Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

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Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:59 pm

Episode #0296 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes)
60:07; 96 kbps, mono; 41.5 MB

Episode #0296! VegettoEX and Hujio discuss a little bit of international news before taking it over to an interview with Jerome Mazandarani, Manga Entertainment's Head of Marketing and Acquisitions. The "Dragon Ball Z" TV series is finally seeing a home release in the UK, but what took it so long to come out, and where can the series go from here? Referenced sites:
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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by sangofe » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:28 pm

That interview was interesting.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:18 am

Well, not to spoil a bullet point on the interview, but... licensing fee is 6 pounds a minute. Dragon Ball Z. So that's around 35,000 just to be able to legally release the series. Toei aside, that explains a lot.

Definitely a good point to bring up reactions that it's not the Ocean cast continued dub; even better that he brought up that some are happy they're just getting the Japanese legally. Better still the idea of that there are still fans who don't know it's Japanese in 2012, because it's probably true.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Jackal puFF » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:57 am

GT review next week? Whoo! :mrgreen:

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Bussani » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:43 am

It's funny that The Mysterious Cities of Gold was mentioned. That got a big boxset release in the UK before everywhere else, if I remember right (although the Japanese had two rare, very expensive boxsets of it long before that), which is kind of the opposite of Dragon Ball over there! Anyway, great show, guys. I love listening to these when I'm driving.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:27 am

This is probably just me being a bit sensitive, and granted, I've not quite heard the whole episode yet, but it's been on my mind for a while. It just seems to me that the UK scene is treated more as a joke on the podcast. You know, as if we're not that important either. Mike will often say that he loves seeing all about the foreign stuff like the Spanish stuff, and will go into some detail with the stories of the week about such things, and yet with our UK thing, where we finally get DragonBall, and after some really quite snotty treatment by Manga (2 + 2 = 5, and all those comments), it just seems like Mike is all "Well, that sucks, but it's not like it's us, so it's okay to look at it from afar and have a little chuckle about it", a little token comment and then that's all there is to it.

But as I said, I've not heard the interview yet, so maybe Mike does actually come to our defence in the interview, calls Jerome out on some of his less than customer-friendly comments, and such, goes into better detail. Or, more likely, because it's an interview, he was too polite to bring it up, and just leave it as a case of "Oh well, at least they can finally get Dragon Ball, even if it's just the Orange Bricks. They should be grateful for that."

Sorry for having to say this. I've just been feeling a little disheartened by some of the way anything in the UK has been covered, lately. This is very much likely just me being overly sensitive, and just feeling a bit put out by the fact that we don't seem to matter as much, as opposed to the more exotic countries that Kanzenshuu is an audience to.

Once I hear the interview, I will edit this, to retract any statements that I need to retract, like if I am proven wrong (which is more than slightly probable).

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by sangofe » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:08 am

Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw wrote:This is probably just me being a bit sensitive, and granted, I've not quite heard the whole episode yet, but it's been on my mind for a while. It just seems to me that the UK scene is treated more as a joke on the podcast. You know, as if we're not that important either. Mike will often say that he loves seeing all about the foreign stuff like the Spanish stuff, and will go into some detail with the stories of the week about such things, and yet with our UK thing, where we finally get DragonBall, and after some really quite snotty treatment by Manga (2 + 2 = 5, and all those comments), it just seems like Mike is all "Well, that sucks, but it's not like it's us, so it's okay to look at it from afar and have a little chuckle about it", a little token comment and then that's all there is to it.

But as I said, I've not heard the interview yet, so maybe Mike does actually come to our defence in the interview, calls Jerome out on some of his less than customer-friendly comments, and such, goes into better detail. Or, more likely, because it's an interview, he was too polite to bring it up, and just leave it as a case of "Oh well, at least they can finally get Dragon Ball, even if it's just the Orange Bricks. They should be grateful for that."

Sorry for having to say this. I've just been feeling a little disheartened by some of the way anything in the UK has been covered, lately. This is very much likely just me being overly sensitive, and just feeling a bit put out by the fact that we don't seem to matter as much, as opposed to the more exotic countries that Kanzenshuu is an audience to.

Once I hear the interview, I will edit this, to retract any statements that I need to retract, like if I am proven wrong (which is more than slightly probable).
The UK not being treated as a joke, but the situation in the UK is kinda messy... and a little funny in itself... Releases like the Big Green dub is not something that makes it look ore serious either.

When you say
disheartened by some of the way anything in the UK has been covered, lately.
, that goes for any international Kai news these last months, too. Especially the various news in Latin America and Asia, plus some french news (that were minor, I'll admit that, but it's pretty awesome that Kai's being broadcasted in HD, subbed) have been omitted, apart from the Portuguese news just recently posted. So don't go around feeling "pity for yourself" :)

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:20 am

Yeah, being tired, cranky and not having had my Citalopram yet in the day didn't make me a happy donkey Lord. Now I've heard the actual interview, I'm a little more at ease. I still stand by what I said, in that I feel that (what was) Daizenshuu EX didn't really handle news about us in the UK best, bar the first initial thing about it, joking about it and treating it more of a case of "Well, that sucks, but we've got our Dragon Boxes, hur-hur", but I'm not as disheartened as my first message made out.

I will just add that in regards to the "Big Green Dub" being treated as a non-serious thing is kind of unfair on us, though, because there was a time, let's not forget, when people in America were upset because they only had Funimation's original dub to go with, no Japanese version to fall back on. That's how some of us felt about only having those really terrible dubs as our only way of officially supporting the franchise.

It probably helped that Jerome from Manga actually took the time to apologise and say a good amount of times that they really didn't handle the news well. Half the battle with me, often, is just apologising and owning up. I still feel Mike was a little too reserved about it, but I understand that you can't go on an interview and just go "Well, actually, you did say this and this and this", because that's not professional. All in all, the interview was handled well enough.

I apologise for my little outburst, it was a combination of the above tiredness, crankiness, not having my mood adjusters yet, and also a general bottling up of how I was feeling about the site and podcast as of late. I do have to admit that I still sometimes feel that Kanzenshuu does take a bit too much of a bias, sometimes. Yes, you like your Japanese version, yes, you didn't like how Funimation originally did things, but sometimes, I feel that the comments can become a little too "The sun shines out of the Japanese version, only, nothing else can compare", which really isn't fair.

Anyways, I'll stop rambling, before I make too many more enemies. I just felt I should get this off my chest.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:34 am

I'm not actually sure what it is you want or are looking for exactly.

It sounded like you wanted to rant for a bit about how we are a site dedicated exclusively to the original Japanese version of the franchise, but it sounds more like you want more coverage of... I don't know what. You say we didn't handle this Manga UK news well (I think)? What else did you want or expect to see? I'm pretty sure we hit every single last bit of relevant news along the way and tied it into the larger place it has in the franchise, and then followed it all up with an interview that, judging by your second response, does have every single last thing you wanted.

So you can understand my confusion.
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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by medama_oyaji » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:36 am

Good interview! As an American fan, the UK stuff isn't something that effects me, but I found the conversation between Mike and Jerome to be very interesting! Jerome was very frank and honest, something you don't always hear. Of course that guard being down led to the Twitter business, but he was aware and I think handled the subject well on the show. If I were in the UK, I would be happy to hear an employee of Manga speak so passionately about anime.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:39 am

VegettoEX wrote:I'm not actually sure what it is you want or are looking for exactly.

It sounded like you wanted to rant for a bit about how we are a site dedicated exclusively to the original Japanese version of the franchise, but it sounds more like you want more coverage of... I don't know what. You say we didn't handle this Manga UK news well (I think)? What else did you want or expect to see? I'm pretty sure we hit every single last bit of relevant news along the way and tied it into the larger place it has in the franchise, and then followed it all up with an interview that, judging by your second response, does have every single last thing you wanted.

So you can understand my confusion.
I'm sorry. I was probably a little confused, myself, at the time of writing said rant. And I can only apologise, as I've typed out at least three different answers to this, but none of them seem satisfactory. I guess I just can't voice exactly my issues with some of the coverage things have been getting lately, because for the longest time, I couldn't even get access to the forums thanks to an IP ban, and so I couldn't express my exact opinions when relevant.

To try and sum it up, it just feels that sometimes, Kanzenshuu can get a little too... "Biased" isn't the exact word I'm looking for, as it's too heavy for what I feel... But sometimes, it does feel that some topics are deemed less worthy of discussion than others. Like they're a little humourous aside. Like how our problems with Manga UK, and how we didn't get Dragon Ball for ages was treated less seriously, and now we have the Orange Bricks was treated less seriously as say... When America got the Orange Bricks. Now that you have your definitive Japanese version with all the things you wanted, it seems that any other version is not really that worthy of discussion, and that can sometimes alienate some of the fans who actually LIKE these different versions.

I understand that as this is your own site, run out of your own spare time, that you are entitled to make it more about what your personal interest is, but at the same time, if you're going to say that you cover "everything and anything Dragon Ball", it can be a little off-putting to hear constant put-downs of Kai (for all its flaws, which I accept are there, it can still feel like you're being told that you're not really a proper fan who should be listening to the podcasts and such, if you actually like Kai), or the dubs, or anything like that.

I suppose what I really want, is perhaps just a bit more consideration for the fans in your community that don't automatically like everything you like. Some of us in the community are from different cultures and perspectives. So, we may not all necessarily go with the "Our version is the best thing since sliced bread, accept nothing else" feel that can sometimes come from the show. I suppose, I just want some Devil's Advocate to be played, sometimes. Like a moment's thought that, while yes, you love the original Japanese version of things, or you like this aspect of the franchise or that aspect, some people don't. Some people want to hear about another "this and that", and we're still fans of the franchise too.

Admittedly, you HAVE actually done this every so often, but I just feel that lately, that hasn't been the case with the podcast, and I can't help but feel that every so often, if I don't have as much absolute love for everything that you like, I shouldn't really be counted as a fan.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:24 am

(Linking to all Kanzenshuu content, regardless of Daizenshuu EX or Kanzentai origin, because we honestly collaborated on all of them with the knowledge that they'd be rolled into this larger site down the road.)

I'm not sure if you're talking about every aspect of the site, or just the podcast itself -- if the former (Hell, either or!), I'm happy to break it out into a larger discussion if you think it warrants it.

But as I'm reading your concerns, I'm still not sure there's actually an issue anywhere.

Take the Manga UK / DVD example. Like I noted, we covered every single last aspect of that story -- from the initial extras ratings & Manga UK's response, to the leaked MCM ad, to Toei's website update (which was later pulled from their site), to the formal announcement.

We explained its significance and how the series never had a home release over there. We explained how it was the orange bricks from FUNimation they were putting out and the significance of that release. We followed it all up with an interview that, by all accounts, addressed any other possible thoughts or questions you had about the situation.

So what wasn't to your liking about it? Again, I'm happy to address the issues you might have, but you don't seem to be able to concretely state them other than what sounds like, "I wanted more."

As for podcast coverage, you're going to hear the real, down-to-earth, no-bullshit opinions that we hold. We'll tell you the news, but we'll also editorialize it. We'll take you down the rabbit hole with in-depth topics, but we'll also tell you what we really think about it all. In this case, take Kai for example -- more than any other site out there (dare I say professional or fansite), we dived into that monstrosity. We broke the news in the first place. We dived into the financials and why it even came to be. We analyzed how or why it might have failed. We provided the most detailed listing of the musical scandal. We detailed the remastering process (Kanzentai link since it hasn't been ported over yet). In the news posts and written content, we did it thoroughly and with as little editorializing as possible. In the podcast, we do all that PLUS editorialize it with our own honest opinions.

That's our style, and if we didn't do that, we wouldn't be us. It would be boring to listen to. No-one wants to listen to a robot parrot the news back at you. The podcast would no longer be a supplement or expansion; it would be a (pointless) replacement.

As for stuff other than aspects relating to the original Japanese version of the franchise... we're just not going to. It's not our interest. It's not what we cover. We can't cover something we're not interested in. If someone out there wants to set up shop and exclusively cover FUNimation's English dub, go for it. If someone wants to set up shop and exclusively cover the various iterations of the German translation of the manga, go for it. We can't do that stuff authoritatively, and so we're barely going to do it at all. If it ties into a larger story, sure, we'll note it. If it affects the original Japanese version of the franchise (such as Manga UK putting out the orange bricks, which contains the original Japanese version), you can be sure we'll cover it.

Again, I want you to love everything we do. If you have legitimate concerns about what we do and how we do it, I want to hear it. At the same time, if your concerns or suggestions go contrary to our actual mission, I don't know how much we can really do about it. I'm not going to drone on and on about how awesome Kai is, because (a) it's been over for a while now, and (b) I don't actually think that.

I know that sometimes it helps to attempt to just get it out there, though, so more power to ya'. Keep it comin'.

(Though I'd love to hear more about the actual interview and news story from folks, too ^_~.)
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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:33 am

Well, you're right. I can't concretely state my opinions on what I find the issue, because it's been going on so long, that I can't really cover every single minute detail I find wrong. But it looks like in this case, I might as well have just kept my mouth shut, and just kept myself as the non-vocal minority. I fear that I just feel that the podcast and site has gotten a lot less accessible than I used to find it. Maybe that's my fault for growing out of a mindset that was more close to yours, I don't know. The best solution here is probably to just call a drop to the conversation, and just say that I was wrong for expressing an opinion that I couldn't sufficiently give enough backing to. Maybe this community simply isn't for me. Maybe I should just go back to using Kanzenshuu as nothing more than just a quick site to look at for any releases that I might be able to buy, and not immerse myself in a community that I feel alienates you if you don't expressly follow the same opinions of those who set it up. I apologise for wasting time in this topic.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:57 am

I think you both misunderstand, and then unfortunately take that misunderstanding in a direction that was never stated or implied.

We want to hear your thoughts, and no-one is alienating anyone for not following some unspoken zeitgeist. The larger website might not extensively cover older English dubs, but folks on this site's forum sure do. The larger website might not extensively cover the Portuguese re-release of the manga, but folks on this site's forum sure do.

Everything you want is already here. It sounds like just because the hosts of the podcast won't necessarily parrot your exact opinions back at you (which they couldn't, because we're not you!), you're deciding to throw in the towel on everything. That's a little silly, don'tcha think?

We want you, you want us, and everyone's awesome.
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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:34 pm

Excuse me, but just because I'd like to hear about more than just one version of the franchise, or have some consideration to more than one type of fan (i.e. your type of fan) doesn't mean I want you to "parrot" my personal opinions. I want to hear other opinions than my own, but hearing the same opinion (i.e. "This version is the best version, according to us, and because we don't take any interest in any others, that's all we're going to discuss and give you to listen to") constantly can get old. Very old. For instance, I don't mind hearing how you like Nozawa Masako as an actress, every so often. I personally differ in that opinion, definitely for her later work in the franchise. I think she is a bit overrated, personally, and I find her tendency to fall back on "Kkh-kkh-kkh" to express anger to be overplayed. That doesn't mean I want you to tell me she is overrated, just to sate my desire. Why would I expect you to pander to the needs of just one fan? I just want to hear you consider other perspectives. Perhaps you might consider this next time you look at GT, instead of just falling on the "It's GT, so it's gonna automatically suck" argument or something like that.

And now, I'll shut up, so you can hear about things actually on topic, i.e. how your interview was good, what people actually came here to talk about.
Last edited by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Rukura » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:40 pm

That was a great interview. Loved how Mike drove it towards getting an answer to everything going back to the original extras listing.

Having it explained from Jerome's perspective did shine a new light on why things happened the way they did at the time. With that said, it was those initial responses that included the "1+1=3" that finally pushed me over the edge into getting the Dragon Boxes. As all 7 sit on my shelf, I regret nothing.

Looking forward to the new GT review.

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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:59 pm

(Thought about splitting off the discussion, but there's no real easy split since stuff is mixed it, so I'll just keep it -- no biggie!)

My intent isn't to be rude or get a rude response in return. I'm being as honest and diplomatic as I can about who we are and what we do.

I think we've been plenty fair and critical of the Japanese version. To stick with Kai for a bit, we railed on Hiromi Tsuru during the early episodes for her phoned-in performance. I gave Nakao a slap on the wrist for a couple lower-emotion lines that had far-more-impressive deliveries in the original version. I think pretty much everyone has talked at length about the music placement's lack of variety. We talked a bit about the inconsistent re-animation, and that one time where they accidentally left an effects layer off during a next-episode-preview (Tenshinhan's Kikoho against Nappa).

But that's all Kai, and you're a fan of it, so I don't want to seem like I'm exclusively picking on it... but it is the most recent set of examples I can concretely give where we were critical of the franchise and its production.

As for our two DBGT reviews on the podcast so far, I think we've been incredibly fair and dare I say positive about most of it thus far. It was really only episodes 9 and 10 that we started heading into "Uuuuugh..." territory, and I think rightfully so.

Maybe another example I can toss into the mix would be something like Dragon Ball SD. We went into it with no real preconceptions, and were let down. We stuck with it for a while, praising a good amount of its artwork, but simultaneously staying critical about how "safe" Ooishi was taking it. While we haven't very specifically reviewed the monthly chapters, we did from time-to-time mention how it was taking things in a new direction, praising its foreshadowing gags (usually one or two per chapter, such as the Zarbon transformation), while still mentioning how it was overall staying a little too close to the original story for our tastes.

So again, yes, our main focus is on the original Japanese version of the franchise, that's what we love, and that's what we're primarily going to cover. Will we be critical of it? Sure, when we think there's something to be critical of... and there are plenty of cases when we are! You might not feel that way coming in, but I guarantee you it's there.
Rukura wrote:Having it explained from Jerome's perspective did shine a new light on why things happened the way they did at the time. With that said, it was those initial responses that included the "1+1=3" that finally pushed me over the edge into getting the Dragon Boxes. As all 7 sit on my shelf, I regret nothing.
Yeah, I would have liked to have spent a little more time talking about the "grey import" area, but we had already gone for about 40 minutes, and he had family over visiting, so I didn't want to keep him too long :). I'm really glad he addressed the NDA and panic-mode over how to handle it, and how it's been pretty much nicely resolved... minus that whole part about you buying all the Dragon Boxes, instead :P.
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Re: Episode #0296 (22 April 2012)

Post by Rukura » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:11 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Yeah, I would have liked to have spent a little more time talking about the "grey import" area, but we had already gone for about 40 minutes, and he had family over visiting, so I didn't want to keep him too long :). I'm really glad he addressed the NDA and panic-mode over how to handle it, and how it's been pretty much nicely resolved... minus that whole part about you buying all the Dragon Boxes, instead :P.
Eh, thinking back, I didn't think it was all that necessary. They weren't able to get anything sooner, and, by the time they did, there was a much (MUCH) better product both in Japan and America that they weren't able to get. What else is there really to say at that point? :P
I had already been considering it for ages. Would've gotten the Japanese ones if I had the money lol (and the few singles I have, I love)

EDIT: Have you gotten around to listening to the recent Manga UK podcast yet? Some of the stuff Jerome said there regarding the remastering and the cropping (where it came from, why it was done) ...isn't exactly true(....nor does it make sense) :|

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