Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[dbzfan7]

Then why does half his Super Saiyan power amaze everyone when they don't even know it's only half?

Most of them never experienced SSJ Goku giving his all. When was he giving his all? He clearly outclassed Freeza (wasn't even that tired after that fight) and it was impossible to tell during the fight with 19 because he had the heart virus. He never really pushed himself in that form, probably because he couldn't control it as well until after the RoSaT.

Piccolo knows about Goku's full power during his fight with 19 and could recognize with Gohan when something was wrong. Piccolo was one of the surprised people after Goku showed half his power. Perfect Cell is clearly way above the androids which even as an SSJ Goku couldn't beat 16, 17, or 18 before his rosat training.

[Saiga]

Not to mention Super Saiyan Gohan is clearly stronger than Super Saiyan Goku, seen by everyone's reactions to his powering up and him thinking Super Saiyan Goku must be holding back.

[penguintruth]

Gohan just has a better control of the power than Goku does, because it's his potential peeking through.

Or maybe we're just overthinking all of this.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

It just came to my mind. Since there are 2 gods, a god of destruction and a god of creation. If Virus is defeated, and the god of creation (that's a big if) is not presented in the movie, then wouldn't it be possible for Toei to create the sequel showcasing the god of creation?

[dbzfan7]

It just came to my mind. Since there are 2 gods, a god of destruction and a god of creation. If Virus is defeated, and the god of creation (that's a big if) is not presented in the movie, then wouldn't it be possible for Toei to create the sequel showcasing the god of creation?

Maybe both will appear in the movie.

[Cold Skin]

It just came to my mind. Since there are 2 gods, a god of destruction and a god of creation. If Virus is defeated, and the god of creation (that's a big if) is not presented in the movie, then wouldn't it be possible for Toei to create the sequel showcasing the god of creation?

Oh, right, after having seen the trailer, somehow I convinced myself that Birus and Vis were both of them, Birus being destruction and Vis the creation (asking Birus "could you destroy the Earth, please?" so that he can create a new world/lifeform afterwards).

But your post reminded me that he's likely not, cause the character presentation specifically presented Birus as the God of Destruction, but not Vis as the God of Creation.
So yes, I guess we won't see the God of Creation for now.

I don't know if Toei is much into sequels, but it's possible depending on the success (right, Broly and Cooler?).
However, they might also be willing to have various storylines for further movies too and not being stuck in this one.
Those two possibilities are equally possible in the end, I think.

[Saiga]

Gohan just has a better control of the power than Goku does, because it's his potential peeking through.

Or maybe we're just overthinking all of this.

I think you're the only one overthinking things. I'm going with the simple answer that SS1 doesn't follow different rules than everything else, and is a multiplier like Toriyama described it.

[Kuwabara]

I don't think there necessarily has to be a multiplier system in place when it comes to Super Saiyan transformations, but at the same time I doubt it's as clear cut as penguintruth seems to imply.

Let's say Raditz at the beginning of the series could suddenly go SSJ2; SSJ2 Gohan during the Cell Games would still cream him without any difficulty. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if SSJ Gohan or even Gohan in his base form could cream him. By the end of DBZ, Goku in his base form could probably beat SSJ3 Raditz.

I'd say it has everything to do with their power at base form. Transformed states are built up from that. Whether you want to use multipliers is completely up to personal discretion, but transformed character power levels, ranks, tiers, or whatever else are a fluid concept based on initial strength.

[penguintruth]

Gohan just has a better control of the power than Goku does, because it's his potential peeking through.

Or maybe we're just overthinking all of this.

I think you're the only one overthinking things. I'm going with the simple answer that SS1 doesn't follow different rules than everything else, and is a multiplier like Toriyama described it.

Yes, SSJ was a multiplier of Goku's power right before he first became one. But once somebody else could do it, it made them equally as powerful as him in that form. Thus SSJ Vegeta shouldn't be any more powerful than SSJ Goku. SSJ Trunks, as well.

Vegeta only figured he was stronger because it was him, so naturally he should be, because he thinks he's awesome.

[Fox666]

Man, screw the guides. (...) They're as official as any fanfiction.

I guess this link explain it well enough:

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8383049/1/

Daizenshuu Misconception 1: Randomers wrote the Daizenshuu, therefore it is Fan Opinion.

False. No one wrote the Daizenshuu. It was collected material from the manga, collected by an organizational group called Caramel Mama who had worked with Toriyama before on Chrono Trigger and more recently, they've worked on Dragon Ball Kai.

Secondly, the man who served as Editor to all the Daizenshuu Volumes (Watanabe Akinori) worked side by side with Toriyama on the DB and DBZ manga, and he directed the Dr. Slump movie.

Daizenshuu Misconception 2: It contradicts itself, so it must be wrong.

False. The Daizenshuu contradicts itself because the volumes in which this happens, there was a different organizational group involved.

Daizenshuu 2 Organization ; Battle Volume: Caramel Mama (the company who worked on Dragon Ball Kai, and Chrono Trigger.)

Daizenshuu 7 Organization ; Character Encyclopedia: Caramel Mama, and this organization called "Kisousha" which I can find nothing about, however, it's one entity, and I smell Toei's name all over it.

IN FACT: Collaborative Parties from Daizenshuu 7 include: Toei Animation, and Fuji TV.

Daizenshuu 6 Organization ; Movie Guide: Solely the "Kisousha" organization. Caramel is not included.

Daizenshuu 4 Organization ; World Guide: Solely Caramel.

Daizenshuu 1 Organization ; Complete Illustrations: Solely Caramel.

So, you see? The only times the Daizenshuu contradicts itself is when there is outside influence from third parties such as the Kisousha company and Toei.

Daizenshuu Misconception 3: Daizenshuu is just a guidebook put out by no one recognizable.

False. The Daizenshuu was published by Toriyama's studio.

Shueisha Co., Ltd.

[penguintruth]

Let's say Raditz at the beginning of the series could suddenly go SSJ2; SSJ2 Gohan during the Cell Games would still cream him without any difficulty.

I disagree. SSJ2 Raditz would beat SSJ2 Gohan because he has more fighting experience.

Anyway, if Raditz could go SSJ2, he certainly wouldn't have been working for Freeza. Freeza would be his bitch.

And just because the guides were "official", doesn't mean they weren't just a bunch of people going, "Yeah, sure" to fan theories and making a buck off of sating them. It's a bunch of after-the-fact assertions. Toriyama wasn't thinking with such complexities when he was writing the story.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Gohan just has a better control of the power than Goku does, because it's his potential peeking through.

Or maybe we're just overthinking all of this.

I think you're the only one overthinking things. I'm going with the simple answer that SS1 doesn't follow different rules than everything else, and is a multiplier like Toriyama described it.

Yes, SSJ was a multiplier of Goku's power right before he first became one. But once somebody else could do it, it made them equally as powerful as him in that form. Thus SSJ Vegeta shouldn't be any more powerful than SSJ Goku. SSJ Trunks, as well.

Vegeta only figured he was stronger because it was him, so naturally he should be, because he thinks he's awesome.

But didn't Piccolo comment that when Vegeta became SSJ, he was more powerful than Goku even without heart virus? Each's base power is different from another one. Even SSJ Goku was stronger than SSJ Vegeta by 25th Tenkaichi Budokai.

[Saiga]

Yes, SSJ was a multiplier of Goku's power right before he first became one. But once somebody else could do it, it made them equally as powerful as him in that form. Thus SSJ Vegeta shouldn't be any more powerful than SSJ Goku. SSJ Trunks, as well.

Vegeta only figured he was stronger because it was him, so naturally he should be, because he thinks he's awesome.

But you're basing this off nothing, and contradicting both the guides and the series while doing so.

Where exactly does this belief come from?

[penguintruth]

Piccolo wasn't even conscious on Namek when Goku was a Super Saiyan, how the f**k should he know about what that power's supposed to feel like? He can get a perfect reading from Namek while standing on Earth? Bullshit. It's got to be a general sense at best.

Piccolo's opinion isn't worth crap. Goku was suffering from a damn heart virus during the fight with 19. It just didn't flare up completely yet.

[Saiga]

Piccolo wasn't even conscious on Namek when Goku was a Super Saiyan, how the f**k should he know about what that power's supposed to feel like? He can get a perfect reading from Namek while standing on Earth? Bullshit. It's got to be a general sense at best.

Because he spent 3 years training with Super Saiyan Goku and notes that he knows Goku's power should be much higher than it is when he's sick.

[Karasai]

But your post reminded me that he's likely not, cause the character presentation specifically presented Birus as the God of Destruction, but not Vis as the God of Creation.
So yes, I guess we won't see the God of Creation for now.

Maybe they're hiding it away from the viewers? Vis seems like the supporting character that doesnt do much, which tricks us into thinking he wont do anything in the movie. So they would make him the main villain or really important in the end of the movie.

I dont know if its just me, but that little shot of Vis with dramatic lighting kinda makes me suspicious of his true motives.

[penguintruth]

Piccolo wasn't even conscious on Namek when Goku was a Super Saiyan, how the f**k should he know about what that power's supposed to feel like? He can get a perfect reading from Namek while standing on Earth? Bullshit. It's got to be a general sense at best.

Because he spent 3 years training with Super Saiyan Goku and notes that he knows Goku's power should be much higher than it is when he's sick.

3 years training with a guy with a f**king heart virus, man. Just because it didn't break out, doesn't mean it wasn't affecting him.

[Zephyr]

3 years training with a guy with a f**king heart virus, man. Just because it didn't break out, doesn't mean it wasn't affecting him.

Doesn't mean it was affecting him either though.

[Saiga]

Piccolo wasn't even conscious on Namek when Goku was a Super Saiyan, how the f**k should he know about what that power's supposed to feel like? He can get a perfect reading from Namek while standing on Earth? Bullshit. It's got to be a general sense at best.

Because he spent 3 years training with Super Saiyan Goku and notes that he knows Goku's power should be much higher than it is when he's sick.

3 years training with a guy with a f**king heart virus, man. Just because it didn't break out, doesn't mean it wasn't affecting him.

Doesn't mean it was, either.

You still haven't answered why, exactly, you believe this.

@Zephyr Beat me to it.

[Chuquita]

But your post reminded me that he's likely not, cause the character presentation specifically presented Birus as the God of Destruction, but not Vis as the God of Creation.
So yes, I guess we won't see the God of Creation for now.

Maybe they're hiding it away from the viewers? Vis seems like the supporting character that doesnt do much, which tricks us into thinking he wont do anything in the movie. So they would make him the main villain or really important in the end of the movie.

I dont know if its just me, but that little shot of Vis with dramatic lighting kinda makes me suspicious of his true motives.

I can't imagine that walking stick/wand/pole with the gem at the top he's carrying around is just for show; I'd like to hope he's got some magical powers of his own and uses that against the main cast. Even though he doesn't look like a physical attacks are this thing, it doesn't mean he couldn't be a long-range fighter who uses magical spells.