Dub-Music Bashing

Daizensushi-x · Post by **Daizensushi-x** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:39 am

On the topic of dub bashing, I want to know why so many people don't like Bruce Faulconer's music. Sure, it was rock, but most of songs felt like they were placed in much better in the japanese version, IMO. And some songs were just really powerful. If you want to find some good tracks go to itunes music store (if you have it) and search dragon ball. It will have a list of artists, then click Bruce Faulconer. I recommend listening to the 30 second clips of "Vegeta-Super Saiyan", "Gohan Fights Frieza", "Super Namek", and "Pikkons theme". These are some of my favorites, but I guess it is all a matter of choice.
So why don't you guys like it?
Thanx

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:45 am

(Hi! Can you do me a favor and please put double-line-breaks in between your paragraphs? Kinda like you'll see my post below? It just makes for much easier reading. Thanks so much!)

Umm... because... it's not the Japanese version?

I dunno. I just don't like it. I found it all extremely hollow sounding (almost as if it was encoded at something like 64 kbps before being mastered? if that makes sense?), uninspired, and monotonous. Blah blah blah, he got better towards the end, blah blah blah... that's all irrelevant. The impression was made in season three into season four, and that's the impression I have.

I was also coming off of the original dub, where Shuki Levy recorded pieces of music for specific episodes and specific scenes early on. While it's true that Faulconer later fell into that school of thought, by then, I couldn't give any less of a rat's ass

.

The combination of my not liking FUNimation's dub to begin with (their voices and their script) led into not liking the music in an extremely convenient way.

I think that word I used before, "hollow," best describes how I see the dub and the sum of all its collective parts.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:52 am

I'll say this only: 'Rock the Dragon' was probably the only Dub song I haven't hated (well, that and the American DB opening from 2001)

GT's shitty rap is just pathetic. Rap and anime do not mix!

(Except for Samurai Champloo.)

I obviously prefer 'Cha la head cha la' or 'We Gotta Power' two amazing songs that really bring DB to life. 'Dan Dan' is too bad either...

Well, that's my 3 and half cents on the subject...

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:05 am

The problem is not the music itself, it's the fact that the music was changed at all. Some of the music is not bad taken by itself. And I happen to think the BGM used in the first two seasons (the Ocean Studios dub) was pretty good, because it was more professionally produced than Faulconer's.

It's when you take the music as a whole, and see that the dub doesn't have insert songs like "Battle Power Infinity" or "Unmei no hi", you can see why people prefer the original Japanese music.

Bejiita · Post by **Bejiita** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:59 am

Despite the fact that the original BGM is better anyway, I think it's the fact the Funimation thought they had the potential to create better music than the original had, seeing as if they wanted to they could have used the original score, they just didn't want to.

They must have thought, 'right, music from an eighties show needs to be revamped for the cartoons of this day and age or people won't like it.' Wrong. They should have left it untouched, what cheek.

Japanese BGM is more dramatic, much more meaningful, and they have so many different pieces that they can use for certain scenes, and each piece they use fits perfectly. Even when they use some of the original music from Dragonball in the Z series it goes well.

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:03 pm

Having seen the dub of the first two "seasons" and thinking the music was pretty good, then the later Ocean dub of the Trunks - End, "Season 3" and its music leave a bad taste in my mouth.

The voices sounded wrong, the music was different and not as good(and more synthesised), the picture looked crappier.

I've heard a few tracks from later on, like "Gohan powers up" (or whatever the hell it's called, most of them are "Someone powers up", "ascension", "Someone's theme" or something silly like that) and the SSj 3 Goku theme. They were a little better but still had that same "meh" quality to them.

Mattias · Post by **Mattias** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:52 pm

You know what Faulconer's score consists of? Electric bass, electric guitar and some drums. Maybe some synth here and there. Write 2 or 4 measures and repeat multiple times. What kind of score is that? Is that even a score? Is that even music?

While at times the original score can be a little bit melodramatic and at times sounds like something out of Star Trek, the idea that it captures emotion of the scene and brings it out is what makes it so effective. At the same time, the use of silence during certain scenes also adds to the tension, where FUNi believes there needs to be music blazing through from beginning to end.

Then again, it may not have been FUNi's choice as much as it has been Faulconer's, I don't know for sure.

FUNi would have been better off hiring an actual composer as opposed to a mixer. Although Shuki Levy's scores won't win him any awards anytime soon, at least he used a better variety of colours and themes. Faulconer's was just hard rock, low angsty chords, more chords, repeat....

I could go on.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:58 pm

What really bothers me about the dub music is more that they felt the need to change it in the first place. It's just another one of those times where they were insulting kids' intelligence. They figured that kids wouldn't want to watch an action show with orchestrated music in it. Trust me, most kids don't pay much attention to background music. When was the last time you saw some kids standing around discussing the soundtrack to a show they watched? They stand around discussing what happened last week and things about the characters.

I agree with Mathias as well about the fact that there always has to be music going. Silence can convey so much more at times, but Americans seem to be afraid of it or something.

Also because just like with the VAs they hired, the cheap job they did for the dub's production shows in the music. Let's not even get into the movie's BGM. "For the movies we need obnoxious, loud rock music that will drown out the dialogue at the most inappropriate times." They really ruined especially the Bardock Special. "Solid State Scouter" was perfect during Bardock's fight with Dodoria's men. And to take out "Hikari no Tabi", one of the most beautiful pieces ever composed for DB and replace it with Sum41? What the hell?!

I know everyone says that he improved later on and I'm sure like the VAs, he did. But I feel the same as Mike on this one. I'm already scarred and prejudiced towards it I'm afraid. Plus I also only care about the Japanese anyway.

Then of course everytime I hear the dub music of Faulconer, all I picture is a chimpanzee banging away on a synthesizer thanks to EX's description of it once. Darn you Mike!

Daizensushi-x · Post by **Daizensushi-x** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:05 pm

I can see what you guys are trying to say, but something about the music just gets me... especially during the Cell Games.

I don't know, I started watching DBZ in 1997 when I was 9 (on Toonami), so I guess you could say that I was "raised on" it. So whenever I hear it today, it reminds me of the good times back in the day when I first watched DBZ.

Where's Great Saiyaman (the user) to back me up?

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:41 pm

Myself, I love "Ginyu Transformation" and was kind of disappointed it wasn't used when Vegeta got hit by the Spirit Bomb. It definately would have fit.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:08 pm

Super Sonic wrote:Myself, I love "Ginyu Transformation" and was kind of disappointed it wasn't used when Vegeta got hit by the Spirit Bomb. It definately would have fit.

Everyone seems pissed it wasn't recycled in that scene for the redub

.

Anyhow, do some of you guys even know the main reason FUNi changed the music in the first place? Same reasons the music was changed in Budokai Tenkaichi, licensing issues and paying royalties. Think about it, if FUNi had used the original music for the DBZ series, they would have had to pay royalties every single time DBZ aired on Cartoon Network, YTV, ect. That may have ended up in a scenario where they'd be spending more money than making it. Now when they hire a composer on the other hand (Bruce Faulconer, Mark Menza, Nathan Jones), then they don't have to pay royalties and can go through less trouble as the episodes air on television without issues.

There are the special exceptions with DBZ movies 1 and 2, as well as the entire original DragonBall series, and evidently FUNi had severed ties with Saban (Shuki Levy as well) so they had no basic choice but to keep the original music for the televised airings of movies 1 and 2 (though they already had an edit-dub of movie 3 availabe that had replaced music). Concerning the fact they retained the music for the entire original DB airing (which I give them props for, as I prefer that dub over the Japanese version), that was basically due to major fan request and demand that they not replace the original BGM, and also due to the fact that original DB wasn't as "mainstream" and popular as DBZ. Because FUNi didn't replace the music for original DB and remained admiringly faithful to the storyline, I'd say that dub is just as good...if not better than the first 3 uncut Pioneer movies.

Point I'm trying to make, you guys shouldn't place blame entirely on FUNi, as they would have had to pay a lot of money, in royalties, had they retained the original BGM for the DBZ series. Why the hell they found the need to replace the music for GT, especially considering the fact that the Blue Water dub kept it, is beyond my comprehension. It, like original DB, was an entirely different series than Z. If they had to replace the BGM, I would have preferred Faulconer's music over that complete bullshit score of Mark Menza's. Don't place entire blame on FUNi for the music in Z's dub, but place entire blame on them for screwing GT's dub like a red district whore. Bright side about FUNi's work with GT, the Japanese version remained as intact as the Dragonbox itself ('cept for the Goku Jr. special, of course). ^^;;

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:12 pm

I'm sick of people saying "I guess it's just because I was raised on it."

From 1997 until 1 and a half years ago, all I had ever seen was the dub, and yet it took me...very little time at all to realize that the Japanese Version was quite superior in quality and in other aspects, and also led me to become a Manga collector. I now have no inclination to watch or hear the dub. Ever. I was raised on it 'just like everybody else'.

So, that excuse doesn't apply. You just need to be open minded and develop a solid taste for it and go from there.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:53 pm

To be honest, I don't like the JP Music. I kinda hate it, I am not a fan of the softer music. It just sounds kind of odd. I love FUNi's music, the rock aspect is much better & far better suiting.

I'm sick of people saying "I guess it's just because I was raised on it."

People cannot help how they feel. No one can help what they prefer, it's just like people who prefer Rap over Rock, some people may find Rap music bad but that doesn't mean people don't have the right to love it. I don't even think the JP music is more dramatic either, it's just not suiting of these types of characters.

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:00 pm

I think the Japanese music is better suiting because DBZ is not about fighting, but rather about characters who happen to like fighting. Same reason why an intro like Head Cha La fits much better than an intro with heavy metal music.

Last Son of Krypton · Post by **Last Son of Krypton** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:09 pm

Aside from the polka music playing in the Spice Boys fight and the Goku/19 fight, I like the music in the dub. The rock music in the re-dub, to me, fits the show. It's a fast paced, action oriented show and the fast paced rock music was a nice addition. I also like the music in the dub movies. I don't particularly care for the Japanese music. Some tracks I like, some I don't. It's all a matter of taste.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:09 pm

Right, but still action packed music I find to be better. But to each his own, right?

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Right, but I'd have to disagree because after watching the show for a while you realize that half the time the characters aren't fighting at all. You also have to consider that it was a continuation of the dragonball series and they kind of had to string it together and give it the same feel. It just never really seemed to have that hardcore element that the dub tries to pull off. Though how hardcore those little blips and bloops are, I don't know.

I also would't consider the royalties issue too much of an argument considering Funimation was already quite aware of the success of the series before Faulconer began handling the music. It's not as if they would have been taking a huge risk. Look, they kept the original music in Dragonball and you certainly don't see them suffering for it. Nobody complained about it either so I don't see what they would be worried about.

Daizensushi-x · Post by **Daizensushi-x** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:38 pm

By the way, ever since I heard VegettoEX praising the japanese version on his podcasts, I decided to give it a shot, by watching the Cell Games in japanese.

I was already an expert on Funi's version of the show. And I like the japanese version, too. A lot. But I prefer the American dub (Funi).

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:42 pm

I agree with Mr. Announcer that they likely wouldn't have been taking a huge risk. As I already stated, seriously, kids don't tend to notice or care about a cartoon's BGM. I think I could have even understood better if they had just changed the theme song. That's been done with Naruto, and while I still don't like it, at least they kept everythig else. Plus I don't see the kids turning away from the show just because the BGM is the original stuff.

Great Saiyaman's opinion, while he's welcome to it, is the type of thinking I'm talking about here in North America. Action and fighting is macho, therefore you need macho sounding music like fast rock. I've just always thought this was a little close-minded is all.

Though, in the end, I also agree with Great Saiyaman that everyone is entitled to their opinion. They have a right to like what they like without being called a "stupid dubbie" or a "noob", or whatever. I'm quite sick and tired of people in anime fandom being elitist towards each other for whatever reason.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:44 pm

Nicely said, the main thing is, people cannot help what they like best, this whole world has bias in it. I am an american, I was introduced through the Dub & I went along knowing only the dub for almost 3 years. This is DragonBall to me.

Kanzenshuu

Dub-Music Bashing

Dub-Music Bashing

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