"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[ankokudaishogun]

Part of me hopes that by the end of everything the SS4 Time Patrol Goku ends up as strong as SSGSS Super Goku. SSGSS being stronger makes sense, obviously. I just like the idea of alternate timeline counterparts reaching the same level of strength via different means. I'm a little sad the fight didn't end in a tie.

Unless Goku:Xeno comes with some trick(ie: learning how to use God Ki in SS4 form), it's unlikely.

Blue is already MANY times stronger than God(Jiren stopped God with a finger, but had to actually parry with Blue), on top of God being many times stronger than SS3.
Meanwhile, SS4 is "just" many times stronger than SS3.

In theory, SS4 should be around the same level of God, not Blue.

Goku:Xeno being able to fight basically on the same level as Goku Blue can only mean Goku:Xeno is MUCH more skilled than Goku Blue and\or Goku:Xeno's base-level is MUCH higher than Goku Blue's.
As he's supposed to be an older Goku, taken from the point in time where his abilities were at peak, and that by GT time-frame Base(or was it Super Saiyan? Doesn't really matter) Goku was supposed to be already as strong as his Majin Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 state, both are quite possible.

It's also worth to note we don't know if Goku Blue was going full power during the fight, using either Kaiohken or Complete Blue.

Tl;dr: SS4 Goku:Xeno is already incredibly powerful

So, after listening it in different videos to make sure it wasn't a sound from something else, Fu does call the mysterious guy a "Saiyan". "Omatase, Saiyajin-ka", or something like that.

Yep, he's saying that.

[HeroR]

Can someone translate these dialogues? That last one has a long post-battle dialogue and it does end with a cliffhanger!

The trio attack! One of the best ones I have ever seen! Why such badass move didn't happen in Universe Survival saga? Or better yet, why badass stuff don't appear in Dragon Ball Super?

Fu looks so unenthused.

And it's just a callback to the Father-Son Kamehameha. What's so special about it. If we count this, we got a five-way beam attack in 121 with Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Freeza, and 17.

[Dragotaker]

Wonder if Xeno Goku could realistically get stronger or at least be equal to God Blue witouth having to resort to something impossible like having a completely new form.

[Dragon Wukong]

Wonder if Xeno Goku could realistically get stronger or at least be equal to God Blue witouth having to resort to something impossible like having a completely new form.

Honestly it doesn't sound like the gap between SS4 and SSGSS is that big. Though part of the issue is how inconsistent the strength of God forms are portrayed when calculating that gap. Still, a gap of 25% was needed for someone like Vegeta to one-shot Cui, so there's probably closer to a 5-10% difference between SS4 and SSGSS in this continuity.

I'd also like to know if Goku used Kaioken against his Xeno counterpart to win.

[ekrolo2]

On the subject of Xeno Goku's power, we can infer several things, assuming he's supposed to be GT Goku plucked from a certain point in time, maybe a continuity where he doesn't leave with Shenron after Omega dies? Lets assume that's how he works.

Kid Boo is mentioned several times as being the strongest version of Boo in the Z anime which GT is a sequel too and Goku can stalemate him in SS3. This already means SS3 Goku is above Boohan, Ultimate Gohan, Gotenks,... Then in GT, Base Goku's power is comparable to his SS3 self from when he fought Kid Boo, making Base GT Goku at least 4000-5000 times stronger than his Boo arc Base Self.

From the Baby fight, we can figure out SS4s multiplier to end up at around x50,000 Base. Meaning GT Goku and Xeno Goku by extension are, at least, 250 million times stronger than Base Goku from the Boo arc. If Blue Goku is only somewhat superior to this, we can safely gauge him at anywhere from being 300-350 million times stronger than Goku's Boo arc Base self.

This also means Blue is probably a much higher multiplier than 4 since Blue Goku's Base got retconned to "normal" levels of strength for the Super anime, assuming Heroes is using that guy as a basis.

[Dragotaker]

Wonder if Xeno Goku could realistically get stronger or at least be equal to God Blue witouth having to resort to something impossible like having a completely new form.

Honestly it doesn't sound like the gap between SS4 and SSGSS is that big. Though part of the issue is how inconsistent the strength of God forms are portrayed when calculating that gap. Still, a gap of 25% was needed for someone like Vegeta to one-shot Cui, so there's probably closer to a 5-10% difference between SS4 and SSGSS in this continuity.

I'd also like to know if Goku used Kaioken against his Xeno counterpart to win.

Yeah i'm aware of that but still Xeno Goku is like the main canon Goku of the Heroes franchise at least for now, that means he can't just stay beneath his Super counterpart which also continues to get even stronger in the anime, maybe giving him a new form that is just a recolor like the God forms could work sounds like something Toriyama would aprove, not a fan of it myself but that's the only thing i can think of without getting to some SS5 crazy fanfiction thing.

[BlueBasilisk]

What if Xeno Goku just learns Blue from his counterpart?

[ekrolo2]

What if Xeno Goku just learns Blue from his counterpart?

If Xeno Goku isn't that much weaker than his counterpart with just SS4, giving him God alone should make him considerably more powerful than his duplicate. If he had Blue, he could challenge an Omen version of his duplicate. Xeno Goku, if you gave him all the new stuff, would probably be the strongest version of the character.

[S3 Hendrix]

Wonder if Xeno Goku could realistically get stronger or at least be equal to God Blue witouth having to resort to something impossible like having a completely new form.

Honestly it doesn't sound like the gap between SS4 and SSGSS is that big. Though part of the issue is how inconsistent the strength of God forms are portrayed when calculating that gap. Still, a gap of 25% was needed for someone like Vegeta to one-shot Cui, so there's probably closer to a 5-10% difference between SS4 and SSGSS in this continuity.

I'd also like to know if Goku used Kaioken against his Xeno counterpart to win.

He just uses blue vs Goku Xeno, no kaioken.

[AnimeNation101]

So, after listening it in different videos to make sure it wasn't a sound from something else, Fu does call the mysterious guy a "Saiyan". "Omatase, Saiyajin-ka", or something like that.

He looks like he’s in a straightjacket. Anyway I’m leaning towards either Yamoshi or a creation made by Fu from Saipan cells from the multiple important Saipan like Broly, Gohan, Vegeta, Goku, Bardock, etc

[miguelnuva1]

What if Xeno Goku just learns Blue from his counterpart?

If Xeno Goku isn't that much weaker than his counterpart with just SS4, giving him God alone should make him considerably more powerful than his duplicate. If he had Blue, he could challenge an Omen version of his duplicate. Xeno Goku, if you gave him all the new stuff, would probably be the strongest version of the character.

Xeno Goku already has god powers, he just can't go blue.

[Grimlock]

If you want to know if a character transforms/uses a power-up, try to find a video where the player drags the fight at least to Round 3. Sometimes, if the player takes too long to defeat the opponent, they will transform. Since Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku is a character provided by the mission (the player only goes with six characters, the seventh is Goku, you don't control him through a physical card), he might transform, but it has to reach Round 3 at least.

Xeno Goku already has god powers, he just can't go blue.

Care to provide a source?

[Steven Bloodriver]

If you want to know if a character transforms/uses a power-up, try to find a video where the player drags the fight at least to Round 3. Sometimes, if the player takes too long to defeat the opponent, they will transform. Since Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku is a character provided by the mission (the player only goes with six characters, the seventh is Goku, you don't control him through a physical card), he might transform, but it has to reach Round 3 at least.

Xeno Goku already has god powers, he just can't go blue.

Care to provide a source?

[spoiler][/spoiler][spoiler]Also, going by what I have heard across the Dragon Ball Wiki and YouTube, apparently Xeno Goku did not know about the existence of the Super Saiyan Blue form until meeting his alternate counterpart.[/spoiler]

[Grimlock]

It has been commented to death by now that one should not put all Heroes games in the same bag. What is stated in Dragon Ball Heroes: Ultimate Mission X does not mean it is a valid information for all Heroes games and its manga.

In that portable game, Xeno Goku does know about Super Saiyan God and such, but the according to the manga, he does not. Therefore, each incarnation of Heroes must be seen as its own continuity. What one may do is to think of the manga as a supplemental material to the arcade version (I don't remember if there was a huge information there that contradicts something in the arcade version), but besides that, nothing else can be put in the same place.

Since this is a thread for the arcade version, no, Xeno Goku doesn't have Super Saiyan God until otherwise stated (which it won't, Xeno Goku already saw Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and he didn't make any comment implying he has it or that at least he knows it).

[Dragotaker]

It has been commented to death by now that one should not put all Heroes games in the same bag. What is stated in Dragon Ball Heroes: Ultimate Mission X does not mean it is a valid information for all Heroes games and its manga.

In that portable game, Xeno Goku does know about Super Saiyan God and such, but the according to the manga, he does not. Therefore, each incarnation of Heroes must be seen as its own continuity. What one may do is to think of the manga as a supplemental material to the arcade version (I don't remember if there was a huge information there that contradicts something in the arcade version), but besides that, nothing else can be put in the same place.

Since this is a thread for the arcade version, no, Xeno Goku doesn't have Super Saiyan God until otherwise stated (which it won't, Xeno Goku already saw Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and he didn't make any comment implying he has it or that at least he knows it).

The Wiki says Xeno Goku went thru BoG events but then went straight to GT, Resurrection of F never happened in that timeline or so it says, it makes sense he doesn't know SSGSS then because he never went that far in training the God form beyond what he already did and instead focused in achieving power in another way, but also maybe i'm misunderstanding and the way you said he spoke about it was more like he has no idea what a Super Saiyan God is, in that case you are right.

[miguelnuva1]

To my knoweldge Xeno Goku knows about red god but not blue god.

[Grimlock]

The Wiki says Xeno Goku went thru BoG events but then went straight to GT, Resurrection of F never happened in that timeline or so it says,

I'm sorry but I won't bother reading your full post. Neither from anyone who uses Wiki as main source, I said once and I'll say again: it's 2018. You can totally find a reliable source to back up your statements or ask a reliable person to provide you with something.

I didn't even have to read your full post, your first sentence already shows a made-up information, with no evidence backing it up. Not to mention this is a huge assumption to make, and one that does not make much sense, why would Movie 14 happen but not Movie 15?

[Steven Bloodriver]

The Wiki says Xeno Goku went thru BoG events but then went straight to GT, Resurrection of F never happened in that timeline or so it says,

I'm sorry but I won't bother reading your full post. Neither from anyone who uses Wiki as main source, I said once and I'll say again: it's 2018. You can totally find a reliable source to back up your statements or ask a reliable person to provide you with something.

I didn't even have to read your full post, your first sentence already shows a made-up information, with no evidence backing it up. Not to mention this is a huge assumption to make, and one that does not make much sense, why would Movie 14 happen but not Movie 15?

Sorbet, Tagoma, and the rest of the remnants of the infamous Planet Trade Organization might have been wiped out by a member of the Z Fighters like Vegeta, one of the many factions of the Machine Mutants like the Para Para Brothers, or an uprising led by one or many more planets they conquered before they could have had any chance to revive Mecha Frieza. I also believe Super Saiyan 4 Gohan or someone else who looks just like him, perhaps another natural or an artificial user of Super Saiyan 4, had been captured and even possibly experimented on by the very brilliant, yet also equally mad Fu or perhaps another familiar denizen of the Dark Demon Realm.

[Dragotaker]

The Wiki says Xeno Goku went thru BoG events but then went straight to GT, Resurrection of F never happened in that timeline or so it says,

I'm sorry but I won't bother reading your full post. Neither from anyone who uses Wiki as main source, I said once and I'll say again: it's 2018. You can totally find a reliable source to back up your statements or ask a reliable person to provide you with something.

I didn't even have to read your full post, your first sentence already shows a made-up information, with no evidence backing it up. Not to mention this is a huge assumption to make, and one that does not make much sense, why would Movie 14 happen but not Movie 15?

How the hell would i know??? the only thing you can do to follow the arcade game is in that same game cutscenes that even though there is a dude who uploads everything or almost everything on Youtube, everything is in Japanese characters and i can't read those at all, but since you seem really confident about what you say i guess you have sources of your own that show me Xeno Goku indeed doesn't know or have anything at all related to Super Saiyan God.

[Grimlock]

but since you seem really confident about what you say i guess you have sources of your own that show me Xeno Goku indeed doesn't know or have anything at all related to Super Saiyan God.

Yes, I do.