"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[Wilderness]

Also, SSB Goku vs SS4 Goku? Can't wait for the flame wars

Which flame wars? It's pretty much a consensus here that SSJ4 can obliterate Blue (with Kaioken or not)

Are you sure? From what I've seen around the forums, people think that SSJB > SSJ4.

I mean, I guess there's no official media or confirmation of this afaik, especially considering they're from different 'canon' sets. I always felt like SSJ4 was stronger, personally, but that's just my opinion.

[Dragon Wukong]

I know Extreme Butoden treats SSG as stronger than SS4, but different games can have different canons anyways.

Personally I like the idea that SS4 and SSB are equal. (I also like the idea that GGA and SSG are equal for backstory possibilities.) Since that provides a lot more "what-if" GT X Super potential, which seems to be what Heroes is going for. I'm hoping SSB is the last "Super Saiyan" transformation anyhow, since Ultra Instinct seems to be more of a thing any race can potentially do. Considering GT and SS4 weren't made by Toriyama, how strong SS4 is is ultimately up to the people handling these what-if situations, which is something I'm completely fine with, so long as the consistency is Baby < SS4 < Omega Shenron (which, if SS4 is as strong as SSB in this context, might put OS around Beerus level, or somewhere between manga Fused Zamasu and anime Fused Zamasu.)

The REAL question is when does SS4 Goku fuse with SSB Goku? If alternate timeline Zamasus can do it, so can alternate timeline transformed Gokus, dangit. I really wanna see what the actual result would be.

[MisteryOne]

I definetly see SS4 to be at best stronger than SSG but way weaker than SSB, and even that is probably too much considering how SS3 Vegetto is supposed to be nothing compared to SSG.

But this is a game after all, and as it has already been said each one does whatever it wants with the power of SS4 (Xenoverse implies than SS4> SSG for example). That being said, we saw Masked Saiyan being on par with f*cking SS4 Gogeta in base, and he was supposed to be comparable to Super Miira. Xeno Goku in his SS4 form is able to fight Final Form Miira, who is even stronger than that, so... The Xeno group sees to be extremely strong even in base. SS4 Xeno Goku would probably kill SSB normal Goku with a finger.

That's what should happen if they were consistent, but of course I'm not expecting that, lol. But yeah, if SSB normal Goku is able to fight with the Xeno SS4 one...it would imply SSB is a ridiculous, almost borderline boost

[Grimlock]

(Xenoverse implies than SS4> SSG for example).

Huh? Where does XV imply that? The only thing Xenoverse presents when it comes to "Super Saiyan 4 vs Super Saiyan God" is the dialogue with Gotenks as your mentor (if your character is a Saiyan). He says Super Saiyan God is stronger than Super Saiyan 4.

That being said, we saw Masked Saiyan being on par with f*cking SS4 Gogeta in base

All we saw was Time Breaker Bardock blocking a punch from him, that doesn't mean he's on par with anything. To top things off, that (and the other things you mentioned) happened in a trailer, where characters will be as strong as marketing needs them to be. So using them to state anything is wrong in every way.

[MisteryOne]

(Xenoverse implies than SS4> SSG for example).

Huh? Where does XV imply that? The only thing Xenoverse presents when it comes to "Super Saiyan 4 vs Super Saiyan God" is the dialogue with Gotenks as your mentor (if your character is a Saiyan). He says Super Saiyan God is stronger than Super Saiyan 4.

That being said, we saw Masked Saiyan being on par with f*cking SS4 Gogeta in base

All we saw was Time Breaker Bardock blocking a punch from him, that doesn't mean he's on par with anything. To top things off, that (and the other things you mentioned) happened in a Heroes trailer, where characters will be as strong as marketing need them to be. So using them to state anything is wrong in every way.

In Xenoverse 2, if you face Beerus with the SS4s, both Goku and Vegeta are confident on being able to fight with him. Beerus even asks Goku what's that form since it's different to his God one, and he replies that it's the ultimate SS form. Vegeta also says that a battle between Beerus and him using SS4 would be interesting, implying again that SS4s are at leasts at the level of SSG.

I never stated anything not I said that Heroes actually shows them at that level, specially when you have Sorbet facing a Super Saiyan in one trailer and Saibaman cards being stronger than base saiyans. I just said that it they were being consistent with what we saw they should consider that, that's all. I know the story of the games themselves is not even the same of the trailers. I don't even see the point of your comment.

Are you really trying to say that Masked Saiyan is weaker than SS4 Gogeta? He didn't just tank a hit from him without any visible damaged, a gendikama formed by the power of Piccolo, Trunks, Beat and Gogeta himself just broke his mask, and to that he just said "This won't end soon". At the very least, he's at Gogeta's level.

[Draconic]

Not trying to shit on anyone's cornflakes here, but both versions of Goku in that trailer aren't part of anything we've seen in either Super or GT. SSJ4 Goku is clearly the Xeno Goku unique to the games and SSB Goku isn't the usual Goku we see in either the movies or Super, as seen by his new outfit, so he too is unique to Heroes. Whatever your opinion on which form is stronger, these versions of characters can literally be as strong as the "story" demands without interfering with what the two shows put out. It's basically useless to draw any conclusions from this.

[ankokudaishogun]

as seen by his new outfit,

Uh, at first I though they were back to their RoF outfits.
Which... is probably true. They look like an improved\modified of their RoF outfits:
Vegeta's is identical except for the Capsule Corp logo, Goku's has the logo and a shirt under the gi.

edit: also: what if Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is actually the wrong way to go Beyond God? Like, Old Kaiohshin always said it was the incorrect way to powering-up

[Xeogran]

considering how SS3 Vegetto is supposed to be nothing compared to SSG.

I disagree with this and I believe SSG has been nerfed these days a lot. Kefla was a fusion of two beginner fighters, had no God Ki at all and look how far she had reached, so much she required Ultra Instinct to be dealt with.

SSG doesn't seem to be such a big deal as they made it to be years ago.

[ankokudaishogun]

I disagree with this and I believe SSG has been nerfed these days a lot. Kefla was a fusion of two beginner fighters, had no God Ki at all and look how far she had reached, so much she required Ultra Instinct to be dealt with.
.

You forget Kale's berserker form was already as powerful as Blue, somehow.
Add Caulifla's l33t skillz and multiply for the fusion power-up and you get quite a mighty warrior

[Dragon Wukong]

considering how SS3 Vegetto is supposed to be nothing compared to SSG.

I disagree with this and I believe SSG has been nerfed these days a lot. Kefla was a fusion of two beginner fighters, had no God Ki at all and look how far she had reached, so much she required Ultra Instinct to be dealt with.

SSG doesn't seem to be such a big deal as they made it to be years ago.

Some things to note.
1. Most of Kefla's strength came from Kale, who had that Broly-esque form that's also noted for being not the norm, and tanked an SSB Kamehameha in addition to going toe-to-toe with SSG Goku. I mean, by the end of the fight between Kefla and Goku they were saying her power was around UI Goku's level, who mind you, is around the level of a GoD at this point while in that form. (Statements taken from Whis and Piccolo back this up) Yet it's very explicit that fusion wouldn't contend with Beerus in BoG, at least given the levels of the fighters there. Kale isn't a normal Saiyan, so it's less "oh two Saiyans that can go Super Saiyan fused and can now fight SSG" and more "one Saiyan that can go SS2 just fused with someone with an amount of power Jiren felt necessary to intervene on during her rampage, with a form separate from any of the forms we generally know from Saiyans"
2. Even if the above doesn't have god ki, several characters without god ki reach those levels of power, such as Golden Frieza or Hit. But this doesn't mean god ki isn't a massive powerup, as designated with Toppo's treatment in the anime.
3. The manga still treats SSG and SSB as incredibly powerful forms, so even if we assume Vegito to be around the level of Kefla at SS3 in the anime, the statement still seems accurate in at least one adaptation. I mean hey, 17 only fights Goku evenly in SS3 in the manga. I honestly believe at this point that Goku's gonna beat Kefla as either SSG or SSB in the manga, or possibly even lose to an equivalent fusion.

[S3 Hendrix]

But this is a game after all, and as it has already been said each one does whatever it wants with the power of SS4 (Xenoverse implies than SS4> SSG for example). That being said, we saw Masked Saiyan being on par with f*cking SS4 Gogeta in base, and he was supposed to be comparable to Super Miira. Xeno Goku in his SS4 form is able to fight Final Form Miira, who is even stronger than that, so... The Xeno group sees to be extremely strong even in base. SS4 Xeno Goku would probably kill SSB normal Goku with a finger.

SSJ4 Goku xeno never fights final Form Mira have no idea where you got that from cause in the game and manga they team up to fight broli dark

[mahakaishin1991]

chances of young mekichabura being one of the super duper cards?

[Steven Bloodriver]

Everyone! They just released the new set of cards!
[spoiler]http://www.carddass.com/dbh/sdbh/cardli ... ory=418008[/spoiler]

[Grimlock]

And the only thing interesting in there is Bardock. They finally gave him Super Saiyan 2 with a proper design card. The last (and only) time this occured was in JM8.

The set of cards became boring a long time ago, so this came off as a surprise.

[Supersaiyanbulla]

The ssb vegeta card is the best one.

[mahakaishin1991]

Everyone! They just released the new set of cards!
[spoiler]http://www.carddass.com/dbh/sdbh/cardli ... ory=418008[/spoiler]

No sign of Xeno King vegeta, so I assume this isnt revealing the epic cards?

[Steven Bloodriver]

Everyone! They just released the new set of cards!
[spoiler]http://www.carddass.com/dbh/sdbh/cardli ... ory=418008[/spoiler]

No sign of Xeno King vegeta, so I assume this isnt revealing the epic cards?

They might be saving the best cards for later like you assumed, similar to what they did within the last set.

[HECTOR4]

(Xenoverse implies than SS4> SSG for example).

Are you really trying to say that Masked Saiyan is weaker than SS4 Gogeta? He didn't just tank a hit from him without any visible damaged, a gendikama formed by the power of Piccolo, Trunks, Beat and Gogeta himself just broke his mask, and to that he just said "This won't end soon". At the very least, he's at Gogeta's level.

The Genkidama doesn't work like this, it doesn't use the energy of the user who performs it, just a bit of the energy of the planet where that user is and the total energy of the beings that voluntarily want to offer theirs. So having only the energy of beings as "weak" as Piccolo, Trunks and Beat I don't think it's something too remarkable. That Genkidama was much weaker than the one used to defeat Boo.

And as already said in previous messages, that was just an animated trailer. In the traditional animation trailer the avatar Kaiôshin hero (Zen) stands up to Bardock and even he breaks his mask (he does much more than Gogeta SS4). In the SDBH manga, Time Patrol Trunks Super Saiyan also stands up Bardock and breaks his mask (he also does more than Gogeta SS4). In DBO, a few Time Patrollers, who can not even transform into Super Saiyan, stand up to Bardock and also break his mask.

Masked Bardock should be close or equal in power to of a Super Saiyan (one as strong as Trunks after the Cell saga).

[Majin Demigra]

Are you really trying to say that Masked Saiyan is weaker than SS4 Gogeta? He didn't just tank a hit from him without any visible damaged, a gendikama formed by the power of Piccolo, Trunks, Beat and Gogeta himself just broke his mask, and to that he just said "This won't end soon". At the very least, he's at Gogeta's level.

The Genkidama doesn't work like this, it doesn't use the energy of the user who performs it, just a bit of the energy of the planet where that user is and the total energy of the beings that voluntarily want to offer theirs. So having only the energy of beings as "weak" as Piccolo, Trunks and Beat I don't think it's something too remarkable. That Genkidama was much weaker than the one used to defeat Boo.

And as already said in previous messages, that was just an animated trailer. In the traditional animation trailer the avatar Kaiôshin hero (Zen) stands up to Bardock and even he breaks his mask (he does much more than Gogeta SS4). In the SDBH manga, Time Patrol Trunks Super Saiyan also stands up Bardock and breaks his mask (he also does more than Gogeta SS4). In DBO, a few Time Patrollers, who can not even transform into Super Saiyan, stand up to Bardock and also break his mask.

Masked Bardock should be close or equal in power to of a Super Saiyan (one as strong as Trunks after the Cell saga).

If Ssj4 Gogeta was more than enough for Bardock why would they use Spirit Bomb in the first place?

[HECTOR4]

If Ssj4 Gogeta was more than enough for Bardock why would they use Spirit Bomb in the first place?

The Genkidama in those conditions is an attack VERY, VERY, VERY weak. A simple basic ki attack of Gogeta SS4 should be stronger than a Genkidama made with the energy of Trunks and Piccolo. Maybe they thought that for someone as weak as Bardock something like that weak Genkidama would be enough. XDDD The other alternative is that the creatives of Dimps have no idea about Dragon Ball and only work with the fan service in mind to do the marketing campaign, as someone has said up there, haha.