Filler Guide (General + Inconsistencies)

[VegettoEX]

I've brought on board some good ol' alt.fan.dragonball friends to help out with the up-coming "Filler Guide" that's in the works! You probably all recognize Rachel Oliver (TripleRach) from the chat / forums, but there's also Clay Reynolds, who's probably going to do the majority of writing for the general filler stuff. Think of them as honorary staff members . They've been helping out for a long time, and it's nice to have people as knowledgeable as them doing some writing for us.

The main page of the "Filler Guide" is just kinda there, doing nothing... but the "Inconsistencies / Plotholes" page is pretty much up and running! Complete with pictures, yeah! I'm gonna go through and possibly pad out some of Rachel's writing, but I dunno... I added to the movie 13 one, but the others are pretty decent...

Actually, Rach... I did change one thing. I got rid of the Goku spaceship thing. Turns out that's only in the dub; I've made a new entry over in the "Rumors Guide" with that information.

So going with this idea of "inconsistencies" and what you see there... does anyone else have any suggestions? I'd like to keep it strictly DB/DBZ, since we're going for inconsistencies between the manga the anime. You'll see what I mean by reading over the page.

So... many... new... sections...

[Dai]

Well then... There's Gohan destroying too many Cell Juniors. There's the fact only eight months pass since Oolong wishes for a pair of panties, yet Goku still sets out to find the Dragon Balls... which aren't stoned. There's also another movie plothole: When Jackie Chun blows up the moon, Goku reverts back to normal from an Oozaru. Same with Piccolo and Gohan in DBZ. In Movie 3, Taurus creates an artificial moon, blows it up, yet Gohan remains an Oozaru.

Then there's Vegeta having no tail in the flashback with Gulldo. Then there's the fact Nameks do not eat food, but only drink water, yet Piccolo/Kami in a flashback is seen eating fish. Then there's Goku having two Dragon Balls at his home at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z, yet a glimpse of the Dragon Radar reveals them all scattered.. There's also the filler episode where Chi Chi wishes to have a car and forces Goku to take a driving test. In several instances before, Chi Chi is seen driving a car. There's Gohan's nightmare of Perfect Cell, even though he had never seen him. There's Goku having a dream about N17 and N18, yet never having seen them. There's the apples on Kaio's planet leaving pits in the ground... This is impossible; the apples would have to be adjusted to the gravity there.

That's all for now. There're more, but I'm getting tired.

[PsyLiam]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but Goku is 12 (and thinks he's 14) and Bulma 16 at the start of the series, right? They hunt for the dragonballs, get a wish, wander off for a while, start searching again, and then they are still 12 and 16.

If the 8 months thing above is true, then this isn't necessarily a plot hole (although I don't know exactly when they say their ages again), but something's wrong.

[VegettoEX]

In several instances before, Chi Chi is seen driving a car.

Yes, but every time... isn't she with her father? I always assumed it was his car she was driving; she seems like the type that would push her own father out of the driver's seat ^^.

I'm not sure where to add things like the eight Cell Jrs.; technically, it's a plothole... but it's not really "filler," per say. Gohan fights Cell Jrs. in the manga; it's just a "mistake" in the anime that he kills eight. Things like that might be better suited in the general filler guide, as Clay and the rest of us get around to it.

Tullece and the false moon... yeah... Julian and I have ranted about that, too. Again, though, not sure if it quite fits... although it kinds does...

*rips hair out*

[Dai]

In several instances before, Chi Chi is seen driving a car.

Yes, but every time... isn't she with her father? I always assumed it was his car she was driving; she seems like the type that would push her own father out of the driver's seat ^^.

That doesn't at all take away from the plothole-- The fact is, she knew how to drive, which would make Goku getting a driver's license completely useless. Hell, if her father would lend her the car that often, she wouldn't even had to whine about wanting a car!

[TripleRach]

Actually, Rach... I did change one thing. I got rid of the Goku spaceship thing. Turns out that's only in the dub; I've made a new entry over in the "Rumors Guide" with that information.

Wha.... Hmm. Well, I haven't actually seen the anime version of that, dubbed or Japanese (which meant lots of research to look up the episode number for that one). But in the manga, when Gokuu is leaving the hospital, he says, "Ora yo~ku kangaete mitara, Saiyajin no uchuusen ga mada futatsu nokotte ru koto ni ki ga tsuita n da! Ora no aniki ga notte kita yatsu to... Ora jishin ga gaki no koro ni notte kita yatsu!" That's something like, "Once I tried putting a LOT of thought into it, I realized there's still two Saiyan spaceships left! The one my older brother rode in, and... The one I myself rode in as a kid!"

Seems like he did say the same in the anime, according to Daimao. (That was one of the main places I used to look up the episode number.)

It's cool that you added onto the Movie 13 part a lot, because I haven't actually seen that movie yet... ^^;;

[VegettoEX]

Hmm... I didn't read the part where he was doing the hospital stuff... I just focused on when they were all leaving the battlefield. I'm also going off the Viz translation (neither Julian nor myself has that on us, at the moment, in Japanese).

I'll check that part in the Viz version when I get back, later tonight. Probably says the same thing... hrrmm...

Actually, I'm not happy with how I wrote the movie 13 thing. Seems really badly written . I'll have to go over it, again, later.

[PsyLiam]

Okay, this is from the dub, but I believe the original makes the same mistake.

At some point during the Freeza saga, there's a flashback involving Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz. In it, Vegeta reveals that he is aware that is was Freeza who destroyed Planet Vegeta, and not a meteor swarm. He tells this to Nappa and Raditz.

So why does Raditz tell Goku the "Meteorite" version of the story? I can't see how he might think that Goku is more likely to follow him than if he told the truth.

And if Vegeta does know, then his reaction when Dodoria tells him shows some hidden acting skills.

(Of course, if this isn't in the original, then it can be slotted in as a dub mistake. Wee!)

[PsyLiam]

Three more things:

The dub makes it clear that Kame Sen'nin is only telling a legend when talking about the creation of the Dragonballs. It is rumour, not was definitely happened. Therefore it's not really a mistake. (I'm not sure if this aspect is in the original, or whether it's FUNi actually being *shock* quite clever by slightly tweaking dialogue in order to eliminate an error).

And this is picky, but surely the whole introduction to DBZ is an error? After all, it does show Goku with his Nyoibo, which he shouldn't have in DBZ?

Finally (and most pick-ely), Kuririn is enormously tall during the first episode of DBZ. Far taller than he is later on. And taller than he is in the manga. It annoys me greatly.

[Jerseymilk]

About Dai's comments concerning Namekians not eating food and then seeing Piccolo/Kami eating fish, no, Nameks don't need to eat food, but you could explain that one away by the idea that that doesn't mean they can't eat food if they want to. They just don't require it to live. Also, your point about Goku and Gohan dreaming about #17, #18, and Perfect Cell before they'd seen them. I always figured that their dreams were precognitive in nature. When it comes to battle, Goku and also Gohan too really, are extraodinarily gifted, so it wouldn't be at all suprising if they had intuitive abilities.

[Jerseymilk]

I've just checked out the Plotholes Section and it looks really nice VegettoEX! One thing though about the first plothole concerning Roshi's story about the creation of the dragonballs. In the original Japanese version of the anime, he actually does say "This is only a legend, but...". So he's not saying it's the absolute truth, just what he's heard. Sorry, I know I just did two post in a row, but I justified it by the fact that my posts are addressed to two different people.

[PsyLiam]

So FUNi weren't being clever. Tsk. Well, at least they were doing the always shocking thing of "translating" dialogue. Crazy FUNi and their crazy ways.

[VegettoEX]

Is Nyoi-Bo ever seen, again, actually connecting Karin's Tower to Kami's Palace? I mean, by this point, they can all just fly up there...

And yeah, Goku says something about being able to see it all in his dreams, even though he wasn't there to see it all... I guess he's just up to that point, mentally, when it comes to battles. Probably some kind of unconscious ki-sensing-type thing.

[Jerseymilk]

Yes I remember he says something like that when he comes out of the healing chamber during the Freeza saga does he not? He constantly makes observations based on everyone's fluctuating "ki"s when he is the chamber as well, though he can't really figure out what's going on.

[PsyLiam]

And it was extrememly annoying. I was ready to punch him.

[Jerseymilk]

Now, now you have to look at it from Goku's point of view. He could only sense the fluctuations in everyone's Ki, and the way things were happening such as Piccolo gaining a huge leap in power from fusing with Nail, to Dende continously healing anyone on the brink of death, no wonder Goku was confused as to what was happening!

[Dai]

Jerseymilk: It still doesn't make sense. Why would a Namek go through the trouble of catching a fish if there's a huge lake of water right at his feet? You can't tell me it's just because he felt like it. I recon eating something would kinda mess up the Namekian body... It wouldn't fill them, nor would it be tasty to them.

The 'vision' could as well be true, but I still seriously doubt it. Gohan even states he has no idea how Cell is supposed to look, and having a vision about him appearing in the ROSAT (Along with Chi Chi) is just weird, and could in no way be precognitive... Unless his head was playing tricks on him. That, and Perfect Cell had no 'Ki' signature of his own... Just those marks of all the Z senshi. They get confused as hell by it, and the only way they figure out is Cell, is because it's a high level, and it could be no one else... So in the ROSAT, without any idea what's going on, neither Goku nor Gohan could have been able to discern Cell's Ki signature, and therefore not really 'make' images of their own, either...

Same with N17 and N18... They don't even have Ki.

Well, that's enough of me arguing with each of your theories, just to inflate my ego to even bigger proportions!

[PsyLiam]

Perhaps (and this is reaching) Piccolo and Kami didn't know that they only needed water to survive? After all, they didn't even know that they were aliens.

Now, now you have to look at it from Goku's point of view. He could only sense the fluctuations in everyone's Ki, and the way things were happening such as Piccolo gaining a huge leap in power from fusing with Nail, to Dende continously healing anyone on the brink of death, no wonder Goku was confused as to what was happening!

True. But as it played out, it was the most annoying filler scenes I've ever watched. And yeah, I know some of them were in the manga, but they were still filling out the fighting. Cutting from the tension of Freesa vs whoever to Goku sitting there thinking "What's going on? I'm confused? Is that Piccolo? I'm hungry. I wonder if I can touch my tongue with my nose?"

[TripleRach]

I've thought of another manga/anime inconsistency: Tenshinhan using Mafuuba. They have him use it on Drum in the anime, to extend the fight and prolong Gokuu's arrival. Problem is, people who use Mafuuba are supposed to, uh, die...

Also, what's up with Gokuu's spaceship? Did you guys ever look that up?

[VegettoEX]

Apparently the manga got it both correct AND incorrect. In one scene, Goku acknowledges only Nappa's and Raditz's ships as the ones remaining. In another scene, he says HIS is around, too. One of the scenes in question, in the dub, MIS-translated it saying that Goku's ship was around, so now BOTH scenes say it (actually making it worse).

I think.