Some simple questions about Dragon Ball GT

[Shineman]

Do you strongly dislike Dragon Ball GT?

Not at all. In fact, I rather enjoy GT much more compare to Dragon Ball Z.

Have you seen all 64 episodes of GT and the special? If not, how much have you seen?

I've seen the entire series multiple times, including watching it in Japanese dub, including the GT's Special.

If you have seen every episode of GT and the special, do you like GT?

Yes, I prefer GT over Z. Although GT has it flaws and poor execution, it's still rather enjoyable to me.

It's still part of an alternate timeline regardless of whether it's a direct sequel or not. Movie 6 sure as hell wouldn't fit in the anime or the manga because of the Dende fiasco. Everything is canon under the alternate timelines proposed by Toriyama in the Daizenshuu 6.

That only applies to movies, though. GT isn't a movie, he just refer it as a "Grand Side-story" of the original manga.

[Zenkai]

Sorry but GT won't fit into the manga's timeline without an absurd amount of continuity errors.

Please try to name several.

[Hellspawn28]

You got bad guys escaping out of Hell which can't happen in the manga. Bebi is a mutant Tsufurujin which is a race that was never shown or mention at all in the Manga. The Evil Shenrons can't be born if there is no Super 17 saga since the link between Earth and Hell help create a chain reaction allowing the negative energy inside the Dragon Balls to be released.

[Zenkai]

You got bad guys escaping out of Hell which can't happen in the manga. Bebi is a mutant Tsufurujin which is a race that was never shown or mention at all in the Manga. The Evil Shenrons can't be born if there is no Super 17 saga since the link between Earth and Hell help create a chain reaction allowing the negative energy inside the Dragon Balls to be released.

Why couldn't bad guys escape from hell in the manga? Just because it didn't happen, doesn't mean it can't happen. And why does it matter that the Tuffles weren't mentioned?

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Well this should cover what you need to know Zenkai.

DBZ: 67
When Goku is surprised Chaouzu is the fourth person on Kaios planet.
Goku: But didn't he blow up?!
Yamcha: Kami sama could regenerate even his body!

DBZ 223
Goku: Hey I'm not being a martyr! They're going to give me special treatment here because I saved the planet. Regular people and bad guys like Cell turn into spirits, but I get to keep my own body, I won't age anymore...

DBZ 273.
Vegeta: Will I be able to see Kakarroto in the after life?
Piccolo: No. you have killed to many innocents. You will lose your body, and your soul will be banished to a place quite different than Goku's. There it will be reincarnated into a new form, but only after it is cleansed of it's memories.

[Zenkai]

Well this should cover what you need to know Zenkai.

Thanks!

[Hellspawn28]

I'll tell you why Goku never transformed into the new form in GT: because that form didn't exist when GT was created.

That's true, but in a universe stand point of view that SSjG or none of the events of Battle of Gods were ever mention. I never view the DBZ movies canon to the manga or the anime series expect for BOG because none of the events in the movies mentioned in the TV series or the manga. For example, Bojack and his gang from DBZ Movie 9 were never brought up again in the show. Movie 13 could still have happen in the anime TV series going by how Goku was able to use Ryu-Ken (Dragon Fist) in GT.

[Blade]

It's still part of an alternate timeline regardless of whether it's a direct sequel or not. Movie 6 sure as hell wouldn't fit in the anime or the manga because of the Dende fiasco. Everything is canon under the alternate timelines proposed by Toriyama in the Daizenshuu 6.

You're quite wrong to tell people that there is 'no way' that GT could ever fit within the Manga timeline and use the 'side story' quote as your evidence. You're speaking definitively on the subject and that quote is not elicit proof of what you're telling people. It could be read in numerous different ways - the way in which you're using is only one.

On the other hand, Dragonball GT is the direct anime sequel to Dragonball Z. Forget 'canon', forget 'alternative timelines' - these are irrespective and an entirely separate debate. My issue is with you waving the 'side story' quote around, quite incorrectly, to justify your personal assertions and reject other people's in regard to your own versions of Dragonball continuity.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Sorry but GT won't fit into the manga's timeline without an absurd amount of continuity errors.

Please try to name several.

KK. Gohan is a SSJ. Bad guys keep their souls in Hell. C-19 and Major Metallitron are in Hell even though they don't have souls. Cooler is in GT. There are many more.

It's still part of an alternate timeline regardless of whether it's a direct sequel or not. Movie 6 sure as hell wouldn't fit in the anime or the manga because of the Dende fiasco. Everything is canon under the alternate timelines proposed by Toriyama in the Daizenshuu 6.

You're quite wrong to tell people that there is 'no way' that GT could ever fit within the Manga timeline and use the 'side story' quote as your evidence....

Umm I'm not using that as my sole evidence and GT literally cannot fit into the manga. You can argue the anime if you wan but the manga? Hell no. Bad guys do not keep their souls, they are reincarnated when they die. The Super 17 arc contradicts that entire rule so it literally will not fit.

On the other hand, Dragonball GT is the direct anime sequel to Dragonball Z.

Would you like to show me where that is stated? Again though, direct sequel or not, it's still an alternate timeline.

[Zenkai]

Gohan is a SSJ.

I don't think they ever said he couldn't turn SSJ. I know it's been debated, but there is no clear answer.

Cooler is in GT.

.....so?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan is a SSJ.

I don't think they ever said he couldn't turn SSJ. I know it's been debated, but there is no clear answer.

Cooler is in GT.

.....so?

Even so, why does he not go Ultimate? It's ultimately flawed. Again Toriyama stated in the Daizenshuu 6 that the films take place in alternate universes. Cooler can't be in there if GT is supposed to fit with the manga.

It's still part of an alternate timeline regardless of whether it's a direct sequel or not. Movie 6 sure as hell wouldn't fit in the anime or the manga because of the Dende fiasco. Everything is canon under the alternate timelines proposed by Toriyama in the Daizenshuu 6.

That only applies to movies, though. GT isn't a movie, he just refer it as a "Grand Side-story" of the original manga.

Toriyama views anything he didn't create as an alternate timeline. Side story would also imply alternate timeline. Here is his quote:

I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the manga”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them.

The bolded quote would imply he views anything he didn't create as an alternate universe

[Zenkai]

Gohan is a SSJ.

I don't think they ever said he couldn't turn SSJ. I know it's been debated, but there is no clear answer.

Cooler is in GT.

.....so?

Even so, why does he not go Ultimate? It's ultimately flawed. Again Toriyama stated in the Daizenshuu 6 that the films take place in alternate universes. Cooler can't be in there if GT is supposed to fit with the manga.

I consider everything anime to be anime canon.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I consider everything anime to be anime canon.

That's fine, I do too. However I still use alternate timelines to explain the inconsistencies.

[Blade]

Sorry but GT won't fit into the manga's timeline without an absurd amount of continuity errors.

Please try to name several.

KK. Gohan is a SSJ. Bad guys keep their souls in Hell. C-19 and Major Metallitron are in Hell even though they don't have souls. Cooler is in GT. There are many more.

It's still part of an alternate timeline regardless of whether it's a direct sequel or not. Movie 6 sure as hell wouldn't fit in the anime or the manga because of the Dende fiasco. Everything is canon under the alternate timelines proposed by Toriyama in the Daizenshuu 6.

You're quite wrong to tell people that there is 'no way' that GT could ever fit within the Manga timeline and use the 'side story' quote as your evidence....

Umm I'm not using that as my sole evidence and GT literally cannot fit into the manga. You can argue the anime if you wan but the manga? Hell no. Bad guys do not keep their souls, they are reincarnated when they die. The Super 17 arc contradicts that entire rule so it literally will not fit.

On the other hand, Dragonball GT is the direct anime sequel to Dragonball Z.

Would you like to show me where that is stated? Again though, direct sequel or not, it's still an alternate timeline.

Look, just stop. You're missing the point - Dragonball is extremely inconsistent. Toriyama's flight-of-fancy plotting regularly created inconsistencies with itself - picking out GT plot inconsistencies to try and colour your own opinions as fact is a pointless exercise, you're not proving anything. The manga continuity is not some kind of sacred text that can be literally followed to very the word - it's flawed, in-congruent and occasionally quite lazy!

Heck, Toriyama was actually responsible for some of GT's inconsistencies. The Manga states that a Saiyan's hair does not change, then he designed Vegeta for GT with a cropped haircut and a mustache (Yes! Toriyama contributed that very design!)

[ABED]

It was my understanding that the negative energy in the dragon balls is what helped the hole to Hell to open, not the other way around.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Heck, Toriyama was actually responsible for some of GT's inconsistencies. The Manga states that a Saiyan's hair does not change, then he designed Vegeta for GT with a cropped haircut and a mustache (Yes! Toriyama contributed that very design!)

He could have just cut his hair.

I'll add this from the SEG too.

Toriyama adds that Saiyan hair style still changes with age, and that Nappa went bald. Like with Earthlings, hair composition various from person to person.

[Kamiccolo9]

It was my understanding that the negative energy in the dragon balls is what helped the hole to Hell to open, not the other way around.

No, what opened the hole to hell was the connection between the two Android 17's. Dende and Piccolo later did the same thing. The negative energy concept wasn't mentioned until they attempted to summon Shenron after the Super 17 Arc, so it was unrelated to the hole being opened in the first place.

[Bussani]

Heck, Toriyama was actually responsible for some of GT's inconsistencies. The Manga states that a Saiyan's hair does not change, then he designed Vegeta for GT with a cropped haircut and a mustache (Yes! Toriyama contributed that very design!)

He didn't say it couldn't be cut. I mean, your eyebrows don't change or grow crazy long either, but you can still shave them off if you feel like it.

C-19 and Major Metallitron are in Hell even though they don't have souls.

Who says they don't?

[Rocketman]

I don't think they ever said he couldn't turn SSJ. I know it's been debated, but there is no clear answer.

If he could, wouldn't he have done so when Buu was kicking his ass?

[Bussani]

He transforms when they create Super Saiyan God in the new movie, right? But even if you consider that true to the manga (or whatever), we still don't know whether transforming like that actually makes him stronger or not. I'd guess not, or like Rocketman said, he would have and should have used it when he was getting his butt kicked.