Did anyone like the Garlic Jr. Saga?

[FoolsGil]

Just curious. It seemed old school Toonami loved airing that thing. I always watched it when I had the chance growing up. Thinking about it now, it had good ideas: The blackwater mist was probably the only thought out plan in DBZ that was more than just kill everyone. Goku and Vegeta was out of the way, so that was neat. Umm, Krillin's girlfriend was awesome, lol.

There was the bad of course. It's bad enough that in DBZ Movie 1, Garlic decided to open the Dead Zone, the only thing that can stop him. Why would you do it again? And of course it's because Garlic Jr is immortal and whatever, but hell Toei, you never considered Garlic Jr having a son, instead of you know, Garlic Jr escaping the Dead Zone, and then going back into the Dead Zone. Oh, and Krillin was useless, but apparently has better defenses than Piccolo because he would not die at all. I think those were my only two gripes tbh.

All in all, I like it. Rather watch it than GT's best episode. Was one of the few bummed out that TFS decided not to do an entire saga.

[Lord Beerus]

I fucking despise the Garlic Jr arc. Mainly due the fact that I think the Dead Zone is one of the weaker DBZ movie to me. But I also hate the arc because Garlic Jr is an uniteresting villain, the fights were lackluster and plot didn't appeal at all. The only saving grace of the arc is we briefly saw Piccolo kick some ass and Gohan Krillin doing something of importance.

[InfernalVegito]

Yep! I like it just like anything else.

I like how the focus is more on the other characters without them waiting for Son Goku to appear and save them. That created a tenser situation in my view and the way Piccolo deceived Garlic Jr. was cool.

[Kakacarrottop]

Can't really say i hated it or liked it. I mean i like the premise, but it's the only DBZ saga i can't remember watching growing up in the early 00s (i think i did watch it back then but i'm not certain). The only thing i remembered about it for the longest time was the footage from the saga used in the FUNi opening (eg Krillin fighting Garlic's henchmen). Last year i watched a few clips of it on Youtube and it didn't seem all that bad to be honest.

[Valerius Dover]

I like it a lot! It felt like a nice change of pace giving the B-Team stardom. I have not yet seen Dead Zone, however, so I can't comment on what that one's like. But I enjoy this arc.

[JulieYBM]

I like it. We see the character interacting and having fun, the animation is the usual strong animation, the music selection makes great use of the scarier pieces from Kikuchi Shunsuke's catalogue, and the voice acting is quite good, too. I think the arc could have been trimmed by an episode or two, but at the same time I think the plot could have been altered to expand on Garlic Junior's past or give him a goal for after he has turned the Earthlings into demons. Give the Makyou demons a rival planet that they plan on using the Earthlings to fight in a war or something!

[Valerius Dover]

^Oh, speaking of music, did I mention some great Faulconer themes were heard in this arc? Garlic Jr. has a pretty good villain theme, and the track erroneously named "Gohan Fights Frieza" made its debut here. Also, that circus theme.

[Kakacarrottop]

^Oh, speaking of music, did I mention some great Faulconer themes were heard in this arc? Garlic Jr. has a pretty good villain theme, and the track erroneously named "Gohan Fights Frieza" made its debut here. Also, that circus theme.

Garlic Jr's theme is brilliant, and up there as some of the best music to come out of DBZ. Very nice, creepy ethereal theme which gave the saga an appropriately dark feel in English. The music used really helped cover up the dub's poor acting/production values for the saga.

[mysticboy]

It should've just been a movie imo.

[Gaffer Tape]

I liked the beginning and the end. Basically, I liked all the character stuff. Once the fighting began, it became unbearably terrible, boring, and repetitive. If they only had enough story for five episodes, it should have only been five episodes. Nine was just way too much for what little they had. I can understand how the pacing on manga material can be rather slow. But they're the ones writing it. There was no excuse for it to be such an empty mess.

Also, the art direction was terrible. How did they take one of the best-looking movies and turn it into some of the worst-looking episodes? The outside of the sanctuary looked bland. The inside of the sanctuary looked drab. And the God place looked just as interesting as what took place there, ie., not at all.

[JulieYBM]

I just noticed that both of the Seigasha episodes were directed by Yama'uchi Shigeyasu. No wonder their choreography was so good!

It should've just been a movie imo.

That would have defeated the purpose of it buying the production staff ten weeks for the comic to get ahead of the animated series.

I liked the beginning and the end. Basically, I liked all the character stuff. Once the fighting began, it became unbearably terrible, boring, and repetitive. If they only had enough story for five episodes, it should have only been five episodes. Nine was just way too much for what little they had. I can understand how the pacing on manga material can be rather slow. But they're the ones writing it. There was no excuse for it to be such an empty mess.

That was probably a combination of a lack of time to build up a longer story or due to the lack of available drawings to increase the amount of fighting.

[Kid Buu]

It kind of feels like a foreshadow of the Cell Arc with Krillin getting a romantic partner, Piccolo's relationship with Kami being explored, and Gohan being the main hero.

[Gaffer Tape]

That was probably a combination of a lack of time to build up a longer story or due to the lack of available drawings to increase the amount of fighting.

Still no excuse. And increasing the amount of fighting was the last thing it needed. The fighting already choked the entire arc. It needed much, much less fighting. Less recycling of the same animation of Kami and Popo running and jumping to make up for the fact that they're not doing anything. Having recently watched through all of DB, I know Toei can put out decent filler stories of their own. That's what makes this crap so inexcusable. It also happens to come right after they stretched out the Freeza arc so unbearably.

Now, I'm not exactly blaming them for Freeza. They did add several filler stories to that fight. The problem was the source material. It just went on uninterrupted for so long that there was no opportunity to really break away and create original content. But I do think it proved to them that DBZ was so popular that they didn't really need to try anymore. That all they needed to do was throw in long stare downs and pointless fighting that doesn't go anywhere, and the fans will put up with it. Either that, or their insistence on putting out two movies a year spread their forces too thin to continue to put out the same level of content.

[DBZAOTA482]

I actually thought it was better written from a storytelling standpoint than most of the Boo Saga and some of the Cyborg/Cell Saga, and I liked how the A-Team got to save the day without Goku's help. I also liked Kuririn's relationship as it made Kuririn getting with #18 much sweeter along with the fact that it was one of the few instances in TOEI-original material where Kuririn's character is done justice. In the movies, he's almost always made to be the butt of the joke.

One problem I noticed (other than it being based on movie that contradicts the source material) is the animation was generally cheaper than usual in the Saga.

[JulieYBM]

That was probably a combination of a lack of time to build up a longer story or due to the lack of available drawings to increase the amount of fighting.

Still no excuse. And increasing the amount of fighting was the last thing it needed. The fighting already choked the entire arc. It needed much, much less fighting. Less recycling of the same animation of Kami and Popo running and jumping to make up for the fact that they're not doing anything. Having recently watched through all of DB, I know Toei can put out decent filler stories of their own. That's what makes this crap so inexcusable. It also happens to come right after they stretched out the Freeza arc so unbearably.

Now, I'm not exactly blaming them for Freeza. They did add several filler stories to that fight. The problem was the source material. It just went on uninterrupted for so long that there was no opportunity to really break away and create original content. But I do think it proved to them that DBZ was so popular that they didn't really need to try anymore. That all they needed to do was throw in long stare downs and pointless fighting that doesn't go anywhere, and the fans will put up with it. Either that, or their insistence on putting out two movies a year spread their forces too thin to continue to put out the same level of content.

The fighting wasn't the problem, it was the lack of talent put into the fighting. If it has been nine episodes of Wakabayashi Atsushi, Nishio Tetsuya and others I doubt anyone would be complaining.

The production schedule during the Namek arc was in disarray (look no further than Episode #102 using Toei key animators, a Last House animation supervisor, and Kino Production for in-betweens), so it's no surprise these episodes took some sort of beating. Sumisawa Katsuyuki wrote all nine episodes with Garlic Junior, so the arc was probably his baby more so than anything else.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm of the opinion that no amount of flashy animation can save a weak story. Would it have helped? Definitely. But without the story keeping you invested in the fighting, it's ultimately just a bunch of pointless special effects.

[Hellspawn28]

The Garlic Jr saga is a chore to sit through. I find it to be dull as hell and the saga has nothing really good to offer expect for that one scene with Chi Chi going kaioken. The saga was pointless and should have never happen. I like DBZ Movie 1 but Garlic Jr really did not need his own saga.

[Kakacarrottop]

The saga was pointless and should have never happen. I like DBZ Movie 1 but Garlic Jr really did not need his own saga.

The fanbase probably would have been more alienated if they gave the saga to some crappy random new character. I'm sure the creators didn't want to make the saga, it's just they had to due to the Manga release issue. They had no choice. That's why it's considered filler, that's why the animation was relatively cheap (they essentially only used 1 or 2 backgrounds the whole saga, Kami's Lookout and Roshi's place) and that's why the whole thing seems so rushed and half-assed. I personally have no major gripes with it, i mean it's just a short little stop gap between the much larger Freeza and Cell arcs.

[mysticboy]

It should've just been a movie imo.

That would have defeated the purpose of it buying the production staff ten weeks for the comic to get ahead of the animated series.

About how long did it usually take for them to make movies back then? Surely the time and production it takes to make nine episodes shouldn't be too much less or more than a high-budget 50-60 minute movie.

[Gaffer Tape]

That's not what he's saying. He means that, by the end of the Freeza arc, the TV series had almost caught up with the manga. If they hadn't put out a filler arc to fill up broadcast slots for a couple of months, they would have run out of material to adapt.