just like how this website gives episode guides on KAI right now. That site had weekly episode tidbits from different sources such as V-Jump and Shonen Jump magazines. In one of the V-Jumps, the preview for the episode where Bebi dies was originally titled something that had to do with Planet Tsufuru exploding about 5 seconds after Bebi died. One issue that showcased SSJ4 Goku before the episode where he actually transforms calls it "Super Goku 4", implying it wasn't a real SSJ transformation but on the actual episode it was called SSJ4. These were just before the days where GT was subbed by Super5.com, you know, the infamous group with the inaccurate as hell subtitles.

Was it Greg Werner's site?

http://www.thegrandline.com/dbzinfo/index.html

Nope, trust me, if it was that I would have remembered.

It was last year that I saw the site too...right when I was interested in Japanese DBGT episodes..Don't think it's around anymore.

[JulieYBM]

Not only that, but One Piece, DBK AND Pokemon all beat out Naruto.

Isn't Naruto back in filler land, though?

[DemonRin]

If Kai is separate, then we DON'T have the show in the original cel's 4:3 framing. It's not available.

If it's NOT separate, then we can toss out the "the Kai name means it's untouchable" nonsense.

You can pick one, not both. "It's not the same show" and "we already have the perfect release of the show" do not work together logically.

I'm afraid YOU'RE the one who is mixed up.
If Kai is separate, then Kai was MADE for 16:9, making THAT the proper aspect ratio.
and it actually is, They've been reframing the shots. And Before you say "Reframing is just another word for Cropping", watch the Raditz Fight in Episode 3. There are some REALLY nice instances of the reframing in there where they actually didn't crop ANYTHING!! One of which was where they took a scene that was two separate shots in Z and Merged them into One Shot for Kai, creating a new Shot that doesn't directly resemble the original shots at all. Not to mention there were some completely new frames during the fight, drawn in 16:9. If they made Fullscreen Kai, those shots would have to be cropped. So, you've got cropping either way.

Let me Repeat. If Kai is it's own Entity, then Kai is Being made specifically for 16:9.

[sailorspazz]

hella cute sounding voice....

Spread the word everybody. Sailorspazz likes 51 year old men!

Hey, as long he sounds hella cute, it doesn't matter if he's hella old.

Everyone else: "Stop saying hella!"

Yeah, whatever. Anyway, I'm sure in my years of Dragonball fandom, I've probably seen a picture or two of Horikawa Ryo, though I don't remember what he looks like at all, and any picture I would have seen would have probably been from the mid 90s, so he certainly looks older now than he did in the images I don't remember....it's much easier to just imagine him looking like Vegeta Now that's hella....licious?

I'm done now, really. Was there any point to this rambling? Uh....grrr, censorship! *shakes fist* When did Japan become mid-90s America?

[Kendamu]

hella cute sounding voice....

Spread the word everybody. Sailorspazz likes 51 year old men!

Hey, as long he sounds hella cute, it doesn't matter if he's hella old.

Everyone else: "Stop saying hella!"

Yeah, whatever. Anyway, I'm sure in my years of Dragonball fandom, I've probably seen a picture or two of Horikawa Ryo, though I don't remember what he looks like at all, and any picture I would have seen would have probably been from the mid 90s, so he certainly looks older now than he did in the images I don't remember....it's much easier to just imagine him looking like Vegeta Now that's hella....licious?

I'm done now, really. Was there any point to this rambling? Uh....grrr, censorship! *shakes fist* When did Japan become mid-90s America?

Having nothing to do with your post, I read your signature as, "Sorry, but Princess Snake is in another castle."

I need to go to bed.

[SHINOBI-03]

Going nitpicky... anybody noticed what's wrong with this scene?

[Kendamu]

Going nitpicky... anybody noticed what's wrong with this scene?

Ripped blue shirt that he wasn't wearing.

Took me a minute. Never would'a noticed otherwise.

[Gozar]

It's not like standards have changed for Japanese TV. Come on, the show that directly follows DragonBall Kai is one piece. Without a doubt the bloodiest Shonen series I know. I think of fights like Luffy against Lucci, near the end of that right. Right before Luffy's Gomu Gomu No Jet Gattling, Luffy takes a blast to the face and blood splatters like nuts.

On the contrary, times have changed. During the encounter between Law and Kid in One Piece, Law gives Kid the finger in the manga. In the anime, however, he just gives him a smug look. Same animation company and network as DBZ, which had its share of middle fingers.

I was really just referring to blood standards. I mean I know times have changed, such as chibi penis'. I have no problem with Baby Goku or Chibi Gohan's penis being edited. Because I understand that the times have changed with that. But this blood thing is foolish.