Marketing Of And Education About "Kai"

[VegettoEX]

Something Hujio and I have talked about a few times on the podcast was the marketing of DragonBall Kai, and specifically that from FUNimation. Our... let's say "concern" (since I can't really think of a better word) is that with their constant re-releases (with the worst offender being the orange bricks, irregardless of their visual treatment but more in terms of their marketing), FUNimation has thoroughly confused the general fanbase. We all like to think that fans visit websites, read news, and are otherwise pretty on-the-ball.

Well, they're not.

Most recently we talked about FUNimation's teaser trailer for "Kai" volume one, and how they very carefully (and intelligently so) stayed away from words like "definitive" and such, and relied more upon phrases like "director's cut". At the end of the day, though... the trailer didn't say what the damn thing was. Was it a re-release? Was it a new series? Was it just a re-dub?

Here's what really solidifies it for me. This is an Amazon review posted just a week ago:

I might be totally mistaken so someone correct me if I am wrong. But is the Dragon Box set not Dragon Ball: Kai? I could have sworn that it was.

I'd be one thing if this were just a one-off comment... but it's not. Time and time again we see confused comments like this popping up on Amazon, YouTube videos, and FUNimation's own blog posts. When their own fans who do follow their online presence don't understand what the product is, what hope is there for the general anime fandom?

There may be a few of us out there, but the general population of Daizenshuu EX's readership and message board posters probably aren't business and marketing professionals. Then again, we do have a nice little older fanbase, so there might be...! I'm not asking you folks which version you like more -- that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. In your opinion, what do you think FUNimation needs to do with this series to tell the fans what the heck it is?

Are they hoping that the TV broadcast, which we now know will be on at least two channels in North America (Nicktoons + The CW), will speak for itself and educate the fanbase? Why aren't they going on the offensive ahead of time and really playing up the fact that this is "new"...? This is airing in Japan right now...?

Would saying too much about it jeopardize their concurrent Dragon Box releases? Have they backed themselves into a corner where it's apparent that the Dragon Box sets are for the "hardcore" fans, but they still have to rely on some general retail purchases to string them along... and focusing too heavily on Kai throws a heavy wrench into that plan?

Do they just not have the resources (employees + time) to really take care of the situation? We know they changed brand managers for the series within the last few months, so perhaps they just don't have a centralized person with enough back-history and knowledge to really take charge?

Thoughts? There's probably no "answer", but this is genuinely one of those conversations where I think crowd-sourcing some opinions/thoughts/recommendations would make for a really nice thread.

[dan2026]

I agree wholeheartedly that Funimation have made a mess of the marketing of Kai.
They should have made it clear from the outset that it is essentially a DBZ manga cut.
Clarifying exactly how it varies to the 'original' series.

While it is bizarre that they are essentially competing with themselves, Dragon Box vs Kai.
I feel that it shouldn't be too hard to market each product separately.
Perhaps pushing the Dragon Boxes to the 'hardcore' fans and collectors and Kai to new fans or old fans who are daunted by the humongous episode count of the original series.

Funimation should defiantly focus on what the strengths of Kai are relative to the other series, if they want it to sell. (Better Audio/New Dub/Pacing etc)

Thinking about it, I have to wonder if a heavily censored tv version of Kai is really going to help them in the long run.

[Li'l Lemmy]

It's my opinion that the current DragonBox releases play into the story to at least some degree.

Recall that even so far back as when the Boxes were first hinted at, questions regarding Kai were always sidelined with "we're working on it". At the time, I took that as a tell-all/tell-nothing answer to say that they were actively pursuing it but hadn't made any real headway, and looking back I think my instinct was correct.

The DragonBoxes were announced this past summer at Otakon, but who knows how long FUNimation had kept that news to themselves? Perhaps those rights had been secured even before the Season Sets had finished their run that same May. Dunno about y'all, but I sure wouldn't make announcements concerning a new release of Z until my current release had been given every chance to max out its exposure and profits. The fact that the announcement was made almost immediately after the Season Sets were over and done with seems to suggest exactly this sort of strategy-- they HAD the DragonBoxes earlier in the year, but wisely sat on them to leave the DragonBall market uncluttered. THIS is the perfect model for what should be done with multiple releases of the same series . . . although I personally would have waited even longer to give DragonBall a chance to breathe.

I believe that FUNi may have not anticipated acquiring the rights to Kai so soon. When they announced the Boxes, they were "working on it". The only thing I'm not really understanding in all this is why they shot themselves in the foot by announcing the Kai license. Yeah, the excitement is great, but they must've gone through some shit to get the DragonBoxes. I'd have been more patient if I were Gen.

So what can be done now that we're after the fact? I think adding the Z in Kai is a good first step, but I think there needs to be more education. And television would be the perfect medium. FUNimation has never really utilized this source for advertising purposes, especially when it comes to DragonBall. (The only TV spot I have ever seen for a Z release was for Movie #10.) Perhaps they have never really needed it-- DragonBall is always a big seller, even if FUNi ain't a big talker. But now the game has changed. If they want Goku to stay on top, then I think they need to give him a leg up. The singles, the Ultimate Uncuts, the Season Sets, the Dragon Boxes and now Kai? Why should people care? It's not even enough to simply distinguish between the releases (which FUNi is making a terrible job of doing anyway) but also to explain why each is worth buying. Kai especially warrants this type of service, because the differences between it and the previous releases are even more ambiguous to the uneducated fan than the differences between the DragonBoxes and the Season Sets.


~Da Lemmy

[JulieYBM]

For one, I think they need to advertise it as a new series. Adding the 'Z' only confuses things. If they were to carefully explain what Dragon Ball Kai was created for (the 20th anniversary of Dragon Ball Z) and what makes it different from their current Dragon Ball Z releases (the new audio, music, pacing, and whatever) they'd be good. Then again, does admitting its origins come with a negative connotation? Are they afraid of mentioning Dragon Ball Z is twenty?

[VegettoEX]

Are they afraid of mentioning Dragon Ball Z is twenty?

Possibly, because it isn't... for them. It's hovering around 15-16 years for them, and only about 11 of those years are a period of time they even acknowledge exist, anymore (1999 onward).

Something I've always railed on them for was treating it as "new-hotness" when... uhh... it's not. Well, here's your chance. Treat the new hotness as new hotness. However, as discussed... that's almost at the expense of the concurrent product release (Dragon Box sets), a situation that Lemmy described quite well.

So the question still remains... how do they educate their fan-base and potential audience? Does education even work...?

[Li'l Lemmy]

I think it works if it doesn't pander to the lowest common denominator. I think FUNimation would be surprised at the reaction if they launched a reasonable advertising campaign that builds excitement through the release with education and a little hype. This is such new territory for DragonBall that I doubt FUNimation is even aware of the option, but with attitudes toward the series changing I think it's an attitude they themselves should look into.


~Da Lemmy

[Amigo Ten]

If the official they put had just been more direct and simply said "New music, new dub, and re-edited", rather than the "Director's cut, like you've never seen it before!" stuff I doubt there would be much of a problem.

It might be the case that their original dub of Dragon Ball is so popular as it is they're afraid of putting people off by telling them exactly what Kai is. There was certainly complaint when the Dragon Boxes were revealed to not have Funi's music. So they just get some general hype out there to at least get people to watch the broadcast before passing judgement. Of course, the censored broadcast might put people off, but there's always the promise of the uncut home release.

And then there's the fact that those people who haven't been following Kai in Japan won't actually know what's been cut in the first place. Who people who see Kai for the first time on Nicktoons or 4Kids might well order the uncut DVDs and be expecting all the blood and stuff that was there in Z.

[JulieYBM]

Are they afraid of mentioning Dragon Ball Z is twenty?

Possibly, because it isn't... for them. It's hovering around 15-16 years for them, and only about 11 of those years are a period of time they even acknowledge exist, anymore (1999 onward).

Something I've always railed on them for was treating it as "new-hotness" when... uhh... it's not. Well, here's your chance. Treat the new hotness as new hotness. However, as discussed... that's almost at the expense of the concurrent product release (Dragon Box sets), a situation that Lemmy described quite well.

So the question still remains... how do they educate their fan-base and potential audience? Does education even work...?

A good point, but with the way they've tried to play up the "FROM JAPAN OMFGBBQ!!!" you'd think...maybe that would come into play a bit, offering it as a 'Majestic King of Ye Olden Days'. Of course, that might just sour the experience in their minds.

[Li'l Lemmy]

When the Season Sets were first coming out, there surfaced a lengthy trailer dedicated to highlighting the key "definitive" differences between those sets and previous releases that detailed things like the new aspect ratio and the improved picture quality. These were, for the most part, lies, but I think the general approach would be the right one for explaining Kai.


~Da Lemmy

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm not sure the problem is with how they're specifically marketing Kai... well, let me rephrase that. Obviously since there are people who don't know what's going on, there is a problem, but I don't know if that's really FUNimation's fault in regards to their trailer. "Closer to the manga director's cut" pretty much sums up what the show is. And we're in an age where any fan with the smallest amount of curiosity can just run to Wikipedia, type in Dragon Ball Kai and find out what it is. It's not a huge mystery.

I think the problem is FUNimation's multiple releases biting them in the asses, especially because of the season sets. That got a marketing push as "definitive" "professional" "remastered". It was tech-heavy, despite the tech being a garbled mess of lies. And, of course, those of us in the know called them on it. In essence, the Dragon Boxes were the response to that. The only problem is, I don't think FUNimation is ready to admit that they failed with the season sets, especially considering the season set line is still ongoing. Therefore, the Dragon Box ads have hyped up "fun" and "memes" and "upbeat" rather than praising the technological improvements and completeness that are the real draws. Nothing wrong with "fun" and "upbeat", except that, in light of the season sets, it doesn't tell uninformed fans why they should buy this. The flyer on the back of the box does, but not the commercials. So to those who bought into the season sets, the Dragon Boxes are a confusing double dipping. A few more episodes per box, a nicer packaging, but, really, what's the point?

And now, at the same time, there's Kai! The possibility that I fear of it stealing thunder from the Dragon Boxes is not really relevant to this thread. But it is the third release "boxset" of Z now, and it's running concurrently with the Boxes, which also haven't necessarily been adequately explained. So it's not surprising that people are just confused. So I don't think it's Kai's advertising specifically. I think it's the huge plethora of different releases right on top of one another that's having the collective fanbase scratching their heads and struggling to keep up.

I'm not sure what I would have done differently. I would like to say I would have spaced out Kai a bit, saved it until after the Dragon Boxes. But then again, there are a lot of people who know about it and are clammoring for it, and FUNimation is smart to capitalize on it while it's "the new hotness." But then again, judging on how many people don't seem to know what it is, it might not have made any difference if they had waited a year or two. Then at least, there wouldn't be both this and the Dragon Boxes at the same time.

And, Mike, "irregardless"? Really?

[VegettoEX]

And, Mike, "irregardless"? Really?

Trust me, I sat and thought about it before I typed it. Then I typed it. Then I sat and thought about it some more. I liked the way it sounded more than the (more correct) "regardless". Then I posted it. Then I hoped no-one would notice.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

The advertisements for Kai don't really say much about what the show really is, and there are going to be people in the dark but you have to ask: "do they care?"
Think about it, outside of the more dedicated fan base: the fan base that follows Funimation on their site, the fan base who hangs out here, you know the "hardcore" audience, do you think anyone else really cares? The people who watched the show at home every day, but did nothing else, would probably pick up the old season sets for about $25 a set and move on with their life. Dragonball(in general) isn't in the mainstream anymore, Funimation doesn't have the money to spend on the advertisement for a 10 year old show. Anyone who cares about Dragonball knows about the product(and all it's releases) already, and if anyone is curious about each release the information is there for them on the internet.


Of course this might all change when/if Kai is a big success on the CW and Nicktoons. If they gain a new audience and kids fall in love with Kai then expect new,more informative, advertisements and a lot more of them at that.

[Kendamu]

The majority of fans I run into fall into three categories:

1) "I'm in-the-know about the releases, I know what I'm buying, and I'm getting the best thing for me. Also, if it's important enough, I'll double-dip because I'm a nerd. If my name is Mike, I own too many copies of DBZ Movie 1 and can't get enough of that Garlicy goodness."

2) "I really don't care. I just want to watch the show because I like it. I'll stick with [certain release] to stay on the safe side and not double-dip. However, that version with less filler I heard about seems cool. What's it called again?"

3) "This dub isn't really uncut! Gohan and Trunks say 'fuck' all the time in the JAP version! 4:3 is for faggots and retards! I'm gonna go drink a few protein shakes and sit on the couch and watch old UFC fights because that's how I'm gonna become as strong as Vegeta in Dragonball AF! My uncle works at Toho and told me it's true!"

Category #1 consists of the people I meet here and a couple people I know in-person. We're big enough nerds to get the news first. Hell, one of the guys I know in-person texted me in all-caps the second the US DBox release got announced.

Category #2 consists of a slightly larger amount of people I know in-person and a minority of people I find on other forums and chatrooms. The people I know in-person who are like this usually ask Category #1 people (like us) their questions and they're generally nice people. They don't need any extra effort to be educated.

Category #3 makes up the overwhelming majority of people I've ever ran into online and in-person regarding Dragonball and I don't think they even want to be educated because they already "know" everything and will not ever even start to entertain the idea that there may be more info out there that they don't know just yet. They don't deserve the effort. They're the reason I refuse to talk about Dragonball in public where I can be heard.

Unfortunately, there's a very small percentage of people who aren't in any of those categories and they're in an unfortunate situation. Hopefully they're smart enough to do the research to find out that FUNi's releasing the DBox as regular oldschool DBZ and releasing Kai as their "new hotness" Director's Cut because most normal people would probably research the difference between a normal version and a Director's Cut.

Hopefully once FUNi's official Kai site goes live it'll clear up a lot of the confusion.

Yes, I said Toho on purpose.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

More educative ideas in DBZKai. I can really trust the feeling that schoolkids and teens (JK-8, 9-12) will get the idea that they should familiarize with anime and the Dragon Ball series and story since we are in Generation Z.

More to the point that they are the difference between the Normal series and the Director's Cut version, they can target any audience in the US and Canada at some point this decade, Luckily, I own 5 orange bricks for 5 months and never watched 1 single episode on DVD. The Japanese version is more glorified these days. Look back in 1995-1998, they had DB/DBZ Censored for younger children and this? 4Kids claimed to be the "educated" ones for TV. Back in the day, I turned on the TV at 5:00 PM to catch Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z on YTV, but up until then, Dragon Ball aired at 8:00 Weeknights, DBZ at 8:30 Mondays-Thursdays, and DBGT 8:30 Fridays back in 2004-2005. That's the only FUNimation dub I got, episodes 68-182.

In the DVD releases, hardcore fans claimed they wanted 100% pure uncut/uncensored material. That just gets to my mind according to my standards.

For one, I think they need to advertise it as a new series. Adding the 'Z' only confuses things. If they were to carefully explain what Dragon Ball Kai was created for (the 20th anniversary of Dragon Ball Z) and what makes it different from their current Dragon Ball Z releases (the new audio, music, pacing, and whatever) they'd be good. Then again, does admitting its origins come with a negative connotation? Are they afraid of mentioning Dragon Ball Z is twenty?

For one, I think they need to advertise it as a new series. Adding the 'Z' only confuses things. If they were to carefully explain what Dragon Ball Kai was created for (the 20th anniversary of Dragon Ball Z) and what makes it different from their current Dragon Ball Z releases (the new audio, music, pacing, and whatever) they'd be good. Then again, does admitting its origins come with a negative connotation? Are they afraid of mentioning Dragon Ball Z is twenty?

Perhaps no glory. Dragon Ball is 26 years old since its inception in 1984. DB anime is 24. DBZ is 21, DBGT is 14.

[Xyex]

Would saying too much about it jeopardize their concurrent Dragon Box releases? Have they backed themselves into a corner where it's apparent that the Dragon Box sets are for the "hardcore" fans, but they still have to rely on some general retail purchases to string them along... and focusing too heavily on Kai throws a heavy wrench into that plan?

I think this is the problem. They're afraid to push Kai as something new and special, possibly even to push it as the 'entire series' in a more 'compact and cheap' form, because of what it might do to the DBox sales. Of course, this stems from not differentiating the two releases enough.

If they were to market the DBoxes as the "Original complete series, remastered from the original prints for the greatest picture clarity" and with the tag "Own the entire DBZ epic" while pushing Kai as a "Manga cut, faster paced, new music, more action focused, re-cutting of Kai, featuring a brand new dub (with some new voices, too!) more accurate to the original version" you could easily market both versions to the same people, and even have the same people willing to buy both.

Hype up the boxes as "the series you grew up on" and Kai as something new and fresh and exciting.

I can think of only two reasons that they pushed Kai out so fast, while the DBoxes are still going. The first is because they wanted to get something back on TV again. TV airings are more money for them, after all. The second is they wanted to get into the Kai market before the 'newness' of it faded. With the new internet age it's not hard to see Kai as it airs in Japan. Not to mention they likely want to get the product out in order to get the sales from those who would otherwise be importing the Japanese release instead.

For one, I think they need to advertise it as a new series. Adding the 'Z' only confuses things.

I feel that adding the Z clarifies things. Toei should have done it from the start. Kai only covers the Z portion of the anime. "Manga cut" or not, it doesn't start with Goku as a boy in the mountains by himself. It starts with Raditz showing up and telling him he's fro outer space. Beyond that "DragonBall Kai" sounds more like a unique series (DragonBall Z, DragonBall GT) than "Dragonball Z: Kai" does. DBZK expresses that the series is what it is, a "new" version of Z.

'sides, Toei stipulated that they add the Z to it. So it wasn't even their call.

[dragondyle]

Great. I knew this would happen. Sounds to me like FUNimation fucked themselves over. They should have finished releasing all of the Dragon Boxes in America first. Once that was over, wait a few months and THEN put Kai out on the market. Now they are just messing with customers who don't know what the hell this is or what is going on.

[Kendamu]

I think that was the plan and Navarre's financial press release thingy from several months back sort of messed up that plan. Right after, everyone was asking FUNimation about Kai and they were quick to try and throw some stuff together. Really, though, I feel like the initial plan was to release Kai a bit later.

In the end, though, I'm not sure if this really hurts Dragon Box sales. Not too many people outside of this little community were too excited about them to begin with. They all had their Orange Bricks and were happy with them. FUNimation wasn't about to get money from them anytime soon, anyway.

[Cipher]

Funimation just needs to be straight and cut the shit, and I'm certain there's a way to do that without degrading any of their own, simultaneous releases.

It wouldn't reach everyone, but a marketing-free summary of what exactly each product is on their website would go a long way.

1) Season Sets: Funimation's own remastering process, automated, widescreen cropped-top-and-bottom with extra footage on sides, lower price, three audio tracks

2) Dragon Box: Originally a Japanese remaster, full screen, frame-by-frame restoration, complete opening, default Japanese, full next-episode previews, two audio tracks, collector-oriented packaging, higher price point.

I don't see how those need to take away from each other at all. It's a matter of a higher-end, higher-price product versus a cheaper, lower-quality product. And it doesn't even need to be stated so matter-of-factly. Add the audio track discrepencies and it's clearly a matter of different strokes for different folks. And finally:

3) Dragon Ball Z Kai: New reversioning of series created in Japan for 20th anniversary, new music, newly remastered and re-animated footage, new English dub, quicker pace, fewer episodes

Seriously, just that. Just a basic summary of what each product contains and what its origins are, without necessarily saying one thing's better than the other. Unfortunately there's nothing even approximating such an attempt anywhere from Funimation.

[Gaffer Tape]

Personally, I can't see them owning up to anything about the season sets being lower quality than the Dragon Boxes. I think the existance of the Dragon Boxes in this country is FUNimation's attempt to apologize, but that's as far as they're going to go. Their entire ad campaign for the season sets was, "This is the awesome, high-tech, remastered, digital, restored, frame-by-frame, cinematic, widescreen, color-corrected version." They're never going to admit that it was a half-assed budget release. And that means they can't truly tout that the Dragon Box has the superior picture quality and restoration because that would be admitting that they were lying about the season sets. They went the high tech route with the season sets marketing, and they're going for the humorous, meme-filled route with the Dragon Boxes, and they'll be damned if they admit anything different.

[LilKokuLink]

Recently I just got back into playing RuneScape (an online mmorpg) and I saw someone with a DragonBall related username. Naturally we became friends and started talking about the show, this guy is 19, prefers the Japanese version and he's very well educated. He has every DragonBall Z season remastered sets and he's a really great fan.

However, when I asked him if he was excited about the dub of Kai, this was his answer:

"What's DragonBall Kai? Is it a new series?"

I could not believe it, so I explained everything to him and he really had no idea what was going on. He lives in the US and the fact that he didn't know Kai really took its toll on me because he was a huge fan (obviously to an extent).

Though this is one example, there are still many out there that do not know about Kai itself. However this may change when (Z) Kai starts to air, there are commercials out there already but which typical and mature DragonBall fan is out there watching commercials on Nicktoons? :/