Goku became completely useless after beating Freeza

[mystic trunks]

Did anyone else stop to ponder this? Yeah he manages to beat Freeza, but he doesn't even kill him(Which is almost useless in and of itself).He leaves his family, not to mention the entire planet at risk. During the android saga, he is out of commission to the point that he doesn't even lay eyes on 17 and 18 before they are absorbed by Cell. He finally catches a quick glimpe of imperfect cell just to disappear. He trains for almost a year, fights Cell, is no match for him and gets blown to Hell. The planet is saved by his 11 year old son. And he refuses to come back and see them(absentee father much? lol) Fast forward to the Buu saga. He gets knocked out cold by vegeta, which leads to Vegeta's death and his son being put in a coma.(though he even admits he could have beaten buu at this point). His son soon becomes much stronger than him(again) and his youngest son and his little 8 year old buddy fuse and become stronger than him as well. And of course in the final fight Goku quickly gasses out and so vegeta has to step in and almost gets killed again. He doesn't even manage to catch his breath(who is he Veku?) without the magical power of the Dragonballs. Then he leaves his family again for an extended period of time.

[smiley]

What a bunch of crap. First, you've carefully side-stepped the fact that while Goku did get "blown to Hell" in the Cell saga, it was in the process of saving the earth and its inhabitants. Everyone would've died if not for him. Buu saga, Gotenks would never have been formed, or reached Super Saiyan 3 if not for Goku and his example. Vegetto wouldn't have been formed either, so Gohan Buu would have destroyed everything. Finally, it was Goku's genki dama that ultimately destroyed Buu.

[Rostir]

Fighting the enemy one on one is never the only influence on the storyline in Dragon Ball Z.

[mystic trunks]

What a bunch of crap. First, you've carefully side-stepped the fact that while Goku did get "blown to Hell" in the Cell saga, it was in the process of saving the earth and its inhabitants. Everyone would've died if not for him. Buu saga, Gotenks would never have been formed, or reached Super Saiyan 3 if not for Goku and his example. Vegetto wouldn't have been formed either, so Gohan Buu would have destroyed everything. Finally, it was Goku's genki dama that ultimately destroyed Buu.

Who knows how all of that would have turned out? The events could have been skewed in many directions similar to the future trunks timelines. That's all speculation. I'm just stating the facts.

[B]

1) Goku is oh so sorry he only had two minutes to escape an exploding planet, and assumed said explosion would kill Freeza. Oh, and the fact his body was sliced in half. We were led to believe Freeza was dead and weren't told he was alive until everything was said and done. It's petty obvious Freeza's survival was used to show off Trunks's strength.
2) Goku is also oh so sorry for having a life-threatening illness. Do I even have to elaborate on that?
3) I'll give you the Buu factoid that he wasn't going all-out against Buu. The rest doesn't really explain Goku being "useless." He was sideshotted, and then unavailable.
4) You are so missing the point of Dragon Ball, a children's comic book, if Goku being an absentee father is what you took away from the ending.

[Kid Buu]

Well, his training Gohan in the ROSAT is what led Gohan to become the strongest hero.

He also saved everyones life when he teleported Cell away.

He also motivated Gohan to fight Cell back after Cell got a near death power up.

But then again, if it were not for Goku, the Androids/Cell would have never existed anyway.

[CODii]

So if every single problem isn't fixed by Goku throwing punches, the he is completely useless?

[Kroni_Hunter]

Dragonball Z followed a formulaic pattern for awhile. A threat appears, Goku is unable to fight, threat nearly kills everyone until Goku shows up at the last second and wins...Power level proportions be damned.

This finally changed during the Cell Games, where Goku throws a curve ball and lets Gohan be the hero. And what did we get after that? The Buu Saga.

I know the mold was repetitive, but it worked, and it's one reason why the Buu Saga didn't work. When people watch Goku, they are putting themselves in his perspective. In the beginning he does a lot of impressive stuff which is going to make the viewers/readers happy. Then towards the end, he lets others do the impressive stuff, and actually starts to degenerate as a character. His absenteeism becomes more prominent, he gets less power ups that become less and less effective against new villains, and he doesn't even try anymore really. It's all kind of a turn off.

[DBZ Mick]

Dragonball Z followed a formulaic pattern for awhile. A threat appears, Goku is unable to fight, threat nearly kills everyone until Goku shows up at the last second and wins...Power level proportions be damned.

Really? He got killed during the fight with Raditz, didn't beat Nappa in the end, let Vegeta go, didn't kill Freeza ie.

[CatouttaHell]

At the Cell Games Goku would still break anybody who isn't Cell or Gohan over his knee. Being the third most powerful out of nine people isn't bad at all. In the Boo Arc he's the strongest unfused character after Pure Boo and becomes the hero once again after defeating him. Yeah, very useless.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Aside from the obvious and irrelevant absentee father issue, I really found Goku's role in the Buu arc refreshing. He was there, but rarely on the front lines. The fact is that up to that point, Goku really did destroy absolutely everyone, so finding ways to keep him out of the picture so that the rest of the cast can do something is a natural change. The problem keeps coming back that he's the main character, and thus he's necessary to bring some closure to the story, which rendered the Buu arc a repeat of the Cell arc (Sans Gohan's killing him); several characters make their stands, fail, and he has to step in.

Liking the Buu arc is really a full-time fan job; it's the poorest written part of the series, yet it has so many redeeming moments that you aren't sure how you'd rewrite it

[DBZ Mick]

IMO I found the Cell/Artifical Human stuff to have more issues than the Boo arc.

[Jackal puFF]

You know who was completely useless after Freeza? Vegeta, not Goku..Vegeta.

[goldsaint13]

What a bunch of crap. First, you've carefully side-stepped the fact that while Goku did get "blown to Hell" in the Cell saga, it was in the process of saving the earth and its inhabitants. Everyone would've died if not for him. Buu saga, Gotenks would never have been formed, or reached Super Saiyan 3 if not for Goku and his example. Vegetto wouldn't have been formed either, so Gohan Buu would have destroyed everything. Finally, it was Goku's genki dama that ultimately destroyed Buu.

Goku's role is that of a guidance or master of sorts... He's the more experienced... He has weaker potential than others but without his guidance, they couldn't draw it out in the first place...

Goku is not the strongest existent but the strongest existent exist thanks to him...

4) You are so missing the point of Dragon Ball, a children's comic book, if Goku being an absentee father is what you took away from the ending.

Actually it was Toriyama plan since the Cell saga...

He didn't left Goku dead and neither he let him remain Vegetto forever...

To make Goku's fanboys happy, the Vegetto solution was the best... We would have had the WTF strongest possible character, made up by the so long rivals Goku and Vegeta and the only way Goku could have been the strongest again...
It's a shame for Goku's fanboys that Vegetto defused, because Goku was the strongest again like he was in Freezer's saga but returning separated from Vegeta he dropped back to his position after Gohan and Gotenks...
Vegetto would have been the best compromise...

Also, if in GT it would have been Vegetto instead of Goku, turning him to a child would have been possible as well and that level of power (base = Majin Buu) would have been perfectly correct without flaws...

In the Boo Arc he's the strongest unfused character after Pure Boo and becomes the hero once again after defeating him. Yeah, very useless.

The strongest unfused AND self-trained... Because without this specification he falls as much below Gohan as he did in Cell's saga... At least...

And Kid Buu being better than SSJ3 Goku kis interesting speculation that may have some hints, but no real proof...

The fact is that up to that point, Goku really did destroy absolutely everyone, so finding ways to keep him out of the picture so that the rest of the cast can do something is a natural change.

This is until Fusion saga... Then he doesn't stay on the front-line because he can't since he would be badly beaten by Buu's continuous fusions with himself first and with the Z-Fighters then...
The author defused Buu to let Goku have a chance again...

The problem keeps coming back that he's the main character, and thus he's necessary to bring some closure to the story, which rendered the Buu arc a repeat of the Cell arc (Sans Gohan's killing him); several characters make their stands, fail, and he has to step in.

The author actually made Gohan the hero... While I don't know why he has been unable to keep it until the end...

[Gaffer Tape]

You know who was completely useless after Freeza? Vegeta, not Goku..Vegeta.

Haha, you beat me to it. Even if Goku had stayed in bed groaning over his heart disease for the entire rest of the series, he still would have been useful than post-Freeza Vegeta because at least Goku wouldn't be actively helping the villains.

[goldsaint13]

Haha, you beat me to it. Even if Goku had stayed in bed groaning over his heart disease for the entire rest of the series, he still would have been useful than post-Freeza Vegeta because at least Goku wouldn't be actively helping the villains.

Vegeta helped more or less all of them...

1. He hindered Trunks trying to stop Gero before he could activate the Androids.
2. He allowed Cell to reach the Perfect form.
3. He permitted Babidi to turn him into a Majin so that the damage he caused to Goku went as energy to the Majin Buu's sphere.
4. He broke the Potaras and refused to use Fusion so that they could have defeated Buu in seconds.


I don't remember anything else...

[mystic trunks]

Aside from Vegeta killing Nappa, Zarbon, Dodoria, Burta, Jeice, Guldo, and Recoome, thus protecting(inadvertantely) Gohan, Krillin and Bulma, Healing Goku and buying him time to recuperate by fighting Freeza, he was indeed pretty useless. However he did at least defeat more people in DBZ than Goku did.

[Fox666]

It's quite funny that Goku didn't kill anybody in the Namek saga. Even Freeza was killed by Trunks in the end.

[Michsi]

However he did at least defeat more people in DBZ than Goku did.

Yet that still didn't make him more usefull in the long run. I really can't see how anbody could claim that Goku became useless after the Freeza Saga. Not to mention that in the original time line, it was him that defeated both Freeza and Cold.
He was the one to defeat majin Buu in the end. That he had a lot of help doing it, doesn't mean a thing. He had help defeating Freeza too. He was still the one to defeat him. The one who had the power and the technique. So how is he useless?

[mystic trunks]

However he did at least defeat more people in DBZ than Goku did.

Yet that still didn't make him more usefull in the long run. I really can't see how anbody could claim that Goku became useless after the Freeza Saga. Not to mention that in the original time line, it was him that defeated both Freeza and Cold.
He was the one to defeat majin Buu in the end. That he had a lot of help doing it, doesn't mean a thing. He had help defeating Freeza too. He was still the one to defeat him. The one who had the power and the technique. So how is he useless?

He did defeat Buu, but only after he pussy-footed around and let evreyone get killed, not to mention lead to earth, and countless other planets/lives beyong obliterated. Also, the only reason he was the one to defeat Buu, albeit only by the power of the dragonballs, was because he ended up being too arrogant to let Gohan (or Gotenks) come and easily mop the floor with kid buu(thus also putting Vegeta and the world of the Kais at risk)