The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

That's pure headcanon, it was never said anywhere that Roshi was only Namek saga level.

In RoF he was having trouble with Frieza soldier grunts. It's pure headcanon to say he is anything above namek level.

Is it really so hard to believe he is jus holding back?

Then why did he go ssj to stop himself from going off the building? If he was holding back he should of just powered up his base.

The reason why Good Buu got the Fit form in the first place was because of training. Assuming that Fat Buu didn't get any better is pure headcanon. You are forgetting that transformations in DB are multipliers not fixed tiers. It was never said anywhere that Fat Buu is only as strong as he was in the Buu arc.

I don't think you know what headcanon is. Buu is the same strength until proven otherwise, that's how things always work. It's your headcanon that he got stronger.

No they don't. Otherwise there would be no need for power-ups in the first place and everyone would have an equal shot against everyone else, which they don't. Is it so hard to believe that a character is holding back even when they literally say they are holding back? The show makes it clear how strong x character is through feats, all-out fights and statements, just like in Z and Early DB. Its not rocket science lol.

That's not really what I meant. Obviously characters are stronger than others, I meant it's not like Z anymore when being stronger makes you untouchable or unhurtable.

Wrong. The Daizenshuu confirms that Buuhan can really cause ripples in the universe.
http://i.gyazo.com/2beddef29078508b65ec7236f4f1f86d.png

My point was Buu was able to threaten the universe just like SSG so I don't see your point.

The universe shockwaves in the Goku vs Beerus fight was in the manga too.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/01/0f/be ... ecd13d.jpg

Ya, but they didn't actually destroy anything.

Again, transformations are multipliers in DB.

Show me the source that says all multipliers in DB are always static and never change.

The fact that in Z 1st form Freeza was 530,000 and Final Form was 120 million, with simple math you can see that Freeza's final form is a 226 times multiplier from his first. This shows that since RoF Freeza in ANY form solos all of Z and GT easily.

How does that show Frieza in any form can solo all of Z or GT?

Bro, the fight and dialogue made it clear than tired SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Caulifla aren't that far off in power. This was made clear when Caulifla started to adapt to Goku's fighting style. And yes, skill does factor. A more skillfully thrown punch and kick has more power to it than a less skilled one for the same person. Any boxing couch and martial arts teacher would tell you that.

Ya, but not enough to make it so you can fight someone 100x stronger than you. Nail couldn't even hurt Frieza when Frieza let him hit him, and their power gap was only a little more than 10x.

If we see stuff like Krillin matching Beerus in an all-out fight, then you can complain about powerscaling lmao.

Some things were pretty bad. Like Tagoma stomping Piccolo, ss2 Trunks being much weaker than base black but then all of a sudden he can fight SSR Black, Goku being weaker than Black but all of a sudden he can damage fused Zamasu, 17 becoming god tier all of a sudden, Gohan becoming god tier from training for a day, Roshi being able to fight in the ToP, ect.

The manga has been better with power scaling, but even the manga messed up big time once. Ssj2 Trunks was shown to be weaker than Black, ssj2 Trunks was almost equal with ssj3 Goku, ssj2 Vegeta was stronger than ssj Black. So unless Black's ssj multiplier was less than x2, ssj2 Vegeta was much stronger than ssj3 Goku, which doesn't make sense unless his rage boost against Beerus was permanent.

The images make it clear that base Goku = SSG Goku from that arc. That's why he said "I don't feel like my power has decreased" after the SSG form faded. You are being in denial. https://pm1.narvii.com/6553/4794b14ccc0 ... a9e_hq.jpg
https://pm1.narvii.com/6544/26f98d6fcbf ... 645_hq.jpg

The Buu saga is irrelevant fodder now, its a clear fact.

That's not what Krillin said in the correct translation. He said the fight was different than the one against Beerus because of the bloodlust, or something along those lines.

[Hugo Boss]

Buu saga Vegito even in SSJ3 doesn't stand a chance. Base Goku himself is above all of the Buu saga, and both Caulifla and Kale in their strongest forms could at least match ToP SSJ2 Goku.

Buu saga Vegito is fodder. Kale is relative to a Goku who is >>>>>> his BoG counterpart. That's why Base Kefla was able to completely fodderize him

Buu saga characters are irrelevant now

Aren’t you two extrapolating a bit? Super Vegetto is one of at least two characters that are stronger than Gohan and he easily dominated a form of Majin Boo that had Gohan absorbed. The best a normal Saiyan could do in Super is dominating SS3 Gotenks, who is weaker than that Gohan. Using SSG’s power after the form disappeared was something only commented on Beerus’ fight and it was later confirmed by Whis that neither Goku nor Vegeta were at that level when they started training with him. I thought that was already clarified.

False. It was outright said in BoG (all versions) that Goku while fighting Beerus absorbed and surpassed SSG in base. Vegeta would later surpass that while training with Whis (as confirmed by Goku himself when he comes back from training).

Base Goku and Vegeta>>>>>>>>>>>>all of Z and GT is an undeniable fact at this point.

What is false about what I said? Anyone with access to Crunchyroll (legal streaming service) can verify what the characters claimed. And you said all the versions, but the anime version only portrays the Super Saiyan form in the level of Super Saiyan God, not the base. In the same episode that Goku notes Vegeta got stronger, there is a scene in which Whis talks about not allowing them to use Super Saiyan in the training and he uses a metaphor to claim they were still not quite at the level of gods and they needed to endure that harsh training if they were to reach that realm.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

Got another hypothetical question for today. Today , I'm not gonna be asking about characters from Super, but from Z, although I will tie this into Super. This is a question that people had in their minds for decades, and I am asking...

How strong would Majin Vegeta be if he achieved Super Saiyan 3 and who would be the strongest person he would beat? And since he was only Majin for a short period of time, how would SSJ3 Regular Vegeta be at the end of the Buu Arc? And considering in Battle of Gods, he surpassed SSJ3 Goku when Beerus slapped Bulma in his SSJ2 form, how powerful would his "My Bulma!" boost be now that he has SSJ3 himself?

[PFM18]

Aren’t you two extrapolating a bit? Super Vegetto is one of at least two characters that are stronger than Gohan and he easily dominated a form of Majin Boo that had Gohan absorbed. The best a normal Saiyan could do in Super is dominating SS3 Gotenks, who is weaker than that Gohan. Using SSG’s power after the form disappeared was something only commented on Beerus’ fight and it was later confirmed by Whis that neither Goku nor Vegeta were at that level when they started training with him. I thought that was already clarified.

False. It was outright said in BoG (all versions) that Goku while fighting Beerus absorbed and surpassed SSG in base. Vegeta would later surpass that while training with Whis (as confirmed by Goku himself when he comes back from training).

Base Goku and Vegeta>>>>>>>>>>>>all of Z and GT is an undeniable fact at this point.

What is false about what I said? Anyone with access to Crunchyroll (legal streaming service) can verify what the characters claimed. And you said all the versions, but the anime version only portrays the Super Saiyan form in the level of Super Saiyan God, not the base. In the same episode that Goku notes Vegeta got stronger, there is a scene in which Whis talks about not allowing them to use Super Saiyan in the training and he uses a metaphor to claim they were still not quite at the level of gods and they needed to endure that harsh training if they were to reach that realm.

Yeah the anime version portrays normal Super Saiyan being significantly stronger than Super Saiyan God. But based on the entirety of the entire series prior to this, Base is just SSJ/50. So that Super Saiyan divided by 50 is AT BARE MINIMUM as strong as Buuhan. And they only got several times stronger than that throughout the series to the point that it isn't outlandish to say that Base Goku/Vegeta are right on par with a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from the buu saga.

[ToshioWrites]

All this Power creep could have just been avoided if Goku didn’t absorb ssg but instead kept the form the whole time . I know I know what a novel concept that he keep the form that 75% of the movie was spent hyping up.

In the anime ANYONE at Base Goku level would annihilate BoG ssg Goku. Meaning magetta or Cabba or frost at u6 tournament would have given Beerus a better fight than Goku.

[Pantalones]

How strong would Majin Vegeta be if he achieved Super Saiyan 3 and who would be the strongest person he would beat?

He'd be as strong as SSj3 Goku was during the Buu Saga -- they were evenly matched in SSj2 form, so the same should go for their SSj3 forms.

As for who he could beat -- according to Goku, he would've been able to beat Fat Buu using SSj3. He also fought Kid Buu pretty much evenly. So I figure Vegeta would be the same way. The only difference? Vegeta's self-destructing move (Final Explosion?) would probably be enough to finish off Kid Buu, considering that he'd be even with Buu in SSj3 to begin with and that attack hits way harder than any regular blast from whoever's using it (going by how even in SSj2 it was enough to blow Fat Buu apart and actually hurt him a bit, despite how Fat Buu was so much stronger than any of the SSJ2 characters that all of them going after him at once wouldn't have made much of a difference.)

And since he was only Majin for a short period of time, how would SSJ3 Regular Vegeta be at the end of the Buu Arc?

Vegeta doesn't even really seem to have gotten weaker after the M on his forehead went away, so he'd probably be the same strength he was before. Babidi's spell to put someone under his control doesn't automatically draw out their dormant power, that was a separate spell he used immediately afterward -- so just because one wore off when Babidi died doesn't mean the other would automatically go away too.

And considering in Battle of Gods, he surpassed SSJ3 Goku when Beerus slapped Bulma in his SSJ2 form, how powerful would his "My Bulma!" boost be now that he has SSJ3 himself?

His "mutated SSj2" rage boost made him way stronger than he would've been as a SSj3 (putting him far enough ahead of characters like Gotenks and Gohan that he was able to catch Beerus off guard even though he was ready for fighters on that level.)

It's hard to say exactly how strong he'd end up since we don't even know for sure how strong "mutated SSj2" was in the first place... but if we assume the boost in power would still be the same for "mutated SSj3," I guess he could be around 4 times what "mutated SSj2" Vegeta was, since normal SSj3 is usually 4 times as strong as normal SSj2.

[blain218]

Super Perfect Cell vs Roshi (ToP)
Dyspo vs Copy-Vegeta
Base Kefla vs Future Zamasu

[PFM18]

All this Power creep could have just been avoided if Goku didn’t absorb ssg but instead kept the form the whole time . I know I know what a novel concept that he keep the form that 75% of the movie was spent hyping up.

In the anime ANYONE at Base Goku level would annihilate BoG ssg Goku. Meaning magetta or Cabba or frost at u6 tournament would have given Beerus a better fight than Goku.

Well I mean what is wrong with the power creep? Is it inherently bad?

Actually not neccessarily because Goku didn't become stronger than SSG in Base but his regular super saiyan form during BoG. So unless his Base got more than 50x stronger since BoG then his base should still be weaker than SSG from BoG. But yeah you're right Cabba ssj would have given Beerus a better fight than Goku at the time.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Nappa trains in the ROSAT for 20 years with Vegeta, and then gets his potential unlocked by Elder Kai and obtains MUI. Who would win between MUI Nappa after training and Toppo without his Hakaishin form? Its the battle of the big white moustaches.

Super Shenron vs Zeno (Super Shenron can't grant a wish to kill or erase Zeno and Zeno can't erase Super Shenron)

[Spider-Man]

Super Perfect Cell vs Roshi (ToP)
Dyspo vs Copy-Vegeta
Base Kefla vs Future Zamasu

Super Perfect Cell stomp

Dyspo

Future Zamasu.

[Puaru]

Ultimate Gohan (ToP) VS Berserker Kale.

[Hugo Boss]

False. It was outright said in BoG (all versions) that Goku while fighting Beerus absorbed and surpassed SSG in base. Vegeta would later surpass that while training with Whis (as confirmed by Goku himself when he comes back from training).

Base Goku and Vegeta>>>>>>>>>>>>all of Z and GT is an undeniable fact at this point.

What is false about what I said? Anyone with access to Crunchyroll (legal streaming service) can verify what the characters claimed. And you said all the versions, but the anime version only portrays the Super Saiyan form in the level of Super Saiyan God, not the base. In the same episode that Goku notes Vegeta got stronger, there is a scene in which Whis talks about not allowing them to use Super Saiyan in the training and he uses a metaphor to claim they were still not quite at the level of gods and they needed to endure that harsh training if they were to reach that realm.

Yeah the anime version portrays normal Super Saiyan being significantly stronger than Super Saiyan God. But based on the entirety of the entire series prior to this, Base is just SSJ/50. So that Super Saiyan divided by 50 is AT BARE MINIMUM as strong as Buuhan. And they only got several times stronger than that throughout the series to the point that it isn't outlandish to say that Base Goku/Vegeta are right on par with a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from the buu saga.

Where exactly? You mean when Goku and Vegeta use Super Saiyan Blue for the first time? I don’t understand how you reach the conclusion some made-up multiplier or the other makes Goku as strong as X character in a determined form.

[PFM18]

What is false about what I said? Anyone with access to Crunchyroll (legal streaming service) can verify what the characters claimed. And you said all the versions, but the anime version only portrays the Super Saiyan form in the level of Super Saiyan God, not the base. In the same episode that Goku notes Vegeta got stronger, there is a scene in which Whis talks about not allowing them to use Super Saiyan in the training and he uses a metaphor to claim they were still not quite at the level of gods and they needed to endure that harsh training if they were to reach that realm.

Yeah the anime version portrays normal Super Saiyan being significantly stronger than Super Saiyan God. But based on the entirety of the entire series prior to this, Base is just SSJ/50. So that Super Saiyan divided by 50 is AT BARE MINIMUM as strong as Buuhan. And they only got several times stronger than that throughout the series to the point that it isn't outlandish to say that Base Goku/Vegeta are right on par with a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from the buu saga.

Where exactly? You mean when Goku and Vegeta use Super Saiyan Blue for the first time? I don’t understand how you reach the conclusion some made-up multiplier or the other makes Goku as strong as X character in a determined form.

What? I have no idea what you are talking about. what made-up multiplier? I was just using an official multiplier? and said nothing about Super Saiyan Blue?

I am not sure what you are confused about what I said so I will just clarify what I said.

Ok so it was stated by the narrator, the episode title, and Beerus that Goku had surpassed Super Saiyan God in his Super Saiyan form.(people like to argue Base Goku>SSG Goku too but that is less substantiated) so then since:
SSJ Goku = Base Goku*50
it follows that:
Base Goku = SSJGoku/50

And since Super Saiyan God was implied to be significantly stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto(Goku said Fusion wouldnt be enough against a Suppressed Beerus, then when he attained SSG he said "I ddin't think a power like this could even exist" and since Vegetto could obviously go SSJ3 Goku impled SSG>SSJ3 Vegetto) Now, if we let Base Vegetto be a 1 then it follows that by the multipliers:
Base Vegetto:1
SSJ3 Vegetto: 400
if we assume SSG Goku is twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto(which may be conservative) then it follows that:
SSG Goku:800
Now, since all 3 sources I mentioned explicitly state that SSJ Goku surpassed SSG Goku, we can estimate he surpassed it by 20%. Then it follows that:
SSJ Goku:960
Base Goku: 19.2

Therefore, Base Goku immediately after the BoG saga is atleast 19.2x stronger than Base Vegetto.

So given by the material that we have been given we can reasonably conclude that Base Goku is 19x stronger than Base Vegetto. Now, I used the numbers 2x and 20% respectively, but if you wanted to lowball it you could use 50% and 10% and you could conclude Goku is 13x stronger than Base Vegetto.

Now if you are one of those people that are under the impression that Base Goku(ToP) > SSG Goku(BoG)then the respective numbers would be 950x and 650x stronger than Base Vegetto.(Me personally I don't believe that but still)

So I mean I guess I just explained this basically before. the basic concept that Base = SSJ/50(which for some reason you thought was a made up multiplier) and SSJ>SSG during BoG.

[dragon boss z]

Got another hypothetical question for today. Today , I'm not gonna be asking about characters from Super, but from Z, although I will tie this into Super. This is a question that people had in their minds for decades, and I am asking...

How strong would Majin Vegeta be if he achieved Super Saiyan 3 and who would be the strongest person he would beat? And since he was only Majin for a short period of time, how would SSJ3 Regular Vegeta be at the end of the Buu Arc? And considering in Battle of Gods, he surpassed SSJ3 Goku when Beerus slapped Bulma in his SSJ2 form, how powerful would his "My Bulma!" boost be now that he has SSJ3 himself?

Majin Vegeta was equal to Goku so he would be the same strength as ssj3 Goku as a ssj3. If my Bulma Vegeta went ssj3 he would probably at least be as strong as Vegito.

All this Power creep could have just been avoided if Goku didn’t absorb ssg but instead kept the form the whole time . I know I know what a novel concept that he keep the form that 75% of the movie was spent hyping up.

In the anime ANYONE at Base Goku level would annihilate BoG ssg Goku. Meaning magetta or Cabba or frost at u6 tournament would have given Beerus a better fight than Goku.

Base Goku is still nowhere near SSG Goku, or at the very least he isn't when he fights weak opponents. It is a power creep problem, but the writers just ignore it. In their minds I have no doubt they think any version of SSG Goku is above all the U6 fighters besides Hit, and maybe Magetta in terms of durability.

Super Perfect Cell vs Roshi (ToP)
Dyspo vs Copy-Vegeta
Base Kefla vs Future Zamasu

Cell breathes, Roshi dies.
Vegeta is stronger, but Dyspo is faster. If killing is allowed copy Vegeta probably wins.
Kefla is stronger but Zamasu is immortal.

Ultimate Gohan (ToP) VS Berserker Kale.

Gohan in a good fight.

[ToshioWrites]

Got another hypothetical question for today. Today , I'm not gonna be asking about characters from Super, but from Z, although I will tie this into Super. This is a question that people had in their minds for decades, and I am asking...

How strong would Majin Vegeta be if he achieved Super Saiyan 3 and who would be the strongest person he would beat? And since he was only Majin for a short period of time, how would SSJ3 Regular Vegeta be at the end of the Buu Arc? And considering in Battle of Gods, he surpassed SSJ3 Goku when Beerus slapped Bulma in his SSJ2 form, how powerful would his "My Bulma!" boost be now that he has SSJ3 himself?

Majin Vegeta was equal to Goku so he would be the same strength as ssj3 Goku as a ssj3. If my Bulma Vegeta went ssj3 he would probably at least be as strong as Vegito.

All this Power creep could have just been avoided if Goku didn’t absorb ssg but instead kept the form the whole time . I know I know what a novel concept that he keep the form that 75% of the movie was spent hyping up.

In the anime ANYONE at Base Goku level would annihilate BoG ssg Goku. Meaning magetta or Cabba or frost at u6 tournament would have given Beerus a better fight than Goku.

Base Goku is still nowhere near SSG Goku, or at the very least he isn't when he fights weak opponents. It is a power creep problem, but the writers just ignore it. In their minds I have no doubt they think any version of SSG Goku is above all the U6 fighters besides Hit, and maybe Magetta in terms of durability.

Super Perfect Cell vs Roshi (ToP)
Dyspo vs Copy-Vegeta
Base Kefla vs Future Zamasu

Cell breathes, Roshi dies.
Vegeta is stronger, but Dyspo is faster. If killing is allowed copy Vegeta probably wins.
Kefla is stronger but Zamasu is immortal.

Ultimate Gohan (ToP) VS Berserker Kale.

Base kefla is not stronger than merged zamasu. No way unless you mean completely degrading m zamasu
Gohan in a good fight.

[dragon boss z]

Base kefla is not stronger than merged zamasu. No way unless you mean completely degrading m zamasu

I think this is what you wrote? You need to learn how to quote correctly.
And I said base Kefla was stronger than future Zamasu, not merged Zamasu. Merged Zamasu is arguably stronger than ssj2 Kefla.

[ToshioWrites]

Base kefla is not stronger than merged zamasu. No way unless you mean completely degrading m zamasu

I think this is what you wrote? You need to learn how to quote correctly.
And I said base Kefla was stronger than future Zamasu, not merged Zamasu. Merged Zamasu is arguably stronger than ssj2 Kefla.

My bad, i read that as merged zamasu.

[Hugo Boss]

Yeah the anime version portrays normal Super Saiyan being significantly stronger than Super Saiyan God. But based on the entirety of the entire series prior to this, Base is just SSJ/50. So that Super Saiyan divided by 50 is AT BARE MINIMUM as strong as Buuhan. And they only got several times stronger than that throughout the series to the point that it isn't outlandish to say that Base Goku/Vegeta are right on par with a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from the buu saga.

Where exactly? You mean when Goku and Vegeta use Super Saiyan Blue for the first time? I don’t understand how you reach the conclusion some made-up multiplier or the other makes Goku as strong as X character in a determined form.

What? I have no idea what you are talking about. what made-up multiplier? I was just using an official multiplier? and said nothing about Super Saiyan Blue?

I am not sure what you are confused about what I said so I will just clarify what I said.

Ok so it was stated by the narrator, the episode title, and Beerus that Goku had surpassed Super Saiyan God in his Super Saiyan form.(people like to argue Base Goku>SSG Goku too but that is less substantiated) so then since:
SSJ Goku = Base Goku*50
it follows that:
Base Goku = SSJGoku/50

And since Super Saiyan God was implied to be significantly stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto(Goku said Fusion wouldnt be enough against a Suppressed Beerus, then when he attained SSG he said "I ddin't think a power like this could even exist" and since Vegetto could obviously go SSJ3 Goku impled SSG>SSJ3 Vegetto) Now, if we let Base Vegetto be a 1 then it follows that by the multipliers:
Base Vegetto:1
SSJ3 Vegetto: 400
if we assume SSG Goku is twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto(which may be conservative) then it follows that:
SSG Goku:800
Now, since all 3 sources I mentioned explicitly state that SSJ Goku surpassed SSG Goku, we can estimate he surpassed it by 20%. Then it follows that:
SSJ Goku:960
Base Goku: 19.2

Therefore, Base Goku immediately after the BoG saga is atleast 19.2x stronger than Base Vegetto.

So given by the material that we have been given we can reasonably conclude that Base Goku is 19x stronger than Base Vegetto. Now, I used the numbers 2x and 20% respectively, but if you wanted to lowball it you could use 50% and 10% and you could conclude Goku is 13x stronger than Base Vegetto.

Now if you are one of those people that are under the impression that Base Goku(ToP) > SSG Goku(BoG)then the respective numbers would be 950x and 650x stronger than Base Vegetto.(Me personally I don't believe that but still)

So I mean I guess I just explained this basically before. the basic concept that Base = SSJ/50(which for some reason you thought was a made up multiplier) and SSJ>SSG during BoG.

The 50-fold figure comes from a book released almost 10 years ago (one of Super Exciting Guides) that mostly reproduced what the manga already had provided us. By extension, the powerlevel of a Super Saiyan was presumed to be 50-fold when Goku fought Freeza according to Daizenshuu numbers, which were just made-up in the first place. We don’t have to take them literally and make further extrapolations as if they follow some undoubted rule.

By the way, there is nothing concrete on Episode 14, be a line or an episode title, that implies Super Saiyan Goku is significantly stronger than Super Saiyan God. Up until the end, they were referring to the power of SSG when comparing Goku with Beerus. Unless you think that last-ditch effort of Goku in his normal form is any evidence to go by, I don’t know where you got that from.. Actually, the bit about surpassing SSG is first assumed when Goku used Super Saiyan Blue for the first time.

Also, Goku only said that fusing with Vegeta wouldn’t be enough to defeat Beerus and that SSG’s power was beyond imagination. This doesn’t mean he is saying SSG is stronger than some hypothetical SS3 Vegetto, since we know jack of what Goku was imagining.

[PFM18]

Where exactly? You mean when Goku and Vegeta use Super Saiyan Blue for the first time? I don’t understand how you reach the conclusion some made-up multiplier or the other makes Goku as strong as X character in a determined form.

What? I have no idea what you are talking about. what made-up multiplier? I was just using an official multiplier? and said nothing about Super Saiyan Blue?

I am not sure what you are confused about what I said so I will just clarify what I said.

Ok so it was stated by the narrator, the episode title, and Beerus that Goku had surpassed Super Saiyan God in his Super Saiyan form.(people like to argue Base Goku>SSG Goku too but that is less substantiated) so then since:
SSJ Goku = Base Goku*50
it follows that:
Base Goku = SSJGoku/50

And since Super Saiyan God was implied to be significantly stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto(Goku said Fusion wouldnt be enough against a Suppressed Beerus, then when he attained SSG he said "I ddin't think a power like this could even exist" and since Vegetto could obviously go SSJ3 Goku impled SSG>SSJ3 Vegetto) Now, if we let Base Vegetto be a 1 then it follows that by the multipliers:
Base Vegetto:1
SSJ3 Vegetto: 400
if we assume SSG Goku is twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto(which may be conservative) then it follows that:
SSG Goku:800
Now, since all 3 sources I mentioned explicitly state that SSJ Goku surpassed SSG Goku, we can estimate he surpassed it by 20%. Then it follows that:
SSJ Goku:960
Base Goku: 19.2

Therefore, Base Goku immediately after the BoG saga is atleast 19.2x stronger than Base Vegetto.

So given by the material that we have been given we can reasonably conclude that Base Goku is 19x stronger than Base Vegetto. Now, I used the numbers 2x and 20% respectively, but if you wanted to lowball it you could use 50% and 10% and you could conclude Goku is 13x stronger than Base Vegetto.

Now if you are one of those people that are under the impression that Base Goku(ToP) > SSG Goku(BoG)then the respective numbers would be 950x and 650x stronger than Base Vegetto.(Me personally I don't believe that but still)

So I mean I guess I just explained this basically before. the basic concept that Base = SSJ/50(which for some reason you thought was a made up multiplier) and SSJ>SSG during BoG.

The 50-fold figure comes from a book released almost 10 years ago (one of Super Exciting Guides) that mostly reproduced what the manga already had provided us. By extension, the powerlevel of a Super Saiyan was presumed to be 50-fold when Goku fought Freeza according to Daizenshuu numbers, which were just made-up in the first place. We don’t have to take them literally and make further extrapolations as if they follow some undoubted rule.

By the way, there is nothing concrete on Episode 14, be a line or an episode title, that implies Super Saiyan Goku is significantly stronger than Super Saiyan God. Up until the end, they were referring to the power of SSG when comparing Goku with Beerus. Unless you think that last-ditch effort of Goku in his normal form is any evidence to go by, I don’t know where you got that from.. Actually, the bit about surpassing SSG is first assumed when Goku used Super Saiyan Blue for the first time.

Also, Goku only said that fusing with Vegeta wouldn’t be enough to defeat Beerus and that SSG’s power was beyond imagination. This doesn’t mean he is saying SSG is stronger than some hypothetical SS3 Vegetto, since we know jack of what Goku was imagining.

The 50 fold figure regardless of the fact that it came out "almost 10 years ago"(which in the grand scheme of things really isn't that long at all.) These are still official multipliers that make sense within the series. 20x Kaioken wasn't enough against Freeza but SSJ was so naturally it makes sense that this official multiplier is accurate.

The narrator, Beerus AND the episode title make it abundantly clear that Goku as a Super Saiyan surpassed SSG. The title is something along the lines of "Surpass a Super Saiyan God" the narrator states that he has surpassed a Super Saiyan God, and Beerus confirms it. They were referring to his normal super saiyan form because that was the form he was using at the time during that entire episode. The bit about surpassing SSG is made extremely clear to the audience well before Super Saiyan Blue makes an appearance.

Goku said that Fusion wouldn't be enough against this suppressed Beerus. Goku knows that fusion wouldn't be enough and he could easily go SSJ3 as part of Vegetto. and then Beerus uses more power and he fights evenly with him as a Super Saiyan God.

The series makes it extremely clear if you want to deny it for some reason that is your own choice.

[blain218]

Where exactly? You mean when Goku and Vegeta use Super Saiyan Blue for the first time? I don’t understand how you reach the conclusion some made-up multiplier or the other makes Goku as strong as X character in a determined form.

What? I have no idea what you are talking about. what made-up multiplier? I was just using an official multiplier? and said nothing about Super Saiyan Blue?

I am not sure what you are confused about what I said so I will just clarify what I said.

Ok so it was stated by the narrator, the episode title, and Beerus that Goku had surpassed Super Saiyan God in his Super Saiyan form.(people like to argue Base Goku>SSG Goku too but that is less substantiated) so then since:
SSJ Goku = Base Goku*50
it follows that:
Base Goku = SSJGoku/50

And since Super Saiyan God was implied to be significantly stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto(Goku said Fusion wouldnt be enough against a Suppressed Beerus, then when he attained SSG he said "I ddin't think a power like this could even exist" and since Vegetto could obviously go SSJ3 Goku impled SSG>SSJ3 Vegetto) Now, if we let Base Vegetto be a 1 then it follows that by the multipliers:
Base Vegetto:1
SSJ3 Vegetto: 400
if we assume SSG Goku is twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto(which may be conservative) then it follows that:
SSG Goku:800
Now, since all 3 sources I mentioned explicitly state that SSJ Goku surpassed SSG Goku, we can estimate he surpassed it by 20%. Then it follows that:
SSJ Goku:960
Base Goku: 19.2

Therefore, Base Goku immediately after the BoG saga is atleast 19.2x stronger than Base Vegetto.

So given by the material that we have been given we can reasonably conclude that Base Goku is 19x stronger than Base Vegetto. Now, I used the numbers 2x and 20% respectively, but if you wanted to lowball it you could use 50% and 10% and you could conclude Goku is 13x stronger than Base Vegetto.

Now if you are one of those people that are under the impression that Base Goku(ToP) > SSG Goku(BoG)then the respective numbers would be 950x and 650x stronger than Base Vegetto.(Me personally I don't believe that but still)

So I mean I guess I just explained this basically before. the basic concept that Base = SSJ/50(which for some reason you thought was a made up multiplier) and SSJ>SSG during BoG.

The 50-fold figure comes from a book released almost 10 years ago (one of Super Exciting Guides) that mostly reproduced what the manga already had provided us. By extension, the powerlevel of a Super Saiyan was presumed to be 50-fold when Goku fought Freeza according to Daizenshuu numbers, which were just made-up in the first place. We don’t have to take them literally and make further extrapolations as if they follow some undoubted rule.

By the way, there is nothing concrete on Episode 14, be a line or an episode title, that implies Super Saiyan Goku is significantly stronger than Super Saiyan God. Up until the end, they were referring to the power of SSG when comparing Goku with Beerus. Unless you think that last-ditch effort of Goku in his normal form is any evidence to go by, I don’t know where you got that from.. Actually, the bit about surpassing SSG is first assumed when Goku used Super Saiyan Blue for the first time.

Also, Goku only said that fusing with Vegeta wouldn’t be enough to defeat Beerus and that SSG’s power was beyond imagination. This doesn’t mean he is saying SSG is stronger than some hypothetical SS3 Vegetto, since we know jack of what Goku was imagining.

It doesn't matter how old a source is, its still an official source. And they all say SSJ is a 50x boost whether you like it of not.

Goku is never wrong when estimating people's power and he is one half of Vegito, so he knows full well what SSJ3 Vegito is capable of. And since even Goku says that SSJ3 Vegtio is still weaker than suppressed Beerus then its a fact.