Why are Goku & Chi-Chi the only flawed parents of the show??

[MediaFanGirl93]

The last few posts have really hit the nail on the head (then ripped its arm off).

I'm having a hard time thinking of any better parents in the series, other than Gohan and Videl (and we just assume they're good parents from what little we see of them as parents combined with their premarital personalities. Presumably they're good, well-adjusted parents, but for all we know, Gohan is too busy being a scholar and Goku is teaching Pan to be wreckless. ).

In defense of the Ox-king, though, most roaming psychopaths and criminals were too terrified to approach him or his daughter, and ChiChi did kinda have a death helmet™. (IIRC, didn't Yamcha knock her out in self defense? I could be misremembering.)

I think the only perfect parents of the show are Gohan and Videl (only at the end of DBZ) along with Krillin & Android 18. GT isn't canon, so it doesn't really count. Also, Chi-Chi and Bulma were good mothers in the Buu Saga at least. I don't think the Ox-King is a bad father, but he isn't a perfect father either because he at least improved.

[Kamiccolo9]

The last few posts have really hit the nail on the head (then ripped its arm off).

I'm having a hard time thinking of any better parents in the series, other than Gohan and Videl (and we just assume they're good parents from what little we see of them as parents combined with their premarital personalities. Presumably they're good, well-adjusted parents, but for all we know, Gohan is too busy being a scholar and Goku is teaching Pan to be wreckless. ).

In defense of the Ox-king, though, most roaming psychopaths and criminals were too terrified to approach him or his daughter, and ChiChi did kinda have a death helmet™. (IIRC, didn't Yamcha knock her out in self defense? I could be misremembering.)

I think the only perfect parents of the show are Gohan and Videl along with Krillin & Android 18. GT isn't canon, so it doesn't really count. Also, Chi-Chi and Bulma were good mothers in the Buu Saga at least.

I don't think we really know enough about Gohan and Videl as parents to decide whether they were good at it or not. I can agree with Krillin and 18 though. Maybe even Mr. Satan; he obviously cared about his daugter, and he also believed in her abilities as a fighter.

[TheGmGoken]

GT isn't canon, so it doesn't really count.

DB has no official canon.

The last few posts have really hit the nail on the head (then ripped its arm off).

I'm having a hard time thinking of any better parents in the series, other than Gohan and Videl (and we just assume they're good parents from what little we see of them as parents combined with their premarital personalities. Presumably they're good, well-adjusted parents, but for all we know, Gohan is too busy being a scholar and Goku is teaching Pan to be wreckless. ).

In defense of the Ox-king, though, most roaming psychopaths and criminals were too terrified to approach him or his daughter, and ChiChi did kinda have a death helmet™. (IIRC, didn't Yamcha knock her out in self defense? I could be misremembering.)

I think the only perfect parents of the show are Gohan and Videl along with Krillin & Android 18. GT isn't canon, so it doesn't really count. Also, Chi-Chi and Bulma were good mothers in the Buu Saga at least.

I don't think we really know enough about Gohan and Videl as parents to decide whether they were good at it or not. I can agree with Krillin and 18 though. Maybe even Mr. Satan; he obviously cared about his daugter, and he also believed in her abilities as a fighter.

Most likely me just nit picking but here is why Satan, Krillin, and 18 sucked as parents:

Mr. Satan lied to his daughter and let herfight crimes in the city(This was filler but didn't she almost die?) while he is banging his fangirls or being more of a fake. Krillin and 18 lives with a pervert. Pretty sure that's not good influence. Not to mention once Marron(or is it Maron?) hit puberty and grow breast, hips, curves, or an ass Muten Roshi is going to be all over her.

[MediaFanGirl93]

=-

[Gaffer Tape]

In this case, I don't know if I believe it's a double standard based on gender but more on popularity of the characters. You know, its the whole Draco in Leather Pants trope wherein fans will rationalize clearly evil actions just because they like the character. Chichi isn't that popular a character to begin with and doesn't have the same priorities as characters who are popular, so she's a bitch. Vegeta is one of the most popular characters, so he can murder children who have what he wants, murder truck drivers who are in his way, murder innocent spectators just to get the attention of his man-crush, and treat his son like garbage, and everyone will be like, "Oh, he's so angsty and complex and misunderstood!"

[DBZAOTA482]

In this case, I don't know if I believe it's a double standard based on gender but more on popularity of the characters. You know, its the whole Draco in Leather Pants trope wherein fans will rationalize clearly evil actions just because they like the character. Chichi isn't that popular a character to begin with and doesn't have the same priorities as characters who are popular, so she's a bitch. Vegeta is one of the most popular characters, so he can murder children who have what he wants, murder truck drivers who are in his way, murder innocent spectators just to get the attention of his man-crush, and treat his son like garbage, and everyone will be like, "Oh, he's so angsty and complex and misunderstood!"

So... would you consider Bulma an example of "Draco in Leather Pants", even if mildly considering she isn't inherently evil?

[Gaffer Tape]

I... what? I'm confused. How did Blooma get into this conversation? Are you saying she's a bad parent? Or is she not?

[DBZAOTA482]

I... what? I'm confused. How did Blooma get into this conversation? Are you saying she's a bad parent? Or is she not?

She's not a bad parent (but she's not particularly good either). I'm just curious.

[MediaFanGirl93]

In this case, I don't know if I believe it's a double standard based on gender but more on popularity of the characters. You know, its the whole Draco in Leather Pants trope wherein fans will rationalize clearly evil actions just because they like the character. Chichi isn't that popular a character to begin with and doesn't have the same priorities as characters who are popular, so she's a bitch. Vegeta is one of the most popular characters, so he can murder children who have what he wants, murder truck drivers who are in his way, murder innocent spectators just to get the attention of his man-crush, and treat his son like garbage, and everyone will be like, "Oh, he's so angsty and complex and misunderstood!"

That's fine with me, because other fandoms do the exact same thing even with popular/unpopular female characters against other female characters (so you didn't offend me), so it's not sexist. It only becomes sexist when fans say sexist things about a male/female character.

It reminds me of a certain fandom I won't mention when they try to make ordinary bully characters (either male or female) far worse than threatening villains, despite the bullies doing far less damage than the major villains. Sorry for bringing something irrelevant to this convo, I just wanted to write an example I noticed.

I'm not saying you should like the unpopular characters (because I dislike my share of characters who are unpopular with their respective fandons).

I completely understand the fans who dislike Chi-Chi, because I remember I didn't like her that much either when I first saw her because I felt she was annoying along with Bulma (with her "bratty teenage girl" personality), but I just think it's not right to single her out and say she's irredeemable and an abusive, uncaring mother/person, when she caused far less damage than some other characters (I see people do this with Yamcha too, so it's not a sexist double standard at all). I mean, Her, Bulma, and the other female characters may be abrasive sometimes, but at least they have scruples.

So... would you consider Bulma an example of "Draco in Leather Pants", even if mildly considering she isn't inherently evil?

Well, I do think Bulma can be one, but it's downplayed since she's just a jerkass and she's not evil. I mean, I do notice that fans ignore her bad behavior, and what she did to Yamcha in their relationship and only single out Chi-Chi to bash on when at the end of the Saiyan Saga, she ignored a severly-injured Goku and only paid attention to Gohan. This is a Never Live It Down moment for her, despite something like this never happening again in the series.

This does annoy me sometimes, because that's like people singling out and bashing on Chris Brown for being a domestic abuser, yet ignoring celebrities like Bobby Brown.

[Kamiccolo9]

So... would you consider Bulma an example of "Draco in Leather Pants", even if mildly considering she isn't inherently evil?

Well, I do think Bulma can be one, but it's downplayed since she's just a jerkass and she's not evil. I mean, I do notice that fans ignore her bad behavior, and what she did to Yamcha in their relationship

Well, apparently Yamcha cheated on Bulma, so he's not entirely blameless in a discussion about their relationship.

[Ninja Murasaki]

So... would you consider Bulma an example of "Draco in Leather Pants", even if mildly considering she isn't inherently evil?

Well, I do think Bulma can be one, but it's downplayed since she's just a jerkass and she's not evil. I mean, I do notice that fans ignore her bad behavior, and what she did to Yamcha in their relationship

Well, apparently Yamcha cheated on Bulma, so he's not entirely blameless in a discussion about their relationship.

You mean Bulma tried to cheat on Yamcha, at every opportunity.

[Kamiccolo9]

You mean Bulma tried to cheat on Yamcha, at every opportunity.

She may have tried, but she never did (as far as we know.) The manga outright says that Yamcha did, though. I'm not leaving Bulma blameless in this, but both sides were at fault.

[DBZAOTA482]

So... would you consider Bulma an example of "Draco in Leather Pants", even if mildly considering she isn't inherently evil?

Well, I do think Bulma can be one, but it's downplayed since she's just a jerkass and she's not evil. I mean, I do notice that fans ignore her bad behavior, and what she did to Yamcha in their relationship

Well, apparently Yamcha cheated on Bulma, so he's not entirely blameless in a discussion about their relationship.

Well, with a girlfriend like Bulma you can't blame him too much.

[Ninja Murasaki]

You mean Bulma tried to cheat on Yamcha, at every opportunity.

She may have tried, but she never did (as far as we know.) The manga outright says that Yamcha did, though. I'm not leaving Bulma blameless in this, but both sides were at fault.

We saw on panel Bulma try to have affairs with at multiple male characters at many points. Bulma even says once in the manga she doesn't see anything wrong with seeing other men while with Yamcha.

Trunks, says he did in his timeline, but remember he's Bulma's son.

[Kamiccolo9]

You mean Bulma tried to cheat on Yamcha, at every opportunity.

She may have tried, but she never did (as far as we know.) The manga outright says that Yamcha did, though. I'm not leaving Bulma blameless in this, but both sides were at fault.

We saw on panel Bulma try to have affairs with at multiple male characters at many points. Bulma even says once in the manga she doesn't see anything wrong with seeing other men while with Yamcha.

Trunks, says he did in his timeline, but remember he's Bulma's son.

Again, I'm not saying she didn't. I never claimed that Bulma is some postergirl for fidelity.

As to your other point, my reply is "why even put it there if it's not true?" It's never refuted (and, I think, never even referred to again), so there's no reason not to accept it.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Trunks, says he did in his timeline, but remember he's Bulma's son.

Again, I'm not saying she didn't. I never claimed that Bulma is some postergirl for fidelity.

As to your other point, my reply is "why even put it there if it's not true?" It's never refuted (and, I think, never even referred to again), so there's no reason not to accept it.[/quote]

Probably because it seems so out of character for Yamcha, Bulma has wrongly claimed Yamcha was unfaithful before, the Present day Yamcha even talks afterwards he should settle down, and interviews say Yamcha remains girl phobic.

[Gaffer Tape]

I... what? I'm confused. How did Blooma get into this conversation? Are you saying she's a bad parent? Or is she not?

She's not a bad parent (but she's not particularly good either). I'm just curious.

I don't know if I'd say she's exactly that, but I would say she often gets a pass from her bad behavior from male fans because, "Dur hur! She's hot!"

[Kamiccolo9]

Probably because it seems so out of character for Yamcha, Bulma has wrongly claimed Yamcha was unfaithful before, the Present day Yamcha even talks afterwards he should settle down, and interviews say Yamcha remains girl phobic.

People change? And even if he didn't, just because he's scared of girls doesn't mean that he can't function around them. Yamcha never demonstrated that after the early parts of Dragon Ball.

And people make mistakes. It's not "out of character." People are not static, unchanging beings that never stray from their comfort zone.

Honestly, I don't even feel like debating this. The manga flat-out says that Yamcha was unfaithful to Bulma. And Toriyama said the same thing.

Speaking of Yamcha, he was dumped by Bulma, wasn’t he?

That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; [Yamcha]‘s a cheater.” (laughs)

Source.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Speaking of Yamcha, he was dumped by Bulma, wasn’t he?

That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; [Yamcha]‘s a cheater.” (laughs)

Source.

All we have is a quick secondhand of Furuya saying how Toriyama dismissed his question.

More recent interview

Yamcha’s Epilogue:
Like you, KenKoba, he has the dilemma of loving women but not being good around them, so he is still wandering blindly in search of the ideal partner he won’t be nervous around. He’s even worked in a host club, but because of his nervousness, it didn’t go well and he was fired. His livelihood is mainly working together with Pu’er as a freelance bodyguard, but he occasionally goes to Tenshinhan’s to help with the farm, as well.

Source.

[MediaFanGirl93]

I... what? I'm confused. How did Blooma get into this conversation? Are you saying she's a bad parent? Or is she not?

She's not a bad parent (but she's not particularly good either). I'm just curious.

I don't know if I'd say she's exactly that, but I would say she often gets a pass from her bad behavior from male fans because, "Dur hur! She's hot!"

I disagree. I see a few people bash Bulma for her personality, even going as far as to say that the Evil Future Android 18 is nicer than Bulma (and Chi-Chi).