MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/1/24!)

[Grimlock]

I mean, going by the old Battle of Gods continuity, I'd just assume the Super Saiyan God legend is even older than the Super Saiyan legend, to the point where the Saiyans themselves have completely forgotten it.

And that would be a completely fair assumption, but if we take into consideration what Toriyama said, then the opposite is true. We can throw Bardock in here, who transformed on Plant, not witnessed by any Saiyan, but merely by some Plantseijins and one member of the Freeza race. The former didn't seem to have anything at their disposal to record such event and so it would become a myth anyway, and the latter would install fear onto his race.

[DanielSSJ]

And that would be a completely fair assumption, but if we take into consideration what Toriyama said, then the opposite is true. We can throw Bardock in here, who transformed on Plant, not witnessed by any Saiyan, but merely by some Plantseijins and one member of the Freeza race. The former didn't seem to have anything at their disposal to record such event and so it would become a myth anyway, and the latter would install fear onto his race.

The issue with this is that I don't Toriyama's comments about Yamoshi and the Super Saiyan God are supposed to fit with what DBZ: Battle of Gods established. It seems to be a retcon of that story, and it's supposed to fit with the Dragon Ball Super continuity, where Shenlong never describes an "original" Super Saiyan God actually existing. This fits with Toriyama's statement. He never says that there was a previous Super Saiyan God, just that Yamoshi's spirit continued to wander in search of one.

Also, I'm a little confused what Episode of Bardock has to do with this.

[Gaffer Tape]

That Time Goku Went to Casino Hell - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 15

Dragon Ball Dissection December begins with Sugoroku Space! Goku has to roll the dice to get out of this weird purgatory dimension that even the gods can't help with. It's randomness all around as he deals with chestnut puns, naughty nurses, and, worst of all... SPACE TANUKI! Also, Pan gets it in her head that what will really turn the tide of battle is compulsory pooping. Everything is weird. Enough said. Hope you enjoy it!

[Gaffer Tape]

Nobody Cares About Oob - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 16

Dragon Ball Dissection December returns! Oob is here to save the day. Does he? Is it a spoiler if I say "no"? Yeah, well, forget about that. Goku is back, and he does a little thing where his transformation represents his and Baby's roles in the story! Ooh, my storytelling senses are tingling! Also, more Fashion Extrrravaganza!

So, uh, I got sick while working on this one, and it is readily apparent just by listening to the video. Did I let that stop me, though? Of course not! How are the results? Well, you'll have to find out for yourself. However, the results are already coming in, and people actually seem to like it. So I hope that you will as well.

[FoolsGil]

Uub you poor dolt. If there was anyone in the story most screwed over in GT it's Uub. Not even in the next two arcs does he get an attempt to redeem himself. Even Tenshinhan got to redeem himself against Cell, AND was an established character long before that!

[Slangh]

At least Uub does give Baby a the worst stomach ache of all time to buy time for Goku later on...

Ah yes having a deeper sounding voice is one of the few good things about being sick.

[FoolsGil]

At least Uub does give Baby a the worst stomach ache of all time to buy time for Goku later on...

I...I don't know if that is supposed to be a consolation prize, or a joke. And the reason why I say that, is because that is apparently all the training of Uub amounted to, and it is really, really lame. This isn't Fightin Foodons.

Ah yes having a deeper sounding voice is one of the few good things about being sick.

Sounded real smooth, Would've been a pretty good Phil Hartman impression in better circumstances.

[Koitsukai]

I always tried to like Uub but there just isn't anything to like... because there isn't anything at all. Good or bad. At least by the time he showed up as Earth's savior.
Those flashbacks from episode 1 could've been used to come up with unseen Goku'nUub moments together aside of punching each other in the face. Some slice of life moments, or the two of them just having a huge meal together.
And I have to say, it was key what Uub did from inside Baby but I didn't enjoy it.

Anyway, hope I don't sound like a psychopath, but Gaffer's sick voice was awesome, you should get sick more often

[DB1984]

Gaffer Tape, I was quite surprised about the possible plagiarism in that GT tune that I didn't notice until you pointed it out.

Speaking of plagiarism, do you think these tunes that supposedly inspired Koji Kondo's Mario/Zelda tunes were blatant or just a coincidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBNJ5cAxcQ8

[Gaffer Tape]

Gaffer Tape, I was quite surprised about the possible plagiarism in that GT tune that I didn't notice until you pointed it out.

Speaking of plagiarism, do you think these tunes that supposedly inspired Koji Kondo's Mario/Zelda tunes were blatant or just a coincidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBNJ5cAxcQ8

Oh, wow, I had no idea about those. The lead in to the SMB theme is so incredibly close! I'd like to think it's coincidence, but I'm sure there was some inspiration there.

[Slangh]

Hey now Uub can also get points for cultural references, since he looks like the Scream before he's spit out.

Uub is not a very interesting character because he's driven by loyalty alone. His ties to his village and Goku are too great to do anything else. He also seems to like fighting after discovering his strength, looking forward to fight strong people again, so there's no overcoming of fear either... He's just there because Goku wanted to fight as strong as Buu again, too bad for him.

[Gaffer Tape]

I can't keep listening to those Kondo-inspiration songs! Anyway!

A Transformation of Compassion - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 17

Dragon Ball Dissection December returns with Super Saiyan 4! Need any more be said than that? It's the transformation even people who hate GT love. But there's still a lot to discuss in regards to its meaning, its design, and whether or not it's the so-called "Super Saiyan of Legend." Ooh, fun stuff.

[Yuli Ban]

I can't keep listening to those Kondo-inspiration songs! Anyway!

A Transformation of Compassion - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 17

Dragon Ball Dissection December returns with Super Saiyan 4! Need any more be said than that? It's the transformation even people who hate GT love. But there's still a lot to discuss in regards to its meaning, its design, and whether or not it's the so-called "Super Saiyan of Legend." Ooh, fun stuff.

It's always going to bother me that GT never did anything with Baby's realization that the current crop of Saiyans aren't like the ones who destroyed Plant. That would have been a neat internal struggle for him. Baby doesn't have to necessarily turn "good" a la MasakoX, but him coming to terms with the fact he's now the evil conqueror terrorizing innocent er.... kindhearted-enough people would complete his transformation into being the thing he swore to destroy. Again, he doesn't have to believe any Saiyan is innocent, as long as he recognizes and acknowledges this new crop is different and possibly would have let him recreate Plant willingly if he had just explained himself.

That kind of brings up another point, though.

This is probably something that warrants mention in a later DBD just as a general recap of the feel of the series: the hotblooded nature of shōnen back in the 80s and 90s and the childlike morality of Dragon Ball. Maybe when you get to the infamous scene of Nappa's return with Vegeta, considering I've definitely seen a few comments scattered about how Nappa was "done dirty." That's something that can probably get at least a minute's worth of discussion. Modern audiences revel in slice of life storytelling, exploration of characters, what ifs, and all that fun stuff, and current writing workshops deeply stress against the idea of someone being "evil for the sake of being evil," hence why so many Dragon Ball fans want old villains to turn "good" or at least be explored further (the fact Vegeta turned good is probably what causes all this; even though Raditz, Nappa, the Ginyus, Cell, and others were stated to be as evil as they come, Vegeta was just as evil if not moreso and yet he got a character redemption). So when we watch DB again decades later, we just see all this missed potential, that potential being... an even more ballooned cast of characters who won't get to do anything, I guess.
When at the time, that was never a concern to the writers or the audience. Current What-If writers might pine about "What if Raditz, Nappa, or the Ginyus had been given the same chance others like Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Vegeta were?" when, at the time, these were just one-note bad guys. Even Goku's brother. In old-school kung fu movies, your brother could very much appear out of nowhere and be killed after a single fight two minutes later and you just had to accept it; Dragon Ball was never different. The show and comic were never sentimental or cared anything about worldbuilding, and is a series where life is inherently cheap, people wear eyepieces that explode when they read numbers that are too big, and everyone's name is a pun— it's just dumb boyish fun, appealing directly to 1980s/early 90s Japanese schoolboy machismo and comedy. Villains were never going to be more fleshed out than simply being evil for evil's sake, impossibly greedy, insanely prideful, and so on because Toriyama always found that easier to write and understand, and it's only chance that writing standards changed over time that this became seen as a problem. So characters not having a "rich" motivation beyond revenge or a desire to cause terror, or returning characters just being evil, is to be expected.

No, I don't know what I'm going on about either, but I felt the need to say it because I feel there's this attitude in the fandom that really wants DB to be more than what it always was and wanted to be. I can't blame others for feeling that way; I spent a good bit of time tinkering on a fan-worldbuilding project that's as far from Toriyama's world tonally as you can get but still uses some assets from it. It's fun to nerd out about all this stuff, but grounding yourself and remembering what Dragon Ball actually is can always do the soul some good. I say that because I've been binging Dragon Ball Dissection for the past several days while recovering from a (minor) surgery, and hearing an overview of the entire series in its Japanese form really reinforces that Dragon Ball as a whole is way more than the sum of its parts, but those parts are ultimately a comic series meant for 8-year-old Japanese schoolboys who loved watching martial artists brutalize each other in often funny ways.

[Gaffer Tape]

Somehow for Some Reason - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 18

Merry Christmas! Dragon Ball Dissection December concludes its look at the fight with Baby. It can be an emotionally-satisfying payoff, but... Oob never actually turned into chocolate, Bruits Waves can heal Baby, and Baby can't stay in a regular-sized Vegeta anymore. Why? Well, all of these things happen somehow, for some reason. What more explanation do you need?

That kind of brings up another point, though.

Thanks for that. That was a great read. If you know me at all, you know I'm not exactly a huge fan of the idea of bringing long-concluded characters back to turn them good, like, say, Bardock. So I'm totally on board with you. As a counter argument, though, it is interesting how you bring up DB's bloated cast, many of whom are reformed villains. So it's not as though the series doesn't have a lengthy track record of doing just that. So I can see how many viewers have some level of expectation for that to happen to their pet character. The counter to that counter is, well, the fact that the cast is bloated with people hanging around long after they've run out of things to do!

Anyway, glad I was able to keep you entertained during your surgery and recovery. I hope all is well.

[FoolsGil]

I can't keep listening to those Kondo-inspiration songs! Anyway!

A Transformation of Compassion - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 17

Dragon Ball Dissection December returns with Super Saiyan 4! Need any more be said than that? It's the transformation even people who hate GT love. But there's still a lot to discuss in regards to its meaning, its design, and whether or not it's the so-called "Super Saiyan of Legend." Ooh, fun stuff.

It's always going to bother me that GT never did anything with Baby's realization that the current crop of Saiyans aren't like the ones who destroyed Plant. That would have been a neat internal struggle for him. Baby doesn't have to necessarily turn "good" a la MasakoX, but him coming to terms with the fact he's now the evil conqueror terrorizing innocent er.... kindhearted-enough people would complete his transformation into being the thing he swore to destroy. Again, he doesn't have to believe any Saiyan is innocent, as long as he recognizes and acknowledges this new crop is different and possibly would have let him recreate Plant willingly if he had just explained himself.

Are you talking about Baby in his What If Videos? Because I don't know where Masako is going, but as he's hinting at a Multiversal Crisis, I doubt Baby, or Perfection as he's called in that story, is Good, at least in the traditional sense.

That kind of brings up another point, though.

This is probably something that warrants mention in a later DBD just as a general recap of the feel of the series: the hotblooded nature of shōnen back in the 80s and 90s and the childlike morality of Dragon Ball. Maybe when you get to the infamous scene of Nappa's return with Vegeta, considering I've definitely seen a few comments scattered about how Nappa was "done dirty." That's something that can probably get at least a minute's worth of discussion. Modern audiences revel in slice of life storytelling, exploration of characters, what ifs, and all that fun stuff, and current writing workshops deeply stress against the idea of someone being "evil for the sake of being evil," hence why so many Dragon Ball fans want old villains to turn "good" or at least be explored further (the fact Vegeta turned good is probably what causes all this; even though Raditz, Nappa, the Ginyus, Cell, and others were stated to be as evil as they come, Vegeta was just as evil if not moreso and yet he got a character redemption). So when we watch DB again decades later, we just see all this missed potential, that potential being... an even more ballooned cast of characters who won't get to do anything, I guess.
When at the time, that was never a concern to the writers or the audience. Current What-If writers might pine about "What if Raditz, Nappa, or the Ginyus had been given the same chance others like Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Vegeta were?" when, at the time, these were just one-note bad guys. Even Goku's brother. In old-school kung fu movies, your brother could very much appear out of nowhere and be killed after a single fight two minutes later and you just had to accept it; Dragon Ball was never different. The show and comic were never sentimental or cared anything about worldbuilding, and is a series where life is inherently cheap, people wear eyepieces that explode when they read numbers that are too big, and everyone's name is a pun— it's just dumb boyish fun, appealing directly to 1980s/early 90s Japanese schoolboy machismo and comedy. Villains were never going to be more fleshed out than simply being evil for evil's sake, impossibly greedy, insanely prideful, and so on because Toriyama always found that easier to write and understand, and it's only chance that writing standards changed over time that this became seen as a problem. So characters not having a "rich" motivation beyond revenge or a desire to cause terror, or returning characters just being evil, is to be expected.

No, I don't know what I'm going on about either, but I felt the need to say it because I feel there's this attitude in the fandom that really wants DB to be more than what it always was and wanted to be. I can't blame others for feeling that way; I spent a good bit of time tinkering on a fan-worldbuilding project that's as far from Toriyama's world tonally as you can get but still uses some assets from it. It's fun to nerd out about all this stuff, but grounding yourself and remembering what Dragon Ball actually is can always do the soul some good. I say that because I've been binging Dragon Ball Dissection for the past several days while recovering from a (minor) surgery, and hearing an overview of the entire series in its Japanese form really reinforces that Dragon Ball as a whole is way more than the sum of its parts, but those parts are ultimately a comic series meant for 8-year-old Japanese schoolboys who loved watching martial artists brutalize each other in often funny ways.

Plague of Gripes said it best in his latest talk about Dragonball: Thoughts on Dragonball Abridged paraphrased, it's because it's simple enough to be approachable, complex just enough to keep us reeled in long enough to project ourselves into it, and yet generic enough that we know how much better it should be.

For example, Gero's son was killed by a stray bullet in a situation years before the start of the series. Gero hates Goku because he destroyed the RR, and neither of these two issues are associated with each other. But in DBZA Gero's son was killed by Goku, and Gero was in the middle of a video call with him when it happened. Any hatred because of the destruction of the RR is secondary to Gero losing his son. The former is honestly par the course. The latter is what would've happened if the canon was as good as we wished it was.

Somehow for Some Reason - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 18

You know the idea of Trunks, Goku, and Pan facing off against Baby, or the other Saiyans joining in to face off against Baby, I wonder if the writing staff would have went that way for the end if they hadn't fully transitioned to Z style writing. They went way too safe for the ending. Also glad you also agree that Uub giving Baby indigestion was dumb as hell.

[Yuli Ban]

I mentioned this in a YouTube comment but I don't know if you brought it up yet (I'll certainly watch the new review later)

But two things about SS4:
1: I always found it somewhat neat that the design for the hair kind of harkens back to the unknown primitive Saiyans.


You see it too, right? This might be why I like Super Saiyan 4, because I love that design as well, far more than most Saiyan designs. It just radiates that "primal Saiyajin" essense that I come to these Thermonuclear Khornate Monkey Klingons for.

It's just a coincidence, I know, because

2: It's actually inspired by kabuki theater
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1336713603424997377


This was surprising to learn, but not shocking and I can absolutely see it and why 4 has those "goth eyeliner" highlights as people tend to call it.
And considering that Dragon Ball was rooted firmly in Chinese wuxia/xuanhuan martial arts fantasy, crossing it with a distinctly Japanese theatre artform does represent how much Japan had come to embrace the show and its aesthetic. It's like Speedy Gonzales or Jackie Chan becoming an American icon when you think about it.

[Gaffer Tape]

Then Piccolo Randomly Dies - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 19

Dragon Ball Dissection December reaches its conclusion and with it, so too does The Baby Arc! The heroes heroically save everyone from an exploding Earth... and then Piccolo randomly dies. Was he in this story?

Yay, I made it to the end of the year again! Whew. I so hope you've enjoyed DBD December this year!

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Congrats on finishing the Baby Arc ! 19 Dissections in (almost) one year, impressive stuff. With over 60% of the series now done, finishing GT before 2025 seens doable.

[DB1984]

So when you move on to the next storyline, is episode 41 gonna be Part 1, and A Hero's Legacy gonna be between Parts 1 & 2?

[Gaffer Tape]

So when you move on to the next storyline, is episode 41 gonna be Part 1, and A Hero's Legacy gonna be between Parts 1 & 2?

That's certainly the plan! I hope episode 41 has enough to fill a whole video.