DBKai: Overall Saiyan Saga Opinion

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:00 am

I was relatively uninterested from the start after the initial buzz of the first episode, but the censorship managed to turn me off completely. The original has all of the same content and none of the hassle. Why change an unbroken formula?

Granted, I dislike filler as much as the next guy, but that doesn't justify arbitrarily removing content from the original film in my opinion--both through cropping and through the removal of "obscene" material (dicks and flesh wounds?! Call the FCC!).

Shiyonasan · Post by **Shiyonasan** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:10 am

I thought it was handled pretty good, but it went by too fast. Plus, I like watching the filler in this arc, so I'm a little biased.

I have been following it closely, but in the end, my preference is to just watch Z.

Tweaker wrote:The original has all of the same content and none of the hassle. Why change a broken formula?

Don't you mean an unbroken formula?

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:29 am

Err... yeah, that's totally what I meant. Whoops! XD

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:18 am

Kai_fan wrote:
As Kai goes on, and the controversies around it fade, I really think that fans are going to come to regard Z as inferior by comparison.

Kai really hasn't grabbed my attention at all. Maybe it works for the new generation of anime viewers. You know, the ones with no patience and short attention spans. Maybe when the dub comes out I'll give it another chance. But to me, it will never replace Z. If you don't like Z's filler, press fast foward.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:39 am

Raki wrote:You know, the ones with no patience

I haven't even seen Kai and I'm irritated by this. Wanting the characters to actually do something instead of stare at each other, disliking the camera cutting away from an epic battle to watch some bullshit like deer or the supporting cast grunting while lines wiggle on their faces is not a failure of patience.

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:23 am

Rocketman wrote:
Raki wrote:You know, the ones with no patience
I haven't even seen Kai and I'm irritated by this. Wanting the characters to actually do something instead of stare at each other, disliking the camera cutting away from an epic battle to watch some bullshit like deer or the supporting cast grunting while lines wiggle on their faces is not a failure of patience.

I've actually got to agree with Rocket on this one, the filler in DragonBall Z is atrociously bad in terms of frequency. I watched the Cell VS. Goku fight the other day, comparing it to the manga, and the amount of shots with Mr. Satan speaking with the camera crew and the others making the same damn comments over and over in the anime as opposed to the manga were startling.

I hated that when I first watched it. I felt like nothing could possibly happen without Satan having SOMETHING to say about it. I want to watch a fight, one of the most important in that arc up until then, not hear Mr. Satan and the anchor go on and on about how unbelievable what they're watching is. "It's a trick!" Was only funny the first three times. The tenth? Not so much.

To roll it back to the current arc, the Freeza battle is nearly unwatchable because of the amount of stare-downs, filler scenes, and drug out, uninspired dialogue shoved into it. DragonBall Z is a terrific show, but this was a huge problem. People say the same thing with Naruto Shippuuden today; the 1.3-1.7 chapters per episode has even non-manga readers furious.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:16 am

Raki wrote:
Kai_fan wrote:
As Kai goes on, and the controversies around it fade, I really think that fans are going to come to regard Z as inferior by comparison.
Kai really hasn't grabbed my attention at all. Maybe it works for the new generation of anime viewers. You know, the ones with no patience and short attention spans. Maybe when the dub comes out I'll give it another chance. But to me, it will never replace Z. If you don't like Z's filler, press fast foward.

Or, maybe it works for manga fans who have no specific attachment to the anime and would rather see their favorite scenes animated at a pace similar to the manga they love so much. Hell, my girlfriend likes DBZ a lot and she was frustrated with the Freeza filler, then bored and frustrated with the Cell filler, and then she just stopped watching before the Boo stuff ever started airing. The only reason she even knows the whole story is from reading my copies of the manga after we started living together.

Similar to what KaiserNeko said, DBZ can be a great show! There are parts of it that will stick out in my mind forever! But I don't think that I should have to fast-forward it all the time just to get it the way I want it, relatively filler-free, and not be considered part of some "impatient new generation" or whatever because it's closer to the version of the story I prefer most.

Besides, I'm 25. I can't stand the "new generation." ;P

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:58 am

VegettoEX wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:Hmm, so everyone here is supportive of Dragon Ball Kai?
No.

ShinRogafuken wrote:Anyone here who isn't liking how it's turning out?
/me raises hand

I'm just... so thoroughly disinterested.

More to come next week on the podcast.

Haha, and I thought I was the only one! Nice to know that's not true! I was surprised at the opinions in this thread because they were all supportive and I personally think its a waste.

Kezellz · Post by **Kezellz** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:31 am

I lost interest at around episode 3 or 4...

I still watch it every now and then, but only out of sheer curiosity of the handling of certain scenes.

The same for me. It was awful how some of the scenes were re-drawn.
And every time I think to give it another chance, Kai fails and fails

Plus the BGM is awful and overused already, but that's my opinion. Couldn't they use the same music but then redone?

Vino · Post by **Vino** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:51 am

Those redrawn scenes are horrid, are they even trying?

I think I will drop Kai until the interesting stuff happens.

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:37 pm

I'm loving it so far. Besides the censoring, the music and a couple of things here and there (Bulma's voice, some canon cut/filler kept in), it's great.

My main concern is definitely the music. Although it's still good in Kai, the original score was just legendary.

I'm afraid that because of the far superior pacing in Kai, I may not be able to go back to Z when marathoning the series in the future

Hopefully the quality of the Dragon Boxes will make me forget about the horrible pacing

theoriginalbilis · Post by **theoriginalbilis** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:19 pm

Overall, I'm enjoying it. I still like Z better, but this is an entertaining way to kill 20 minutes. The things I would change is having more of the original cast back, because it seems like they're replacing more and more of the cast. That and some of the "re-drawn" scenes look off.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:10 am

I am, too, liking Kai. In my opinion it is far superior to Z. The pace of the last is outrageous and I could never see an entire saga like I did I Kai.
My only complain is the BGM of Kai. The Z's is a lot better.

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:35 am

Eh, it's ok. Z's better.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:57 am

Raki wrote:Kai really hasn't grabbed my attention at all. Maybe it works for the new generation of anime viewers. You know, the ones with no patience and short attention spans. Maybe when the dub comes out I'll give it another chance. But to me, it will never replace Z. If you don't like Z's filler, press fast foward.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Time out here. For years and years I have heard complaints about filler and how the Manga is gold. It wasn't until 2004 that I started reading the Manga. I now feel the way that others were trying to convince me of during my first few years of fandom that I simply did not understand. Now we have a completely separate product giving us what we essentially wanted but couldn't have due to the Manga and Anime running so close to each other. Yet people are now complaining about THAT? I'm sorry, but that's just silly to me.

Anyway, my general feelings on the first Saga of Kai...I started off not liking it, but it's really grown on me A LOT. After 2-3 Episodes I was really uninterested. After Episode 7 I dropped the series. My girlfriend watched a whopping half an Episode up until just a few weeks ago. Then about 3 weeks ago, my girlfriend and I began watching the series together from Episode 1. Maybe it was because I had a fellow DragonBall fanatic to watch it with and we could comment on certain things together. But I found it SO ENJOYABLE. Her and I are now fully caught up with the series.

There were things that at first I didn't like. Namely the color pallet and the musical score. But both of these things grew on me over time. It's just that it was so different than what I was used to that it completely threw me off. But now I really enjoy it for what it is. Not saying I like it better than Z. But keep in mind, Kai is not being marketed towards us. It's being marketed towards the new generation of 9-12 year old's in Japan who never got to watch the series and don't have the money to spend on such expensive DVD's.

Kai succeeds very much so in that...I really enjoy the musical score. It's a more modern Shonen Anime feel. Like something you'd hear in One Piece or Naruto. Yet at the same time gives you a few pieces that sound like something you'd hear in the Original Z. Namely when they play a Dragon Soul instrumental. I really enjoy that song as a whole. I think Dragon Soul, both lyrically and instrumentally has a very DragonBall feel to it.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:50 am

Kai has failed to maintain my interest. I honestly stopped watching regularly about 7-8 episodes in. I've snagged about...three episodes, I think, since then. The most recent being 18.

I'm considering picking back up to see the Namek arc, simply because that's the one I consider actually unwatchable due to filler. The entirety of the Z Saiyan arc is just excellent for me, so it's not something that can really be fixed all that much. Maybe applying the Kai formula to the Freeza arc will turn out better for me?

Gozar wrote: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Time out here. For years and years I have heard complaints about filler and how the Manga is gold. It wasn't until 2004 that I started reading the Manga. I now feel the way that others were trying to convince me of during my first few years of fandom that I simply did not understand. Now we have a completely separate product giving us what we essentially wanted but couldn't have due to the Manga and Anime running so close to each other. Yet people are now complaining about THAT? I'm sorry, but that's just silly to me.

First of all, not everyone said that. Personally, I find relatively very little of the actual filler to be boethersome, and I love a lot of the better filler.

More than that, there's the point about execution. They may have cut the fat, but they also cut a good deal of the good aspects of the original execution as well. Cut away too much, and somebody is going to feel like something is definitely missing.

And then there's the musical score. And the aspect ratio. And the difference in vocal delivery of lines that we've known for years now. And censorship.

When Raditz met with Piccolo, the resulting confrontation was a bad sign for me: it felt like Raditz had landed with the express purpose of leaving as soon as possible. The show speeds along at a pace that makes it feel less like a martial arts epic and more like a typical high-intensity action cartoon.

A lot of the ideas behind Kai aren't bad ones, and even most of the decisions sound pretty damn good on paper.

But some indecipherable, indescribable special something is lost in the translation from Z to Kai. It's a something that gives the anime its appeal to me. While I can watch any episode of the Saiyan arc of Z, filler or not, and be enthralled....I have to struggle to get through an episode of Kai.

But now I really enjoy it for what it is. Not saying I like it better than Z. But keep in mind, Kai is not being marketed towards us. It's being marketed towards the new generation of 9-12 year old's in Japan who never got to watch the series and don't have the money to spend on such expensive DVD's.

I don't see why I should have to look at a product in someone else's eyes just because it's being marketed to them. I want to see its value to me, regardless of who it happens to be marketed toward. And if I don't happen to share the opinion of some Toei Executive's idea of the modern Japanese primary school child, pretending to be this hypothetical child or eschewing my own preferences because it's meant for that audience doesn't seem right. It's not marketed to me, fine. Do I still enjoy it? No, I don't. Ah well.

Kai succeeds very much so in that...I really enjoy the musical score. It's a more modern Shonen Anime feel. Like something you'd hear in One Piece or Naruto. Yet at the same time gives you a few pieces that sound like something you'd hear in the Original Z. Namely when they play a Dragon Soul instrumental. I really enjoy that song as a whole. I think Dragon Soul, both lyrically and instrumentally has a very DragonBall feel to it.

I love the Opening and Ending themes, but that's about it...the score in the show itself just feels so uninspired and forgettable. At best, it echoes the original score in a fairly faithful way. At worst, it's just awful(Gohan sparring with Piccolo). But usually, it's just background noise to me, without any sense of identity or spirit.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:37 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:When Raditz met with Piccolo, the resulting confrontation was a bad sign for me: it felt like Raditz had landed with the express purpose of leaving as soon as possible.

He did. He was gonna leave as soon as he saw it wasn't Kakarot.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:04 pm

I watch kai every week and haven't missed an episode yet.

However, it just makes me realize how the show should have been re-animated like the op and ed.

Freeza.exe · Post by **Freeza.exe** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:53 pm

I thought the Saiya-jin arc in Kai was great. I adored how much fat they trimmed to make it very to the point. I really loved the redrawn vibrant colors and hearing my favorite voices in something other then mono was a trip. I honestly can't say I ever got bored while watching Kai. Usually when it comes to Dragonball the filler is so bad I can't digest more then 2 episodes at a time but with this abridged version I feel like I could watch the entire arc in one go.
I didn't like them cutting canon material but to be fair they didn't cut out anything overly important in the grand scheme of things. The only censorship that bugged me was Son Gouku's weird bruise from Piccolo's Makankosappo. That really stood out like a sore thumb.

I really miss the old music but some of the new tracks aren't bad. It looks like we'll be getting more insert songs so I'm excited for that. The new voice acting doesn't sound bad to me just updated.

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:21 pm

Castor Troy wrote:I watch kai every week and haven't missed an episode yet.

However, it just makes me realize how the show should have been re-animated like the op and ed.

Y'know, I see comments like this and I have to honestly ask, does anyone really think that Toei was ever going to invest the time, money, and work into reanimating 100 episodes of a 20 year old show? This was a guaranteed way to make them money and the closest thing they had to a solid game-plan on how to re-air the series in a way that was close to anything new and fresh. Reanimating the show would have been incredibly costly and risky for them in comparison and probably rarely ever crossed their minds.

Kanzenshuu

DBKai: Overall Saiyan Saga Opinion

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