Episode #0274 (09 October 2011)

[ThunderPX]

I can't believe you remembered Cargo but not Dende.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

I can't believe you remembered Cargo but not Dende.

Wow, you're right. I was thinking Cargo, Vegeta and Kuririn myself, completely glossing over the other kid, poor guy.

[Zestanor]

I had a feeling GT was next. But you should call it the "GT Review of Mediocrity."

[JulieYBM]

Well, I'd rather they at least made a serious effort rather than playing it up as that sort of joke.

[Kaboom]

Very nice podcast, and it's certainly a little bittersweet to see the MRoA come to a close. I somehow managed to save up my pennies and collect the entire manga through the VizBig editions, so I was always able to follow along. As for what's next...




My body is ready.

I'm right now having crazy daydreams about managing to get up there to visit you guys one weekend soon and actually getting to partake in a "GT Review of Awesomeness"...



Speaking of GT, being re-exposed to the revised Kanzenban ending and how it emphasized Oob's importance... really gotta make sure I live up to that with GTR.

Anyway, to offer my "expert opinion" on the couple of "issues" brought up about the final volume:

1) Vegetto being split apart back into Goku and Vegeta could be his own fault. By protecting himself with a force field, he seemed to have somehow "interrupted" or otherwise screwed up the process by which Boo normally absorbs people. So instead, he's only "partially digested" which results in the Potara Fusion being undone. Doesn't really explain HOW, but... Like the old saying goes, "it's magic. I don't have to explain jack." I guess Boo's magic is better than Kaioshin magic (But not better than Metamoran magic, apparently!).

2) The mechanics of Boo's absorptions make a little more sense if you compare them to Kami and Piccolo. Both were originally a single conflicted being, who split off his evil side. That evil side took physical form and caused trouble. But when the evil side was rebirthed later, it was no longer merely JUST a mass of evil in physical form. Somehow throughout the process, it gained its own soul, and was now its own "complete" being.

Such was the case with Piccolo Junior, and something similar seemed to have happen in all the Boo-absorbing-Boo shenanigans which produced similar results. The gray Boo is nothing more than manifested evil, without actual complete "Boo-ness." The Pure Boo at the end is actually a complete being with his own soul. Again, it doesn't really explain HOW it happened, but I suppose that might make it at least easier to swallow.

3) I don't really feel the added final line from Vegeta in the Kanzenban really hurt his character development any. Just because Vegeta admitted that Goku's better than him, which undeniably IS a massive piece of character growth for him, it's not necessarily a final closure. Vegeta's rivalry with Goku is now a more friendly one, rather than obsessive or even bloodthirsty like it used to be. I mean, just look at their interaction in the 2008 Jump special. They're competing over not only fighting, but stuff like who's better dressed, eating, who's kid is better, and so forth...

[violadude]

EEP! I was so happy the moment "Dan Dan" came on! Not that I absolutely love GT, but that certainly is the obvious next step and I was excited for it.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

My body is ready.

Shiz just got real.

[Brodes_Vegetto]

Couldn't ask for a better podcast conclusion! & now GT...... WOOOOOOO!! Can't wait!!

[Super Vejito]

I also want to mention real quick that the new Final Bout video you put up on YouTube is apparently blocked by ABGroup for my country (the Netherlands, Europe). =[ I don't know if there's anything you can do about that, but I thought you should know.

For the like two people on the internet with the same problem (being non-American): the FaceBook version works just fine. Can't unsee the silhouette now. =X

On to the podcast: You guys wondered if Mr. Buu was in the 2008 Jump Festa special, he definitely was. I mostly agreed with your assessment of the volume; Toriyama’s art style is as great as ever, but the logic is really lacking in a few parts (Vejito splitting up randomly, all the Buu forms). The ending is diminished somewhat by GT’s existence and the continuation of Uub as a character, but I guess it's not that bad. The “new” ending doesn’t change much for me, I liked the touch of having Uub on the cloud and Vegeta's line doesn't bother me in the sense that I just think he's taking the rivalry to a friendlier level. I like my endings to be a little more definitive though and both Cell's and GT's ending do a better job at that.

With the Buu arc overall I feel like it’s detached from what directly precedes it and the anime would have been justified in making another distinction, the same way they made one between DB and DBZ. It did have its (funny!) moments and gave us fusion, more on the god hierarchy and Super Saiyan 3, which for me personally never stopped looking weird. The SSJ3 form also contributes to what I kind of perceive as an issue: for most of the arc Goku is by far the strongest Z-fighter and he seems more ahead than he ever was. He’s even capable of taking out the main villain rather early in the arc, when has this ever happened? I liked it better in, for example, the Cell arc, where we had four Super Saiyans getting stronger and stronger and even Piccolo getting a drastic powerup. This all to face a villain even Goku ultimately couldn’t really beat, but he’s the big hero of that arc despite being surpassed by Gohan at that point. I acknowledge that Goku has to be the main character if the series is to continue, but him being that powerful does take a lot of tension out. It might have worked if the new generation had indeed been left to finish the job and this was set up in the sense that both SSJ3 Gotenks and Gohan after his random powerup suddenly became quite capable. However, it was ultimately left to Goku once more and the entire arc is rather messy when it comes to swings in power. The dynamics of the final Majin Buu fight were outright bizarre, as Goku couldn’t keep up his strongest form, Vegeta was pretty much useless and they ended up beating him in a rather movie-esque way. Don’t get me wrong, I think that Genki Dama was epic, but this is also something that contributes to the Buu arc overall being a little jarring to me.

I got all quiz questions right and even caught the oversight on poor Dende’s demise, yay. :3 I do think that the fanbase in general has taken their knowledge to pretty much autistic levels and I’m no exception. Even taking into account that Jeff read the manga just once over the course of four yours though, I think he could/should have gotten at least a few questions right if he tried harder. I imagine the GT quiz will be much more difficult, since GT actually makes no sense at all. :p

Finally, much respect to being dedicated enough to this segment to see it all the way through. It’s a nice archive to look back on and I personally haven’t listened to all of them (yet), so I still have something to go back to. The podcast is great with or without it, but it definitely marks the end of an era as so many people have already commented and it’s nice that there is a replacement for continuity. Can’t wait for the monthly GT-induced rage, perhaps it should be called the GT Review of Inconsistency.

[Shiyonasan]

I've been listening to the podcast since summer 2007, so I didn't listen to the Manga Review of Awesomeness in order. (Though I have listened to every single podcast episode...)

Having come from nearly the beginning though, I have to say that this is definitely a bittersweet ending for me. Although I don't own the majority of the manga, it was fun listening to you guys "monthly" discussing the manga volume by volume. Now, perhaps if I can get the money to buy the manga now...

Anyway, great podcast! I look forward the the GT Review of Awesomeness! Hopefully you guys can stay awake this time.

[Flamzeron]

I think that what the Elder Kai said about the dragon balls was just his personal opinion. He probably sees them as something bad in general. That's just my opinion, though, and I haven't gotten to that part in the manga yet.

[Super Vejito]

It makes him a bit of a hypocrite since he uses magic and gave Goku his life. Apparently bending the rules of nature is only okay if it suits him? :p

I do wish that somewhere in the canon they had touched upon repercussions of (over)using the Dragon Balls. They are a forever applicable plot device to remedy situations other series constantly have to work around (death, destruction etc.) in order to keep going, but it would reflect well on the author if he introduced some sort of downside to using them. Instead, GT did it and we all know how that went.

[AgitoZ]

Well, the day I dreaded and anticipated has come and gone. The MRoA was definitely one of my favorite recurring segments of the podcast. Jeff's fresh perspective on the series was definitely a big factor in it, and although he may have forgotten a couple things along the way (which I don't blame him at all), he still made this last time very enjoyable.

But, listening to this episode reinforced why I think I really enjoyed this segment. Not only was it nice to just hear your opinions on the series every month, but hearing you all laughing and sharing your enjoyment of the series really brought home the point of the segment and DB as whole. It's all about friendship, cheesy I know. It was a simple segment that gave spotlight to the magic of DB and how it can bring people together and make them have a good time. It surrounds us, penetrates us, it binds us...

Now that I've tried to make some big analogy(?), I've officially started to ramble. In short, thanks to Mike, Meri, Julian, Jeff, and anyone else who has been on the segment for entertaining us every month.

R.I.P. Manga Review of Awesomeness:
2007-2011
Jesus...HAS IT REALLY BEEN FOUR YEARS?!

P.S. I guess I should also comment on the Final Bout video EX posted. Although short I really enjoyed it. It was well produced and enlightening and I look forward to more quality and fun DB video content. Cause God knows we need it...

[Sshadow5001]

I havent listened to the podcast in a good while... like 2 years... but hearing that the review of awesomeness is over I plan to go back and download all the review episodes.

[mikezilla2]

being re-exposed to the revised Kanzenban ending ?

err what

[tinlunlau]

Maybe we can use the Dragon Balls to revive the manga review of awesomeness in a few years down the road! Then call it "the manga re-review of awesomeness". And have some kids review it in their perspective!

[Phred]

I don't think you can get a good handle on Vegito's character based on what you see of him.
Considering his plan from the beginning was to get himself absorbed by Buu, the whole cocky persona he puts on may have very well been an act.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I don't think you can get a good handle on Vegito's character based on what you see of him.
Considering his plan from the beginning was to get himself absorbed by Buu, the whole cocky persona he puts on may have very well been an act.

I think it's strongly suggested that it was. The old Kaioshin was getting frustrated at Vegetto for toying around with Boo and not finishing him off quickly, only to be relieved when Vegetto appeared in Boo's body un-absorbed. I think, at that time, Vegetto would be so cocky as to just toy around with Boo for the hell of it, because Goku and Vegeta knew how dangerous the situation was. With Gotenks, it was different because he was a product of two stupid little kids who want to look cool.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I don't think you can get a good handle on Vegito's character based on what you see of him.
Considering his plan from the beginning was to get himself absorbed by Buu, the whole cocky persona he puts on may have very well been an act.

I think it's strongly suggested that it was. The old Kaioshin was getting frustrated at Vegetto for toying around with Boo and not finishing him off quickly, only to be relieved when Vegetto appeared in Boo's body un-absorbed. I think, at that time, Vegetto would be so cocky as to just toy around with Boo for the hell of it, because Goku and Vegeta knew how dangerous the situation was. With Gotenks, it was different because he was a product of two stupid little kids who want to look cool.

I always like to equate him to Gogeta, who people suggest demonstrates two totally different personalities with his appearances in Movie 12 and GT. While it is true, most people seem to assume the writers just don't know what they are doing and just changed his personality because they wanted to, but that doesn't really seem to be the case. Vegetto and Gogeta pretty much share the exact same nature, which makes sense with them both being fusions of the same two characters. So if you look at Gogeta, it can help you to get a better grasp of Vegetto as well...

In GT, Gogeta's personality is almost a perfect match for how Vegetto acts during the Buu Arc. He seems to have a mission directly after "birth". He acts cocky and humiliates Yi Xing Long in order to force him into a corner. Once the dragon releases all the negative energy, and Gogeta is able to deflect the attack and alter the energy charge to positive, he switches gears and starts to get down to business like in Movie 12. Unfortunately, time isn't on his side. When he fires his Big Bang Kamehameha, assuming it will destroy Super Yi Xing Long, it actually only manages to return him back to his normal form because the dragon is a tough SOB. Before he can fire off the second shot, he is forced to defuse.

In Movie 12, Gogeta is "born" and immediately has a mission as well. Janenba is warping reality and screwing with dimensions. Regardless of if his intent was to save the oni with his attack or it just happened once Janenba was defeated, he doesn't really have anyone of importance as a hostage within him like Buu did, so Gogeta gets serious and eradicates the creature. Vegetto probably would have done the same thing if he wasn't trying to have Buu absorb him so he could extract his friends and family from the bubble gum guy.

[johnboy1]

I hope I'm not too late to suggest this, guys, but it might make more sense to do episodes 1-6 of GT for the first GTRoA. While the series doesn't have a well-known simple division like the 42 volumes of the manga, it does have a "volume system" in the form of the Japanese DBox singles. In those, it was split into eleven volumes, with the first nine being six episodes apiece and the last two being five apiece. In other words,

Volume 1: 1-6
Volume 2: 7-12
Volume 3: 13-18
Volume 4: 19-24
Volume 5: 25-30
Volume 6: 31-36
Volume 7: 37-42
Volume 8: 43-48
Volume 9: 49-54
Volume 10: 55-59
Volume 11: 60-64

That's an "official", reasonably sized division of the series, and it might be easier to follow. Just a suggestion.