Muten-Roshi weaker than Son Gohan?

[Attitudefan]

While watching the Baba arc, I just realized, Goku had a pretty tough fight with Gohan. It makes it more surprising because he got even stronger since the tournament. Roshi was surprised/worried that Goku was starting to surpass him in strength but put this into perspective; Roshi had a hard battle with Goku in the tournament, and now, Gohan was kicking Goku's powered up butt later on. If I remember correctly, wasn't Roshi supposed to be much more powerful than Gohan? If Roshi lost power, wouldn't have Gohan? Goku climbed Karin's tower, so did Roshi but did Gohan?

Roshi, who did all that, should not be weak by any standards as he did what Goku just done. What is even more odd is the fact that Roshi had got a super power up in the next three years and rivalled Goku and Tenshinhan.

[Pantalones]

I figure Gohan got stronger than he had been before his death through some sort of afterlife-y training. How long was it between his death and Goku having to fight him in Baba's place, anyway? I'm guessing at least a couple of years.

[Monkey D Goku]

Yeah pretty much what the other guy said Gohan probably got some after life training and not to mention the fact that your body when your dead is more durable and easier to achieve a higher power of some sort. Like when Goku said he could achieve ssj3 easier when he was dead I think the same would probably apply to Grandpa Gohan.

[Attitudefan]

Yeah pretty much what the other guy said Gohan probably got some after life training and not to mention the fact that your body when your dead is more durable and easier to achieve a higher power of some sort. Like when Goku said he could achieve ssj3 easier when he was dead I think the same would probably apply to Grandpa Gohan.

Yeah, I forgot about that. For some reason I doubt he got extra training as Roshi seemed to realize that it was Son Gohan due to his fighting style but then again, he might of.
I find it kind of funny to how a dead guy would be working harder than a man who is alive

[Fox666]

When Gohan was introduced, he was for sure the strongest of the two. However Kame-sennin admitted he was out of shape, and after a little training he fought equally with Tenshinhan.

[Attitudefan]

He did. So, if Gohan and Muten-Roshi fought in their prime, wouldn't Muten-Roshi totally outclass Gohan; certainly if Roshi is compared to how strong Tenshinhan was?

[goku the krump dancer]

But didnt Gohan get a hold of Goku's tail?

[Saiga]

He did. So, if Gohan and Muten-Roshi fought in their prime, wouldn't Muten-Roshi totally outclass Gohan; certainly if Roshi is compared to how strong Tenshinhan was?

We don't know for sure. Roshi could have been stronger when he fought Tenshinhan than he'd ever been before. We know that Roshi was forced to use the Bankoku-Bikkuri-Sho on Gohan before.

EDIT: Thanks for that, TDC.

[Michsi]

We know that Roshi was forced to use the Mafuba on Gohan before.

Maybe I'm not remembering something, but when did this happen?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

We know that Roshi was forced to use the Mafuba on Gohan before.

Maybe I'm not remembering something, but when did this happen?

He means the Bankoku-Bikkuri-Sho...

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think that, before his death, Gohan may've rivaled Muten-Roshi (whether or not in his prime, somewhere between when he started losing his shape and when he lost his shape or, well, when he lost his shape...I'm talking about at the time he trained him and/or fought him), because when Roshi used the Bankoku-Bikkuri-Sho Goku at the 21st TB, he mentioned that he'd only ever had to use it against one person before, and that was Gohan. However, I would assume that he was weaker or less durable than Goku at the 21st TB, because Roshi tells Goku that Gohan didn't last as long as him.

Chapter: 50, P2.3-5, P3.1
Context: about to fire the Bankoku-Bikkuri-Sho
Kame-sennin: “I’m sorry, but you’ve lost this match. [ ] You’ll see why soon enough…There’s only been one person in my life who’s made me use this technique. You’ll be the second one…The first was Son Gohan…Your grandpa…”

Chapter: 50, P12.2
Context: as Goku is about to give up while suffering from the Bankoku-Bikkuri-Sho
Kame-sennin: “A-alright…You held out well…Even Son Gohan couldn’t endure it for this long…!”

But afterwards, I assume that he kept his body in the afterlife, and so, with the advantage of training in the afterlife being better than on Earth because of time, gravity, being dead, less energy consumption and/or whatever, he surpassed Roshi.

[Senzu_Bean]

Can a dead person be out of shape? I want to think not and blame that as for the reason why Gohan did better than Roshi did against Goku.

[Fox666]

If they can get stronger, they can get weaker. But they don't age at least.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Can a dead person be out of shape? I want to think not and blame that as for the reason why Gohan did better than Roshi did against Goku.

Yeah, they don't age. That, and I think Gohan must've done some training in the afterlife, and we see the benefits of Goku's training in the afterlife over Vegeta (who supposedly trained even harder than Goku)'s Earth training even under, as far as we know, 300G. I don't think it was just Goku's genius that enabled him to stay ahead of Vegeta, or at least as much, and reach Super Saiyan 3. Like I said, it was time, gravity, being dead, less energy consumption, not to mention all the great martial artists he would've been able to spar with.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Whait a miniute, didn't Gohan kept his body because he was going to the living world? From what I remember, we don't know if Gohan had his body in the Afterlife, exept if you count filler.

[Fox666]

According to the Daizenshuu, this is the Heaven:



Do not forget the guy who Enma judged after Goku

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What the hell, a dog has a body? And is this a jellyfish in the background?! This makes things even more confusing...
Maybe the souls can change shape, which would explain why Chichi, Bulma, Videl and Dabra have their upper body and the villains in Hell having their full bodies. Maybe when your soul takes your bodies shape, you retain the power you had when you were alive, which makes sence in why Oob has Pure Boo's power, however you can't make stronger your "body-soul". So if you take your living body while you are dead, you can make it stronger, and even use this new strengh if you come back to life.

[Fox666]

Well, after Cell exploded, Kaio and Goku had their bodies right away. Perhaps that would explain why Enma supposed seized Raditz.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

What the hell, a dog has a body? And is this a jellyfish in the background?! This makes things even more confusing...
Maybe the souls can change shape, which would explain why Chichi, Bulma, Videl and Dabra have their upper body and the villains in Hell having their full bodies. Maybe when your soul takes your bodies shape, you retain the power you had when you were alive, which makes sence in why Oob has Pure Boo's power, however you can't make stronger your "body-soul". So if you take your living body while you are dead, you can make it stronger, and even use this new strengh if you come back to life.

I prefer Herm's Yu Yu Hakusho view...where even if you aren't granted a body, you can sacrifice some of your energy to manipulate your soul into forming one. This would also help explain the whole Goku/Cell/Paikuhan problem for those who don't think he just caught him off guard.

[Bussani]

What the hell, a dog has a body? And is this a jellyfish in the background?! This makes things even more confusing...

Maybe they did something to deserve it. Or they lived and died in the afterlife so their bodies were already with them--kind of like Elder Kaioshin dying and then just getting right back up. That's also how I figured Goku, Kaio, and Bubbles had their bodies after Cell exploded, although having Kaio there to fix them up may have helped as well.