The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:34 am

Saiga wrote:Okay, here are some I'm wondering about:

Boo arc Yamhan (Tenshinhan lowered to Yamcha's level) vs Kuririn (Boo arc, or peak if you think he weakened from not training).

Boo arc Yamhan (Yamcha raised to Tenshinhan's level) vs Kuririn (same as above).

Or, strongest opponent both sets of Yamhan can beat. Keep in mind he'd absolutely be weaker than base Gotenks.

Raditz vs 2 Saibaimen, no explosions.

Minus Bardock and Raditz vs Nappa.

Pure Evil Boo vs Good Boo and any one of Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan.
Tiencha one-shots in both cases. While Krillin is of course a good deal stronger than those two, I think Buu arc Tenshinhan might be in distant rivaling range, and I definitely don't think his lead is anywhere near huge enough that a fusion wouldn't be able to beat him. That boost is huge. SS Trunks after merging with Goten went from a good deal weaker than pre-Majin SS Vegeta (who was noticeably weaker than post-Majin SS Vegeta, who was half of post-Majin SS2 Vegeta, who was a lot weaker than tons-of-fun) to so much stronger than Fat Buu that Goku was absolutely certain that he wouldn't lose- and bet the Earth on it. If you include the movies, the fusion boost was also enough to make SS Goku much stronger than a guy who was stronger than SS3 Goku.

I'm pretty generous with the humans due to the Android arc implications, so I'll say Tiencha can beat Kaio-ken x10 Namek Goku.

I'll call this one a 50/50. On the one hand, I think that, normally, two 1,200s vs a 1,500 would result in victory for the team. On the other, Nappa went out of his way to point out that the Cultivars only rival Raditz in pure battle power. Raditz should be more durable than them thanks to both his physiology and his armor, and is somewhat crafty. He might figure out a way to win.

Nappa. Bardock was said to not be strong enough to become a mid-class like Nappa. Unless Nappa is the absolute lowest level you can be to still be considered a mid-class (or close to it), I don't think the addition of Raditz would help Bardock overwhelm his stronger opponent. Especially since Nappa is in all likelihood more skilled than Bardock is (though, with the power gap I have between them, I don't think he'd need to be skilled at all to win).

Evil Buu defeated Good Buu really easily. I don't think the addition of a single SS2 is going to do anything, since Good Buu couldn't even land a single hit alone, and generally adding teammates only works if at least one person rivals the guy you're fighting. Or if you have a special technique/plan. You can throw all the other SS2s in there and the same thing happens. They get one-shotted. Especially if you think Good Buu and Mr. Buu are equally strong, since that makes Pure Evil Buu stronger than SS3 Goku.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:28 pm

Saiga wrote:Okay, here are some I'm wondering about:

Boo arc Yamhan (Tenshinhan lowered to Yamcha's level) vs Kuririn (Boo arc, or peak if you think he weakened from not training).

Boo arc Yamhan (Yamcha raised to Tenshinhan's level) vs Kuririn (same as above).

Or, strongest opponent both sets of Yamhan can beat. Keep in mind he'd absolutely be weaker than base Gotenks.

Raditz vs 2 Saibaimen, no explosions.

Minus Bardock and Raditz vs Nappa.

Pure Evil Boo vs Good Boo and any one of Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan.
- Yamhan one shots
- Yamhan one shots
- Raditz. But it goes right down to the wire.
- Raditz and Nappa stomp. Hell, Nappa stomps on his own
- Pure Evil Boo stomps.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:57 pm


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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Saiga » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:13 pm

No, Bardock and Raditz were the team, not Nappa and Raditz.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:15 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Agree or disagree?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyemYQlbLvo
I agree.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Darkron2151 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:54 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Agree or disagree?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyemYQlbLvo
I disagree. Freeza would have to be in his Final Form in order to defeat Slug IMO. However, that doesn't mean he has to use Full Power. 5-10% or so should be more than enough IMO.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:13 pm

Darkron2151 wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Agree or disagree?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyemYQlbLvo
I disagree. Freeza would have to be in his Final Form in order to defeat Slug IMO. However, that doesn't mean he has to use Full Power. 5-10% or so should be more than enough IMO.
But all it took for Lord Slug to get killed was a one handed Spirit Bomb. The same type of Spirit Bomb that Saiyan arc Vegeta was able to tank. Hell, Freeza in his first form would be able to one-shot Lord Slug.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:19 pm

SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) vs. Kid Buu

For the sake of argument, no "oh Gotenks will mess around and get absorbed", Gotenks takes it 100% seriously, no time limit on fusion. Buu can't use candy beam or absorb.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:21 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Darkron2151 wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Agree or disagree?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyemYQlbLvo
I disagree. Freeza would have to be in his Final Form in order to defeat Slug IMO. However, that doesn't mean he has to use Full Power. 5-10% or so should be more than enough IMO.
But all it took for Lord Slug to get killed was a one handed Spirit Bomb. The same type of Spirit Bomb that Saiyan arc Vegeta was able to tank. Hell, Freeza in his first form would be able to one-shot Lord Slug.
It took a Kaioken x100 to beat Lord Slug

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:23 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:But all it took for Lord Slug to get killed was a one handed Spirit Bomb. The same type of Spirit Bomb that Saiyan arc Vegeta was able to tank. Hell, Freeza in his first form would be able to one-shot Lord Slug.
Kaio said Lord Slug was stronger than Freeza.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:45 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:But all it took for Lord Slug to get killed was a one handed Spirit Bomb. The same type of Spirit Bomb that Saiyan arc Vegeta was able to tank. Hell, Freeza in his first form would be able to one-shot Lord Slug.
Kaio said Lord Slug was stronger than Freeza.
So why couldn't Lord Slug withstand a one handed Spirit Bomb?

How come Vegeta from the Saiyan arc was able to?

How come Freeza was able to withstand a Spirit Bomb hundreds of time stronger than the one that it took to kill Lord Slug but King Kai says in the movie that Lord Slug is stronger than Freeza?

Because movie powers levels are bullshit.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:50 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:But all it took for Lord Slug to get killed was a one handed Spirit Bomb. The same type of Spirit Bomb that Saiyan arc Vegeta was able to tank. Hell, Freeza in his first form would be able to one-shot Lord Slug.
Kaio said Lord Slug was stronger than Freeza.
So why couldn't Lord Slug withstand a one handed Spirit Bomb?

How come Vegeta from the Saiyan arc was able to?

How come Freeza was able to withstand a Spirit Bomb hundreds of time stronger than the one that it took to kill Lord Slug but King Kai says in the movie that Lord Slug is stronger than Freeza?
Because not all "one-handed Spirit Bombs" are created equal. How did Freeza withstand a two-handed Spirit Bomb while Pure Buu wasn't able to?

It's never stated that the Spirit Bomb used on Freeza was hundreds of times stronger than the one used on Slug. The only comparison we get between Freeza and Slug is Kaio outright saying Slug is stronger.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:32 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) vs. Kid Buu

For the sake of argument, no "oh Gotenks will mess around and get absorbed", Gotenks takes it 100% seriously, no time limit on fusion. Buu can't use candy beam or absorb.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kaboom » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:39 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:SSJ 3 Gogeta (manga) vs. Ultimate Gohan?
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:ok then... I'll give Gogeta harder opponent.. SSJ 3 Gogeta (manga) vs. Gohan-Buu
Gogeta only needs Super Saiyan 1 to spank Gohan. I consider him roughly on-par with Gotenks-absorbed or Gohan-absorbed Boo.

That said, Gogeta similarly only needs Super Saiyan 2 to secure a win against Gohan-Boo. He could possibly already do it with just SS1, but it'd be a struggle and the odds probably aren't in his favor.
Saiga wrote:Boo arc Yamhan (Tenshinhan lowered to Yamcha's level) vs Kuririn (Boo arc, or peak if you think he weakened from not training).
Boo arc Yamhan (Yamcha raised to Tenshinhan's level) vs Kuririn (same as above).
Or, strongest opponent both sets of Yamhan can beat. Keep in mind he'd absolutely be weaker than base Gotenks.
Raditz vs 2 Saibaimen, no explosions.
Minus Bardock and Raditz vs Nappa.
Pure Evil Boo vs Good Boo and any one of Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan.
— These first two 'Yamhan Vs Kuririn' matches have the same outcome: Yamhan wins pretty easily. While both Yamcha and Tenshinhan are each a good chunk weaker than Kuririn, I'd bet the boost from Fusion is more than potent enough to decisively switch things around for Yamhan.
—I'd wager the strongest foe that Yamhan could beat (through raw strength, setting aside the Kikoho) is Freeza in one of his lower forms. Probably 2nd, maybe 3rd.
— Depends on what strategy the Saibaimen use, if any. I'll give it to Raditz at least 2 out of 3 times, because of his decent power and intelligence advantage.
— I figure Minus-Bardock for being around 4,500 or so (basically chopping his TV special power in half), the same number I use for Nappa. So with them being equal in power and having Raditz as backup, the father-and-son duo most likely overcome Nappa's heightened durability and win. If it's Nappa in his prime, when I think he was stronger (probably around 6,000), then things are turned around.
— If Pure Evil Boo is "only" most of Fat Boo's power, then SS2 Goku or Vegeta alone could probably take him down. Not Gohan though. But if he's something more, like most of Evil Boo's power or something roundabout like that, then this is just as hopeless as the SS2s trying to gang up on Fat Boo.
TheGmGoken wrote:Agree or disagree?
<Freeza Vs Lord Slug video -- Freeza wins with his 3rd Form>
In my book, Slug's power capped out somewhere within the range of Freeza's 2nd form. So... yeah, 3rd-form Freeza could probably take him down.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) vs. Kid Buu
Gotenks needs to use Super Saiyan 2 after his Room of Spirit and Time session to take down Pure Boo. He's several times stronger than Goku in equal forms, but Super Saiyan 3 is a very large boost over SS2, and in my eyes Gotenks never quite closed that gap at just SS1.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SuperSaiyan2 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:58 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) vs. Kid Buu

For the sake of argument, no "oh Gotenks will mess around and get absorbed", Gotenks takes it 100% seriously, no time limit on fusion. Buu can't use candy beam or absorb.
SSJ Gotenks. He's strong enough to get the job done while being serious, similar to how his post-RoSaT self was dealing with Evil Boo.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:48 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) vs. Kid Buu

For the sake of argument, no "oh Gotenks will mess around and get absorbed", Gotenks takes it 100% seriously, no time limit on fusion. Buu can't use candy beam or absorb.
Kid Buu wins. Gotenks would need at least SSJ2 to put Kid Buu down for the count.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZazamPow » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:35 pm

The Krillin vs Tien debate will never end, but I'm curious exactly how far behind do you think Yamcha is trailing them? Is he right behind, or just completely pathetic?
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:37 pm

How will it never end? It's stated by the author and in the actual manga.
I'm curious exactly how far behind do you think Yamcha is trailing them? Is he right behind, or just completely pathetic?
In my books:

Yamcha: 80,000
Tenshinhan: 900,000
Kuririn: 2,300,000

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:37 pm

ZazamPow wrote:The Krillin vs Tenshinhan debate will never end, but I'm curious exactly how far behind do you think Yamcha is trailing them? Is he right behind, or just completely pathetic?
For totally arbitrary reasons based on nothing else, really, I give them the same gaps they have in the Saiyan Arc, with Krillin's and Tenshinhan's switched.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kaboom » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:52 pm

ZazamPow wrote:The Krillin vs Tenshinhan debate will never end, but I'm curious exactly how far behind do you think Yamcha is trailing them? Is he right behind, or just completely pathetic?
There's no actual "debate" at all, really. Just a lot of denial leading to a lot of noise.

Anyway, to put it in numbers... While Kuririn capped out somewhere moderately over 100,000, and Tenshinhan steadily pushed himself as close to that as he could get, I figure Yamcha probably capped out at around 50,000 at best. Most of that being from the time spent at Kaio's.
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