Unpopular DB opinions

[Doctor.]

Eh, I guess I could say that I enjoyed the Boo saga as a whole very much and if I had the choice to either keep it in or delete it from history entirely, I would keep it without a second doubt. But I guess that isn't really an unpopular opinion, since many people think the same away.

Hmm... Oh, I think SSJ3 has the best design out of all the SSJ transformations.

[sintzu]

One opinion that i read a lot is that Vegeta is a weak charecter and is on the same level as yamcha and chiaotzu in terms of importance to the story even though he's the second protagonist along side Goku

[TheGmGoken]

One opinion that i read a lot is that Vegeta is a weak charecter and is on the same level as yamcha and chiaotzu in terms of importance to the story even though he's the second protagonist along side Goku

WHAT? Where have you seen that? Never saw that once in my life

[DBZAOTA482]

Eh. I agree with you about Chichi, and I agree that Vegeta is a darker character type than most other DB characters, but I vehemently disagree that there is anything honorable or samurai-code-like about Vegeta. He wears armor and fights. Those are about the only similarities. This is a guy who didn't give a shit that Raditz had died, nor did he want himself or Nappa to start trying to repopulate their almost-extinct race because he didn't want others trying to usurp him. He kills Nappa solely because he lost to an opponent. As far in as the Cell arc he asserts that earthlings are weird for not just killing anybody they find annoying. At his best, Vegeta is a very pragmatic fighter who will use any kind of advantage to further his own ends. But he has no honor. He has no code. Until the very end of the series, he operates on a very basic principle: "I'll do whatever the fuck I want, and who cares if that harms other people because they're not me."

II think when you break it down, it's just a cultural difference between Earthlings and Saiyans. I look at him as such a "Japanese Samurai warrior" in Saiyan standards. Saiyans are all evil killers, so among them he's just a bigger selfish asshole. Among humans, there are assholes, too, and the stereotype Samurais are not always "nice" people.

It's true he didn't give jackshit about anyone, that's why i put the word honorable in " ". . It's hard for me to explain my point with a guy like Vegeta, but i'll' try. I think his "honor" lies in the sense that he's true to what he wants to do. Look at Raditz. Everything he says is about pride and honor, but then he kidnapped a kid and said things like "Let go of my tail, I'll never come back" just to escape Goku's grip. I don't see Vegeta EVER doing that begging kind of cowardice, even if he was the guy who has power level of 1000. At his most evil, psycho state, he never choose other than the straightest way in front of his enemy. Yeah, he does what he wants, gives it his all, straight-forwardly and simple-mindedly, to the point of stupidity;and that is his code. He trains his ass off to be strong, fights a enemy when they are at the strongest. He does show fear and give up, but when he realized he screwed up, he takes the beating fair and square. In Cell Games he apologized to Gohan when he's "useless". Majin Vegeta takes his responsibility.

IMO a guy who withstands a beating, a GenkiDama, a Oozaruu, a slash to his back all head on and still fights straight and fair, no matter how evil he is, has a hell of a code of "honor". His sense of rivalry and pride, his attitude toward death when he's cornered, as well as his tsundere-ness to family life made him even more akin to that (in)famous Samurai image of the old Japanese.

The "honor" thing might be true for post-Freeza Saga but then and before, Vegeta would do anything to win if it meant playing dirty or working with the oppositing team. Eitherway, I don't get that connection between him and Chi-Chi or how that would make them a good couple.

Interesting analogy, though.


Another unpopular opinion is that Toriyama-sensei is a good writer but not a great storyteller for a variety of reasons (never plans ahead, callously casts characters aside, lets editors push him around etc.).

[sintzu]

WHAT? Where have you seen that? Never saw that once in my life

On here on multiple topics,I'v read that he has done nothing important in the story even though he's the first and only charecter to beat goku in a fight and get away with it which is amazing how people forgot this and say he never beat any big charecter and that's just one of many reasons to why i look at him as the second protagonist of the story

Thia is one of many that i have read :

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=Vegeta

You know the hate is bad when someone has to lie and say that he got his "Ass whooped by Goku/Krillin/Gohan"

Anyway beatting Goku alone should be enough to say he's an important charecter let alone when we add evrything else

[nhienphan2808]

Eh. I agree with you about Chichi, and I agree that Vegeta is a darker character type than most other DB characters, but I vehemently disagree that there is anything honorable or samurai-code-like about Vegeta. He wears armor and fights. Those are about the only similarities. This is a guy who didn't give a shit that Raditz had died, nor did he want himself or Nappa to start trying to repopulate their almost-extinct race because he didn't want others trying to usurp him. He kills Nappa solely because he lost to an opponent. As far in as the Cell arc he asserts that earthlings are weird for not just killing anybody they find annoying. At his best, Vegeta is a very pragmatic fighter who will use any kind of advantage to further his own ends. But he has no honor. He has no code. Until the very end of the series, he operates on a very basic principle: "I'll do whatever the fuck I want, and who cares if that harms other people because they're not me."

II think when you break it down, it's just a cultural difference between Earthlings and Saiyans. I look at him as such a "Japanese Samurai warrior" in Saiyan standards. Saiyans are all evil killers, so among them he's just a bigger selfish asshole. Among humans, there are assholes, too, and the stereotype Samurais are not always "nice" people.

It's true he didn't give jackshit about anyone, that's why i put the word honorable in " ". . It's hard for me to explain my point with a guy like Vegeta, but i'll' try. I think his "honor" lies in the sense that he's true to what he wants to do. Look at Raditz. Everything he says is about pride and honor, but then he kidnapped a kid and said things like "Let go of my tail, I'll never come back" just to escape Goku's grip. I don't see Vegeta EVER doing that begging kind of cowardice, even if he was the guy who has power level of 1000. At his most evil, psycho state, he never choose other than the straightest way in front of his enemy. Yeah, he does what he wants, gives it his all, straight-forwardly and simple-mindedly, to the point of stupidity;and that is his code. He trains his ass off to be strong, fights a enemy when they are at the strongest. He does show fear and give up, but when he realized he screwed up, he takes the beating fair and square. In Cell Games he apologized to Gohan when he's "useless". Majin Vegeta takes his responsibility.

IMO a guy who withstands a beating, a GenkiDama, a Oozaruu, a slash to his back all head on and still fights straight and fair, no matter how evil he is, has a hell of a code of "honor". His sense of rivalry and pride, his attitude toward death when he's cornered, as well as his tsundere-ness to family life made him even more akin to that (in)famous Samurai image of the old Japanese.

The "honor" thing might be true for post-Freeza Saga but then and before, Vegeta would do anything to win if it meant playing dirty or working with the oppositing team. Eitherway, I don't get that connection between him and Chi-Chi or how that would make them a good couple.

Interesting analogy, though.


Another unpopular opinion is that Toriyama-sensei is a good writer but not a great storyteller for a variety of reasons (never plans ahead, callously casts characters aside, lets editors push him around etc.).

Pre and Namek Vegeta is that "honorable" guy as well IMO. If anything, to me he showed more "honor" Pre-Android arc, mostly because since Android he's too much a raging idiot you can't detect the "honor" lol. Saiyan Saga Vegeta would kill Goku right on the spot before he considered doing any cowardly things involving Gohan and before anyone grab his tail. Look at the way he fights. Alone and tenaciously against 3, no 4. He's just more cunning on Namek and knows what his purpose is which is not fighting head on, and who's he's up aganst. Did'nt he say he would kill Gohan and Krillin after he has done with the DBs? He does not betray his words at least, he was being fucking evil and using them then and he let them know that. And the disgust he shows when cowards like Zarbon, Dodoria and Cui were begging. The Ginyu fight is one of my favorite. Vegeta does NOT bow to anyone even if he's trying not to pee his pants himself. He plays dirty like throwing dirt and all but he's a killer, not a martial artist like Goku so i call that a pass. In the fight with Frieza he wounded himself , but that's because he realized there's little hope. That's after he did something "honorable" like letting Frieza power up to max, being Saiyan. And then, his death earn Goku's respect. You don't simply earn the respect of a guy like Goku especially when you are a evil bastard and has told Goku to be evil like you.

About his similiarity to Chichi, here's some of my thoughts, check em out.

http://the-prince-has-balls.tumblr.com/ ... d-princess
Vegeta/Chichi is the rarest couple ever in fandom but after all, i say this in the right topic

[DBZAOTA482]

Pre and Namek Vegeta is that "honorable" guy as well IMO. If anything, to me he showed more "honor" Pre-Android arc, mostly because since Android he's too much a raging idiot you can't detect the "honor" lol. Saiyan Saga Vegeta would kill Goku right on the spot before he considered doing any cowardly things involving Gohan and before anyone grab his tail. Look at the way he fights. Alone and tenaciously against 3, no 4. He's just more cunning on Namek and knows what his purpose is which is not fighting head on, and who's he's up aganst. Did'nt he say he would kill Gohan and Krillin after he has done with the DBs? He does not betray his words at least, he was being fucking evil and using them then and he let them know that. And the disgust he shows when cowards like Zarbon, Dodoria and Cui were begging. The Ginyu fight is one of my favorite. Vegeta does NOT bow to anyone even if he's trying not to pee his pants himself. He plays dirty like throwing dirt and all but he's a killer, not a martial artist like Goku so i call that a pass. In the fight with Freeza he wounded himself , but that's because he realized there's little hope. That's after he did something "honorable" like letting Freeza power up to max, being Saiyan. And then, his death earn Goku's respect. You don't simply earn the respect of a guy like Goku especially when you are a evil bastard and has told Goku to be evil like you.

About his similiarity to Chichi, here's some of my thoughts, check em out.

http://the-prince-has-balls.tumblr.com/ ... d-princess
Vegeta/Chichi is the rarest couple ever in fandom but after all, i say this in the right topic

I reckon it's a combination of Vegeta trying to differenciate himself from the "softies" by clinging to the only he has left (pride) and achieving SSJ getting to his head.

Oh and I read that weeks ago but I would like to point out that several other characters have called Goku out on his shit (Piccolo yelling at Goku during the Cell Games being the most noteworthy), and Chi-Chi doesn't have a particularly hard time with showing affection. I still don't agree but it's not a bad analogy.

Besides, I'm more down with Chiccolo or Yam-Chi.

[Kid Buu]

Besides, I'm more down with Chiccolo or Yam-Chi.

Agreed.







The tension is strong between these two.

[TheGmGoken]

Fan shipping is overrated

[IDreamtIWasABee]

The Cell saga is filler. Glorious filler, and not deserving of the backlash it gets, but filler. If you jump from Freeza to Boo, it's stunning how much sense the Boo arc still makes (shit, in some ways, it makes more sense).

[Quebaz]

Fan shipping is overrated

But Oolong x Puar is so OTP ya know.

[Doctor.]

The Cell saga is filler. Glorious filler, and not deserving of the backlash it gets, but filler. If you jump from Freeza to Boo, it's stunning how much sense the Boo arc still makes (shit, in some ways, it makes more sense).

Wat. That isn't an unpopular opinion, at least on this site.

[TheGmGoken]

The Cell saga is filler. Glorious filler, and not deserving of the backlash it gets, but filler. If you jump from Freeza to Boo, it's stunning how much sense the Boo arc still makes (shit, in some ways, it makes more sense).

Huh? It would make less sense. How would it make more sense or any sense at all!?
Who's Trunks
Why Goten young?
How Gohan become SSJ
WHATS Ssj2
Ssj3!?
Goku was said to be alive! Why he dead
Room of sprit and time
Ssj2 Gohan!?
Why kids becoming SSJ!?
BulmaXVegeta fuck happen to Yamcha
Where's Ten?
Why is Piccolo weak?
Dende is Kami!?
Piccolo fused?
Krillin wife!?
Why her name 18
How do she know Goku
Who the fuck is this guy with shotgun sayin "haven't heard his voice in a long time".
Why everyone stop fighting

[Gaffer Tape]

WHAT? Where have you seen that? Never saw that once in my life

On here on multiple topics,I'v read that he has done nothing important in the story even though he's the first and only charecter to beat goku in a fight and get away with it which is amazing how people forgot this and say he never beat any big charecter and that's just one of many reasons to why i look at him as the second protagonist of the story

Thia is one of many that i have read :

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=Vegeta

You know the hate is bad when someone has to lie and say that he got his "Ass whooped by Goku/Krillin/Gohan"

Anyway beatting Goku alone should be enough to say he's an important charecter let alone when we add evrything else

Well, he certainly does a lot of important things, but most of those are things that benefit the villains and severely hinder the heroes. So from a certain perspective, even someone who accomplishes nothing (Chaozu) might be said to have an overall higher gain than someone like Vegeta.

[Kid Buu]

That thread seemed to go by how many times Vegeta got his ass kicked. Well, in terms of losses, Kuririn seems to have the most:

-Goku
-Jackie Chun
-General Blue
-Dracula
-Goku, again
-Tambourine
-Ma Junior
-Nappa
-Guldo
-Recoome
-Freeza
-Cell
-Cell Jr
-Dabura
-Buu
-Loses his role as the token relevant Earthling to Mr. Satan wut.

In comparison, Vegeta, who wasn't around as much, has less losses.
-Zarbon
-Recoome
-Freeza
-Eighteen
-Cell
-Cell, again
-Buu
-Buu, again

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Hmm... Oh, I think SSJ3 has the best design out of all the SSJ transformations.

I'd second that unpopular belief. A lot of people bash it at face value because the concept seems bizzare though something about when Goku uses it when the artwork is at its peak in detail make it look like the embodiment of badass. Its also a change from his prior forms looking rather similar. (which lead to a lot of animation mistakes)

I also like the Buu saga but only by skipping the Fusion and Fat Buu -solo arcs. I really can't stand Gotenks as a character. He is basically what makes SSJ forms look overaccessible. He by magic mastered his SSJ3 form perfectly before Goku. Granted its explainable but everything he did was pure troll fest.

I also don't like Fat buu as a villain. I understand him as a character but as a villain he just seemed to dumb.

Snip

Basically Vegeta gradually degenerates the more he thinks of others before himself, ironically he was right. Whenever he's evil he gets shit done or at least puts up a huge effort. The moment he started helping the Z-fighters he became a compete idiot in battle and outside it. As said the Android arc he was a complete selfish ass but at least he contrasted the rest of the group for that side of the audience that sided with him, though his cockiness got way out of hand because his rational thought couldn't keep up. Krillin to me is a smarter character than he was. Vegeta has never had a good fight against anyone after his fight with Recoome. Every other fight, he either ki spams, taunts then loses or just gets his ass beat to stall for time.

[sintzu]

Well, he certainly does a lot of important things, but most of those are things that benefit the villains and severely hinder the heroes.

Like helping Gohan kill cell ? or having a big part in kid buu's defeat ? or saving Goku from #19 ?

For some reason a good amount of fans forget these and the other big things that Vegeta has done

[Gaffer Tape]

You mean the Cell that wouldn't have been a threat if Vegeta hadn't stupidly let him become perfect to satisfy his own ego? Or still wouldn't have been much of a challenge if Vegeta hadn't forced Gohan to injure himself to save him? And the Boo that never would have been resurrected at all if Vegeta hadn't decided to throw a temper tantrum and start killing innocent people? As for #19... yeah, I'll give you that one.

I don't forget what Vegeta's done at all. I just don't forget that most of the good he's done is to make up for shit he screwed up in the first place, which, at best, makes him even.

[Kid Buu]

Vegeta didn't "force" Gohan to save him from Cell, Gohan did that one his own free will. I will say that Cell Games scene bothers me because it is meant to be Vegeta's big breakdown on realizing how he is an idiot and he wont fight again, but at the beginning of the next arc he has gone back to prideful arrogant Vegeta. Then again, considering he was the strongest in the universe again, maybe he had his reason too...

[Gaffer Tape]

Fine. I agree in the sense that it probably would've been far better in the long run if Gohan had just let Vegeta get killed. But I've always been willing to give Vegeta a pass on that one because at least he's acting stupid for someone other than himself. But it still doesn't matter because they wouldn't even be at the Cell Games at all if Vegeta, as always, wasn't acting like a selfish, childish sociopath.