Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

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VegettoEX
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Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:21 pm

Episode #0217 (download MP3) (rss feed)
74:46; 96 kbps, mono; 51.3 MB

Episode #0217! VegettoEX, Meri, and Jeff dive into Volume 34 in our "Manga Review of Awesomeness". The Cell Game has finally begun, and Goku has just as quickly turned it on over to the next fighter. Was the build-up to Gohan done as well as it could have been, and are we buying it? Was this also the last great transformation sequence in the series? Our live broadcast covers a bunch of questions from the audience, talk about the upcoming new closing theme to "Kai", and so much more! Referenced sites:
Enjoy the 96 kbps encode these days! Whoa! Enjoy the show (we had fun recording, as always!), thanks to the awesome number of awesome people who showed up for the live broadcast with very little notice, and we'll see you next week!

w0rd.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by RoarkVegeta » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:33 pm

Ah, yes! This shall put me to sleep tonight (In a good way :P.)

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Lance Freeman » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:04 pm

Ahh yes, the live show was fun last night. I'm always a fan of bloopers.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by penguintruth » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:45 pm

There's no way Trunks' SSJ transformation in the Trunks special is anywhere near as amazing as Gohan's SSJ2 transformation. All of Z up until then lead to that moment, all of the hinting about Gohan's hidden power and how it comes out in his rage, all of that comes up to that breaking point. Trunks is just some kid in the future we barely have a connection to, and while his transformation was cool-looking, it didn't really didn't have the same impact.

Not only is this scene one of my favorites in the manga, but by far my favorite in the TV series, and one of the best moments I've ever experienced in anime. It's just so perfect the way it's set up.

Also, it's not that Gohan is a pacifist, he just doesn't enjoy fighting the way his father does.

Anyway, the Cell Games is definitely my favorite part of Dragon Ball. I cannot wait to get the TV version on a Dragon Box.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by B » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:49 pm

Now, when FUNimation says they don't want to release the movies until they get a good read on the sales of the DBOX, do they mean individually, as a huge set a la the Japanese one, double features, or something?

I guess I should listen to the actual podcast instead of reading the front page before I post, but whatevs. Will listen and look around.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Ex-Dubbie369 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:56 pm

penguintruth wrote:Also, it's not that Gohan is a pacifist, he just doesn't enjoy fighting the way his father does.
True, but it seemed like, after the fight with Nappa, Gohan did what needed to be done. He wouldn't just be all "Oh, hi Mr. Bad Guy, I don't wanna fight you 'cause I don't like fighting." It felt like his character had regressed from the Gohan who went toe to toe with Vegeta, fought Recoome til he got his neck broken, and even did as much as he could (though futile) against Freeza.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by TheLastSaiyan » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:05 am

Another great podcast, my guess it that you'll probably due a "Movie Review of Awesomeness." Well at least for 17 podcasts, after that perhaps if you're really daring a "Episode Review of Awesomeness." Of course at that point you might as well combine episodes in groups and get into a conversation about what role voice acting plays in a manga adaptation, filler, the love but mostly hate relationship, do movie characters act like their manga/anime counterparts, and how music can completely change an atmosphere. To be honest at that point you guys should be set set for around 100 more Reviews of Awesomeness. Again you're sneaky Mike, so I could be dead wrong.

-Daizex Podcasts always make my time working on my Thesis go so much faster. :)
Last edited by TheLastSaiyan on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by penguintruth » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:06 am

Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:
penguintruth wrote:Also, it's not that Gohan is a pacifist, he just doesn't enjoy fighting the way his father does.
True, but it seemed like, after the fight with Nappa, Gohan did what needed to be done. He wouldn't just be all "Oh, hi Mr. Bad Guy, I don't wanna fight you 'cause I don't like fighting." It felt like his character had regressed from the Gohan who went toe to toe with Vegeta, fought Recoome til he got his neck broken, and even did as much as he could (though futile) against Freeza.
He didn't regress, he was just informing Cell that a fight with him would be different than that with his father. Clearly, Gohan doesn't really relish fighting the way is father does. Gohan wasn't able to fight anyone well enough until he got angry enough, and he knew it. He was just being honest.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:50 am

The way I see it is that Gohan was able to put up a fight in his early appearances is because he was the only person left who could do anything. He was up against a corner, everyone else around him was dead or dying, and he did what he had to do. By the Cell Arc, everyone was alive. There were so many other people that could have fought in his place, so many people he believed were better qualified, and, up to that point, Gohan hadn't been tasked to do much. He had just spent the past year straight training as well as three years before that. In fact, the only time he'd had off to do what he wanted (working towards being a scholar) since he was four was the one year after Freeza was defeated on Namek. I'm sure as far as he was concerned, he'd done his duty.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by worldmonsters » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:23 am

What always struck me about the Gohan Super Saiyajin 2 transformation is that I think Gohan knew that Android 16 couldn't be wished back and that if he dies or gets destroyed, that's it. Also there's the time between the training and the Cell Games so I think Gohan can't not know what Android 16 is like. But that should've been expanded on in the manga and the anime, and it wasn't.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:49 am

404 JeffTM. Best - Joke - Ever!
Another great podcast, my guess it that you'll probably due a "Movie Review of Awesomeness."
I thought about this yesterday as well. When you are done with the manga in at least seven months, make Jeff watch the movies.

We want to know his favorite release of Dead Zone... we want to know if he will like or dislike Broli... we want to know if he will fall crazy for Janemba... we want to know if he will like or dislike the story behind Hildegarn's name... and other things as well...!!

At least seven months...!!

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:19 am

Are you guys going to do a review of Yo! Son Goku and his friends return!!! ?
Or have you already?

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:29 am

Silver Sinspawn wrote:Are you guys going to do a review of Yo! Son Goku and his friends return!!! ?
Or have you already?
The special itself? yes they did.

The DVD? No.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:53 am

I meant the manga version.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Son Wukong » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:53 am

''He's banging the chick with the radar''

Best laugh I'll have this week. :lol:

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Vegeta Jr » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:57 pm

I think Gohan's reaction to 16 was more about what 16 represents, not that he was portrayed as being close to him in any semblance.

16 was a robot who was made to kill Goku, however this big metal junk had genuine emotion and cared for Earth and it's beauty, Cell was just going to casually destroy it for naught and it just ticked Gohan off.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Rory » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:28 pm

I've always saw it as Gohan basically needing a wake-up call. His friends are being beaten to death around him, but he just can't seem to get that right "kick" to push him beyond his limits.
I've never saw it as Gohan caring about #16 as much as his friends, more along the lines of Gohan seeing #16 get stomped as a wake-up call, Cell will kill everybody, just as he killed #16 right before Gohan's eyes. He doesn't care, he can't be reasoned with and his friends lives are absolutely worthless to him. They will die. To me, this is what pushes Gohan over the edge, no personal attachment to #16, just the sudden realization that his friends are fucked, and there's no reason to hold back anymore.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by kenisu3000 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:31 pm

"The bird is cheesy"?

But... but...

I like the bird.

Wow. Look, um, making comics is not an easy thing. I draw a webcomic and I don't have the slightest clue how the professionals pull off those insane deadlines, let alone pull it off and retain some shred of sanity! How can we expect to always get a super-deep and perfectly in-character storyline when it was just Toriyama (and maybe his assistant? and his editor making suggestions) coming up with the plot? He had wanted to end the series long before, and part of that probably stemmed from feeling like he was stretching himself beyond his capabilities. No wonder there's so much stuff in the latter part of the series that just screams for an attack by facepalming fans.

Honestly, Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 transformation was what converted me to the Japanese version. That's got to count for something.

I know, we're all fans, and we nitpick by our very nature, but really. Give our favorite comic-makers some breathing room.

EDIT: Just for the record, I'm very well aware that the whole business with the superimposed bird was anime-only (I mean shoot, volume 34 was the very first volume of DragonBall manga I ever bought, simply because I wanted to see how The Scene differed from the anime... and also because, like a dork, I wanted to read and learn Cell's "Yokei na o-sewa da... dekisokonai me!"), but I loved both versions in their respective ways.

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:17 am

Well, I still believe that the transformation was strange. Why 16?
Why not Piccolo, or Goku, or Krillin?
Someone he had an emotional connection with maybe?

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Re: Episode #0217 (18 April 2010)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:03 am

Probably a combination of playing it safe and attempting emotional resonance. By this point, I'm sure DB was well-known for characters dying reversible deaths. It was also established that nearly all of the other characters had already died, thus making resurrection more complicated. #16 was one character Toriyama could kill off that 1. would actually be able to stay dead and 2. wouldn't affect the long-term status quo of the characters. Granted, my argument falters a bit when Goku dies just a bit later, especially considering that Toriyama might have meant for him to stay permanently dead at that point. But, still, even he gets to speak from beyond the grave. #16 at least had permanent, uncompromising death, and that might have been what Toriyama wanted as the trigger for Gohan's rage.

Well, that's the best I can come up with.... :D

That said, maybe it would have been better if he had Trunks be the catalyst and then have Shenlong invoke some rule that he couldn't bring him back to life since Trunks was from a different timeline and, thusly, out of Shenlong's jurisdiction. It would have been a character that Gohan had something of an emotional connection to, and it also would have made the arc more poignant, as Trunks committed the ultimate self-sacrifice in order to save a timeline that wasn't even his from the destruction that he had witnessed. Granted, we wouldn't have gotten the uplifting denoument of Trunks saving his own future, but, hey, can't have everything, can we?

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