The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Noah]

New match:

- SSJ Future Gohan vs. SSJ Future Vegeta

[dragonball0900]

New match:

- SSJ Future Gohan vs. SSJ Future Vegeta

Gohan is probably weaker than Future Trunks. I have Future Trunks at 170,000,000, so Gohan is weaker than that. However, I don't know how he compares to SSJ Namek Goku (150,000,000). Vegeta on the other hand, when Goku returned from Yardrat, he would have like 3,000,000 in base. Some more years in training and being a SSJ, he would reach like around 3,500,000 and then SSJ with 175,000,000.

I'd say Vegeta probably wins, I mean, nothing contradicts it, and the Androids were way stronger than both of them.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Future Trunks Arc) vs Goku Black (Base)

[Lord Beerus]

Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Future Trunks Arc) vs Goku Black (Base)

If this is after he fights SSJ2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku getting crushed like an ant. And if this is before that fight... it's the same result.

[Berserker1921]

Team hero vs team villain? (All equal powers to the person they face)

Team hero
1. Toppo
2. Dyspo
3. Jaco
4. Saiyaman
5. Jiren

Team villain
1. Ginyu (no switching bodies)
2. Burter
3. Guldo
4. Jeice
5. Recoome

Villain gauntlet (Frieza runs the gauntlet. Equal power to everyone he faces. Golden form does give boost but screws with stamina if he is in it too long.)

1. Nappa
2. Turles
3. Ginyu (no change)
4. Cooler (no metal form)
5. Cell
6. Broly
7. Bojack
8. Kid buu (no absorbing or candy beam)
9. Janemba
10. Black

[dragon boss z]

Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Future Trunks Arc) vs Goku Black (Base)

If this is after he fights SSJ2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku getting crushed like an ant. And if this is before that fight... it's the same result.

But Trunks stated Black was probably around ssj3 Goku level. So it should go pre ssj2 fight base Black<=>ssj3 Goku<post ssj2 fight base Black

[pacz360]

drugged basil runs a gaunlet
1.super perfect cell
2.ssj2 teen gohan
3.ssj2 goku
4.majin vegeta
drugged form wont wear off

[Lord Beerus]

Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Future Trunks Arc) vs Goku Black (Base)

If this is after he fights SSJ2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku getting crushed like an ant. And if this is before that fight... it's the same result.

But Trunks stated Black was probably around ssj3 Goku level. So it should go pre ssj2 fight base Black<=>ssj3 Goku<post ssj2 fight base Black

In the manga, SSJ2 Future Trunks is as powerful as SSJ3 Goku and Base Goku Black kicked SSJ2 Future Trunks ass.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

If this is after he fights SSJ2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku getting crushed like an ant. And if this is before that fight... it's the same result.

But Trunks stated Black was probably around ssj3 Goku level. So it should go pre ssj2 fight base Black<=>ssj3 Goku<post ssj2 fight base Black

In the manga, SSJ2 Future Trunks is as powerful as SSJ3 Goku and Base Goku Black kicked SSJ2 Future Trunks ass.

But that's in the manga, not in the anime.

[dragon boss z]

If this is after he fights SSJ2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku getting crushed like an ant. And if this is before that fight... it's the same result.

But Trunks stated Black was probably around ssj3 Goku level. So it should go pre ssj2 fight base Black<=>ssj3 Goku<post ssj2 fight base Black

In the manga, SSJ2 Future Trunks is as powerful as SSJ3 Goku and Base Goku Black kicked SSJ2 Future Trunks ass.

It was almost implied it was a new grade of ssj2, as long as these translations are correct.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Also ss2 Vegeta who should be weaker than ssj3 Goku was beating ssj Black. And even if ssj2 Vegeta was stronger than ssj3 Goku, it shouldn't be by so much that ssj3 Goku<Base Black<ssj Black<ssj2 Vegeta.

[LowRyder2005]

drugged basil runs a gaunlet
1.super perfect cell
2.ssj2 teen gohan
3.ssj2 goku
4.majin vegeta
drugged form wont wear off

If he faced Fat Buu and achieved the same feats, I think I'd probably rate him as comparable to Majin Vegeta, or closer to Fat Buu than Majin Vegeta. While he gets k.o'd, he is not immediately annihilated by Buu's Kamehameha (and I wouldn't see Majin Vegeta surviving something like that). In which case, he may clear.

However, since he faced the supposedly much inferior Good Buu, I could probably see him in the upper echelons of the Cell Game, but not that much above Perfect Cell. Unfortunately, no joy for him in this gauntlet in my opinion.

[pacz360]

drugged basil runs a gaunlet
1.super perfect cell
2.ssj2 teen gohan
3.ssj2 goku
4.majin vegeta
drugged form wont wear off

If he faced Fat Buu and achieved the same feats, I think I'd probably rate him as comparable to Majin Vegeta, or closer to Fat Buu than Majin Vegeta. While he gets k.o'd, he is not immediately annihilated by Buu's Kamehameha (and I wouldn't see Majin Vegeta surviving something like that). In which case, he may clear.

However, since he faced the supposedly much inferior Good Buu, I could probably see him in the upper echelons of the Cell Game, but not that much above Perfect Cell. Unfortunately, no joy for him in this gauntlet in my opinion.

good buu did peform better against kid buu while ssj2 vegeta was nothing to him
mr buu while inferior to most versions should be a high ssj2 to low ssj3 tier
buu did resort to using a full power kamehameha to finish basil and basil was able to survive it and was even laughed while it happened
base basil should be around perfect cell- dabura level

[LowRyder2005]

drugged basil runs a gaunlet
1.super perfect cell
2.ssj2 teen gohan
3.ssj2 goku
4.majin vegeta
drugged form wont wear off

If he faced Fat Buu and achieved the same feats, I think I'd probably rate him as comparable to Majin Vegeta, or closer to Fat Buu than Majin Vegeta. While he gets k.o'd, he is not immediately annihilated by Buu's Kamehameha (and I wouldn't see Majin Vegeta surviving something like that). In which case, he may clear.

However, since he faced the supposedly much inferior Good Buu, I could probably see him in the upper echelons of the Cell Game, but not that much above Perfect Cell. Unfortunately, no joy for him in this gauntlet in my opinion.

good buu did peform better against kid buu while ssj2 vegeta was nothing to him
mr buu while inferior to most versions should be a high ssj2 to low ssj3 tier
buu did resort to using a full power kamehameha to finish basil and basil was able to survive it and was even laughed while it happened
base basil should be around perfect cell- dabura level

Well, actually, he visibly panicked while trying the withstand the blow. He laughed afterwards... and then fainted, most likely since the Kamehameha had still utterly wrecked his body.

Normal Basil can't even k.o. current Goku, who's implied to be inferior to current #18. Unless #18 made some gigantic gains training with Krillin, and it seems like a stretch, I don't see how any form Cell starting from Semi-Perfect would have any kind of trouble against normal Basil. I can understand the question about the drugged Basil, but in his natural state he's really not that strong even by mid/late Z standards.

[pacz360]

If he faced Fat Buu and achieved the same feats, I think I'd probably rate him as comparable to Majin Vegeta, or closer to Fat Buu than Majin Vegeta. While he gets k.o'd, he is not immediately annihilated by Buu's Kamehameha (and I wouldn't see Majin Vegeta surviving something like that). In which case, he may clear.

However, since he faced the supposedly much inferior Good Buu, I could probably see him in the upper echelons of the Cell Game, but not that much above Perfect Cell. Unfortunately, no joy for him in this gauntlet in my opinion.

good buu did peform better against kid buu while ssj2 vegeta was nothing to him
mr buu while inferior to most versions should be a high ssj2 to low ssj3 tier
buu did resort to using a full power kamehameha to finish basil and basil was able to survive it and was even laughed while it happened
base basil should be around perfect cell- dabura level

Well, actually, he visibly panicked while trying the withstand the blow. He laughed afterwards... and then fainted, most likely since the Kamehameha had still utterly wrecked his body.

Normal Basil can't even k.o. current Goku, who's implied to be inferior to current #18. Unless #18 made some gigantic gains training with Krillin, and it seems like a stretch, I don't see how any form Cell starting from Semi-Perfect would have any kind of trouble against normal Basil. I can understand the question about the drugged Basil, but in his natural state he's really not that strong even by mid/late Z standards.

Current base goku isn't inferior to 18 outside of tupper catching him off guard what feats 18 has that scream she superior to base goku?
None whatsoever
And no there's no reason so leave it

[MainJPW]

what feats 18 has that scream she superior to base goku?

Lifting and throwing Tupper.

[pacz360]

what feats 18 has that scream she superior to base goku?

Lifting and throwing Tupper.

Gonna need more than that..
18 a question mark on where she stands as of now.

[LowRyder2005]

what feats 18 has that scream she superior to base goku?

Lifting and throwing Tupper.

Gonna need more than that..
18 a question mark on where she stands as of now.

You use ki to enhance your physical strength, and your ki + characteristics determine overall your battle power. It sounds kind of counter-intuitive to argue that 18's ki is, like, 1/1,000 of Goku, and that her natural physical strength can counter-balance such a gargantuan disparity. I don't think anyone would envision #18's muscles as being stronger than Cell's.
I've just rewatched the scene. Ignoring the writer's intent, which I frankly find rather obvious (as in: no one would write a scene like that to pass off the message #18 is weaker than Goku), and assuming the only thing Goku wouldn't do - other than more self-harm - in this occasion is turning Super Saiyan to save stamina, an in-universe argument can easily be made:

- Tupper's full-nelson is enough to restrain Goku: if you watch carefully you can also see Goku struggling from the very beginning as if he's (understandably) trying to free himself; this also technically happens before Tupper announces he can raise his weight or switches to his weighted form (which has a particular, skeleton-like make-up). While full-nelsons can historically work on opponents of similar strength and build, they never helped if a fighter was massively above the other one: Goku could full-nelson Raditz and block him, but Ultimate Gohan couldn't full-nelson Beerus.

- If this is not enough of a confirmation (and to be truthful it isn't), we also see #18's blasts hurting Tupper, which wouldn't make sense if she wasn't equal or stronger than however strong Tupper was. Plus, since I'm confronting a rather picky argument, I may as well want to hit "Cinema Sins" levels of pickiness myself: namely, what exactly stops Goku from blasting Tupper like #18 did from that stance as well? His hands are always in perfect position to strike long before Tupper becomes too much of a literal burden to bear. Assuming he didn't because it wouldn't work at any point, which would be the most reasonable assumption, this already would put #18 above base Goku.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

In short, Tupper, Goku and #18 at bare minimum need to belong to the same tier of strength: Tupper's strength is in the same realm of Goku's, with #18 having probably some sort of edge on at least Tupper even going by this scene alone.

- Finally, #18 lifts a Tupper who is at least still heavy. Even assuming Tupper had momentarily lowered his weight to attack, which really isn't said, we know his weight is still enormous (the narrative places emphasis on the fact his elimination happens as the edge of the arena, Kachi Katchin, crumbles under Tupper's weight when he's standing still on it) and he'd have no apparent reason not to raise his weight on top of #18 when he realizes his current, supposedly lighter build, is not enough. In short, being reasonable, it means, either the weight Tupper used against Goku wouldn't work on #18, or that Tupper's abilities wouldn't work on #18 in general. In both cases, #18 ends up stronger than Goku.

So, yes, unless we want go towards the PIS/CIS route, the Tupper scene is just a little short of a clear statement akin to "#18 is massively more powerful than base Goku", but does indeed "scream" that #18 is stronger. At the very least, if she's not stronger, the scene suggests that all three are in the same ballpark, which still strengthens my point that Goku's strength is not supposed to be that far off from current #18, who in turn did at most some hours of casual training. Again, we could argue that both Goku and Tupper are acting like idiots (i.e. "Goku struggles, but doesn't break free because he doesn't use enough strength", "Tupper lowers his weight - which isn't told - and casually forgets to raise it again when #18 is lifting him up with one hand"), but I wouldn't really see the point nor much impartiality, since the scene works if you simply assume #18 was needed to save (base) Goku.

[gammabeast21]

Vegetto (Buu Arc) vs Trio De Dangers

Vegetto has no time limit.
Trio De Dangers aren't being distracted/coached by Kaioshin Rou.

[LowRyder2005]

Vegetto (Buu Arc) vs Trio De Dangers

Vegetto has no time limit.
Trio De Dangers aren't being distracted/coached by Kaioshin Rou.

Welcome to Kanzenshuu.

Vegito turns Super Saiyan and immediately atomizes Lavenda and Basil with one mean look in any possible scenario. It's then a matter of how Bergamo's ability compares to Vegito's strength; most likely, unless Vegito toys with Bergamo and avoids using a barrier prolongedly, the wolf would still not pose a significant challenge.

[gammabeast21]

Welcome to Kanzenshuu.

Thanks for the welcome. I really appreciate it. Most versus forums just call me an idiot for having an opinion that isn't theirs or mainstream, let alone welcome me to the community.


I thought that the Danger's Triangle and Lavendar's poison would allow them to be comparable as to Vegetto. I agree that Bergamo's power is a curve ball as we don't know how it actually works and when he can use it.