The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Piccolo Daimao]

Agreed. Rage boosts are presumably gone, since he apparently lost that ability either when he slacked off in his training or on account of growing up (developing in emotional stability and, perhaps, ki control), and besides, his Ultimate state brought out his dormant power beyond his limits. However, I suppose that doesn't rule out the possibility of Gohan somehow managing to rage boost if he got really angry, just that it would be more difficult than when he was a child. After all, when Gohan gets impatient during the old Kaioshin's ritual, he unintentionally powers up.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…
Note (via Savage): I think it's worth mentioning here that Goku didn't cite what had very recently happened at the Budokai (SSJ2), but instead talks about Gohan's strength when he faced Cell. So, Gohan's full power was the issue here, not Gohan's access to his strongest transformation.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out my true ability…”

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P4.3
Context: after Gohan keeps mad and unintentionally releases his power
Gohan: “Wh-what the…!? Is-is this seething power…me…!?”

[In Brightest Day]

Future Trunks after the Cell-Games vs. Ultimate Gohan at equal power levels.

Trunks cannot transform into Super Saiyan, of course.

[Mystic Gohan]

Gohan easily. Hes been trained by piccolo and goku. Hes a god.

[Rocketman]

They're both incredibly stupid and terrible fighters. Gohan's only strategy is CHAERG HEADFIRST and Trunks isn't any better.

Well, Trunks did manage to fake MechaFreeza out with the Burning Attack, so I'll give it to Trunks for being the only one to ever show any intelligence in battle.

[Silkman3003]

Android 17 and 18 in Goku and Vegeta's situation(Movie 6) vs Metal Coolers.

Basically, if the 1st or 2nd Metal Cooler gets killed, Cooler will bring out the rest of the Cooler gang(the same amount that showed up to fight a tired Goku and Vegeta)

Scenario 2:
If 17+18 get stomped, then add in Android 16 as well.

Can Android 17 and 18 kill the large amount of Metal Coolers? Or will the sheer number of Coolers overwhelm the Androids?(wasn't it 1,000 Coolers? I can't remember the specific amount. Just that it was a lot)

[Kaboom]

The Metal Coolas got more powerful each time they were defeated. If that held true for the final massive wave of them too, then I'd guess each one of those copies is already as strong or maybe even stronger than Android 17 or 18. Heck, the one that Goku and Vegeta struggled and took down with monumental combined effort could very well already be that strong.

So yeah, the Metal Coolas are in the same tier as 17 and 18, who get swarmed and overpowered quickly. 16 is much more effective against one or just a few Metal Coolas at a time, but he can't beat their sheer numbers either.

[Saiga]

17, 18 and 16 all get annihilated.

Considering that Dende is the God of Earth, Piccolo must be merged with Nail and he got stomped by one Meta-Coola. Therefore Goku and Vegeta must be stronger than the androids in this timeline and so the androids wouldn't succeed.

[Kaboom]

Considering that Dende is the God of Earth, Piccolo must be merged with Nail and he got stomped by one Meta-Coola. Therefore Goku and Vegeta must be stronger than the androids in this timeline and so the androids wouldn't succeed.

Some nifty trivia: I've looked closely at this before, and I think the timing works out so that the Coola who owned Piccolo may have been around the same time as the final wave that were stronger than Goku and Vegeta as well. So it's possible that Piccolo in Movie 6 is re-merged and already stronger than Goku or Vegeta, but the last batch of Metal Coolas are stronger than all 3 of them.

[Saiga]

Considering that Dende is the God of Earth, Piccolo must be merged with Nail and he got stomped by one Meta-Coola. Therefore Goku and Vegeta must be stronger than the androids in this timeline and so the androids wouldn't succeed.

Some nifty trivia: I've looked closely at this before, and I think the timing works out so that the Coola who owned Piccolo may have been around the same time as the final wave that were stronger than Goku and Vegeta as well. So it's possible that Piccolo in Movie 6 is re-merged and already stronger than Goku or Vegeta, but the last batch of Metal Coolas are stronger than all 3 of them.

So Piccolo basically got screwed thanks to bad timing?

Excellent.

[CatouttaHell]

#17 and #18 get stomped. #18 tanked SSjin Vegeta's punch to the gut while smiling (and Anime-wise, without budging, unlike Metal Coola) so I think she and #17 could beat a Metal Coola at equal Battle Powers, though not hundreds of them.

With #16 though I think they'd win. He held his own against a guy who completely tanked Kamiccolo's most powerful blast, which should be >>> Saiya-jin arc blasts in terms of amplification. I believe he's at least 3-5x Kamiccolo, and thus probably more than enough to rape the entire army of Metal Coolas at once.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Future Trunks after the Cell-Games vs. Ultimate Gohan at equal power levels.

Trunks cannot transform into Super Saiyan, of course.

Trunks was only trained by future Gohan (who had even less time training with various sparring partners than present Gohan, since they were dead). Gohan was trained by Gokuu and Piccolo, and did some image sparring with Kuririn on the way to Namek. So Gohan wins.

Considering that Dende is the God of Earth, Piccolo must be merged with Nail and he got stomped by one Meta-Coola. Therefore Goku and Vegeta must be stronger than the androids in this timeline and so the androids wouldn't succeed.

Some nifty trivia: I've looked closely at this before, and I think the timing works out so that the Coola who owned Piccolo may have been around the same time as the final wave that were stronger than Goku and Vegeta as well. So it's possible that Piccolo in Movie 6 is re-merged and already stronger than Goku or Vegeta, but the last batch of Metal Coolas are stronger than all 3 of them.

So Piccolo basically got screwed thanks to bad timing?

Excellent.

I think that Piccolo wasn't merged with God at all, was weaker than Gokuu and Vegeta (since he didn't get to battle the main villain and fought henchmen with Gohan and Kuririn) and the movies don't necessarily have to be placed anywhere because it's clear that they don't try to and do I really need to repeat this?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

#17 & #18 would get beaten in the end, but #16 will get rid of all of them, because he is stronger and has infinite energy. Or, #17 or #18 use their bombs to destroy all of Metal Coolas, ending the battle in draw. So, the Metal Coolas are doomed either way.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Kibitoshin vs. Super Saiyan 3 Son Gokuu (alive).

[Saiga]

I think that Piccolo wasn't merged with God at all, was weaker than Gokuu and Vegeta (since he didn't get to battle the main villain and fought henchmen with Gohan and Kuririn) and the movies don't necessarily have to be placed anywhere because it's clear that they don't try to and do I really need to repeat this?

But then where is God and why is Dende the Guardian? For the sake of the battle discussion finding a place to put the movie is somewhat necessary to estimate the strength of the Meta-Coolas.

[Kaboom]

But then where is God and why is Dende the Guardian? For the sake of the battle discussion finding a place to put the movie is somewhat necessary to estimate the strength of the Meta-Coolas.

This is why we don't speak of Movie continuity, especially for #6.

Everybody appears to be as they were in the early Androids arc, but Dende is already the new Kami, they know where New Namek is, and Daizenshuu #6 says it appears to be between the Cell Games' announcement and commencement, citing Vegeta being a Super Saiyan as a reason yet Gohan isn't one yet, and still isn't one in Movie 7 after it..

Needless to say, it's kind of a mess.

Kibitoshin vs. Super Saiyan 3 Son Gokuu (dead).

Kaiobitoshin's power was much more than it was before the merger, but he still seemed to be treated as just potential collateral damage against Boo, and even left the fighting of Pure Boo up to Goku and Vegeta. Whether the latter was because he was inferior to them in power or just generally useless in battle, we don't really know.

But regardless, there's no way he's as effective and powerful a fighter as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, especially not a dead Goku who has his full SSj3 power available to freely use.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But then where is God and why is Dende the Guardian? For the sake of the battle discussion finding a place to put the movie is somewhat necessary to estimate the strength of the Meta-Coolas.

This is why we don't speak of Movie continuity, especially for #6.

Everybody appears to be as they were in the early Androids arc, but Dende is already the new Kami, they know where New Namek is, and Daizenshuu #6 says it appears to be between the Cell Games' announcement and commencement, citing Vegeta being a Super Saiyan as a reason yet Gohan isn't one yet, and still isn't one in Movie 7 after it..

Needless to say, it's kind of a mess.

Exactly. Even if Piccolo is merged with God, that doesn't automatically make the movie make sense. And I know that you don't have to be the strongest to fight the main villain, but it's normally like that (especially in the movies) where the strongest guys fight the main villain, while their friends or whatever fight the henchmen. Following this same logic, I don't think that Piccolo was merged with God in DBZ Movie #7, since the focus was on the Super Saiyans. Not Piccolo, who jumped in halfway and swung an off-guard #13 away from Gokuu before getting wrecked like the rest of them.

Basically, I wouldn't think too hard about it. They're not meant to fit into the timeline anyway. You're still free to make up scenarios as to how certain movies could work, though. I like to believe that DBZ Movie #5 is if Gokuu killed Freeza on Namek and returned to Earth in time, so presumably he didn't go to Yardrat and learn teleportation. This causes a plothole with DBZ Movie #6, though, its apparent sequel (and I think Goku teleports in that movie), but like I said - they don't make sense.

I can make as many explanations as I like in varying levels of improbability, but they'll still never all tie into a fluent continuity, because they're not meant to and the many inconsistencies and plotholes with trying to apply it to the main series cause a clusterfuck.

To answer the match-up, I'd say the same as Kaboom.

But regardless, there's no way he's as effective and powerful a fighter as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, especially not a dead Goku who has his full SSj3 power available to freely use.

Oh shit, I meant to put "alive". I guess I got it the wrong way round because I was thinking of "alive = positive" and "dead = negative".

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Kibitoshin vs. Super Saiyan 3 Son Gokuu (alive).

Goku beats him, and easily. The fact that Vegeta was more helpful than Kaioshin in the battle with Pure Boo proves this.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Is it worth factoring in the psychic powers, which normal Kaioushin was able to paralyze SS2 Gohan with? They could've become even stronger when he merged with Kibito (although nothing suggests it), who may or may not have magic and/or psychic powers too.

Also, I just want to throw in this:

Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P11.2-4
Context: right after Kaioshin and Kibito merge
Kaioshin: “Oooh! Am-amazing! This is amazing power! Hahaah! [ ] Goku! I can fight too like this! I’ll go with you!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Don’t get carried away! No matter how strong you’ve become, you were never anything special. I doubt you could fight Boo head-on; you’d just end up getting absorbed. So stay here.”

I don't know whether or not this is somewhat contradictory. Boo only ever absorbs those stronger than him or worthy of benefit. E.g. Boo absorbed Gotenks, to defeat Gohan, and Piccolo, for his intelligence. And then later, he absorbed Gohan after Gotenks' fusion time within him ran out and he reverted to Piccolo-Boo. Seeing as Kaioushin doesn't seem to be that particularly intelligent (at least, no more than usual; Piccolo, on the other hand, had consistently shown throughout the series that he was one of the smartest heroes), could this suggest that Kaioushin could actually be strong enough to be a threat for Boo that he'd need to absorb him?

Or am I, like many others, over-analyzing this quote, it's not as if anyone completely understands Boo's unpredictable mind but him and he was just basically trying to say that Kaioushin wouldn't do shit against Boo and, if worst comes to worst, could even get absorbed by him for whatever reason (maybe Boo would just do it for the hell of it).

Not that I necessarily agree with all of that, though. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

[In Brightest Day]

Yamcha vs. Chaozu and Yajirobe in the Saiyan arc.

During the Earthlings training with Kami, theirs a brief scene in the Anime where Yamcha is sparring with these two. If Yaji & Chaozu took Yamucha on at the battle powers they all had by the time the Saiyans came along, who would come out on top?

[Saiga]

Yamcha vs. Chaozu and Yajirobe in the Saiyan arc.

During the Earthlings training with Kami, theirs a brief scene in the Anime where Yamcha is sparring with these two. If Yaji & Chaozu took Yamucha on at the battle powers they all had by the time the Saiyans came along, who would come out on top?

Yajirobe, clearly being the strongest here, solos Yamcha.