"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by MisteryOne » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:37 am

Dragonballgod19 wrote:
MisteryOne wrote:
Dragonballgod19 wrote:Zamasus trying to run away from Zeno like total bitches hurt my soul My god they really ruined black and zamasu in the manga
You mean because they are not incompetent and useless villains like in the anime version? Then yeah, they are "ruined". Anyway this is not the thread to talk about that. This is mayorly for spoilers of the anime and other announcements regarding Super as a whole.
Useless are you trolling how was black and zamasu useless in anime if anything zamasu was did nothing in manga besides job
I am not trolling at all, are you. Let's see:

-Goku Black
*Anime: Was a pure weakling at first that fought SS2 Goku and only survived because the later didn't go SSBlue, despite Black wanting him to go at full power. If Goku had done so, he would be dead. Plan Zero Mortals failed. Later, we found out that he has been unable to kill all the Earthlings. He also failed the blast he fired against Mai, which is something laughlable. He is surpassed by fucking smoke bombs despite the fact that he could spread all the smoke by powering up. MOST IMPORTANT THING: Before Goku and Vegeta return for a second time to the future, he defeats Goku, who is somehow saved by Yajirobe, who Black was unable to kill. Then, Earth is in danger. Goku and Vegeta are in the past, Trunks is defeated, what will Black do now that he has IT and can kill all the earthlings in an instant? Drink tea with Future Zamasu and talks about the plan that is failing because he is sitting there instead of killing the Earthlinga. Later their plan fails, because of an stupid Deus Ex Machina bullshit, the power of plot, and the most important thing: because he didn't kill the rest of the earthlings earlier, when he could do it perfectly. He later fuses with Zamasu without a true reason at all, since he was taking care of Goku and Vegeta alone. Then the fusion nonsensically mutates and that makes the plan fail. Again, incompetence. Also, he never saw the entire U6 tournament and didn't know about the Kaioken. Had he used it, the plan would have been a sucess.

Manga: Unlike in the anime, he was able to hunt down Trunks. He just didn't kill him in order to get stronger and archive Super Saiyan Blue (Rosé in his case) which he did by fighting Vegeta. He didn't risked the plan and wasn't an incompetent. Killed all the Earthlings while Goku, Vegeta and Trunks were out. Tried to trick and kill Gowasu and failed because of Trunk's healing power.

-Future Zamasu
*Anime: Constant jobber that was never a threat in the first place. Constantly being knocked out by the Saiyans. Terrible writed villain who becomes evil after 20 seconds, when an unknow mortal appears, kills his master and claims: «I'm here for the sake of justice!» It took Zamasu only some seconds to hug him. What is this, love at first sigh? Didn't seem to know about Zeno.

Manga: Actual threat who defeated Goku on their first battle actually using his powers and abilities like the Shinjin he is. He actually feels like a threat that needs Mafuba to beat him. In the anime they could have just used him as a punching bag since he always jobbed. Suggested to eliminate all of the Earthlings and move to another planet before Zeno notices them, which they were going to do before Gowasu, Shin, Mai and Trunks reappeared.

-Merged Zamasu
*He is surpased by SSB Goku who previously was oneshoted by Goku Black. Mutates and fights SSB Vegito. Is forced to bulk up and then he is unable to oneshot Trunks, even before the latter used the nonsensical Gendikama. Then he is killed by the power of Trunks+exhausted Goku and Vegeta+ a turtle+ a cat+ around 20/30 people. He needed to fuse with the universe to kill a bunch of random Earthlings, with an attack so weak it's stopped by Kaioshin and Gowasu's shield. He is then stopped by Zeno.

Manga: Jobs to Vegito Blue, the fights even with Mastered SSB Goku, way stronger than Goku Black, and manages to have a great fight. He even survives Hakai by using Mai. Even when he is cut down in half by Trunks, he reveals that what he was saying during his first fight with Vegeta is indeed true, and now that his cells have completely fused with his body, becomes and army of himself. Destroyed by Zeno


The Merged Zamasu's army fleeing from the strongest, most powerful being in the Multiverse doesn't make them competent at all. In fact, is the logical choice. Had the Zamasu duo have some common sense in the anime, they would have won. Manga Zamasu only failed because he was not strong enough, not because he was an incompetent moron who didn't take his opportunities.
English is not my first language. Please excuse my gramatical mistakes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:40 am

ArchedThunder wrote:
TheMikado wrote: If their plan is to kill every mortal and it's taken them that long just to kill Trunks/Mai. I'd imagine every other mortal would have to be dead for their plan to be completed "today". It may not be explicit but it seems implied.
They had just become an incredibly powerful god, he could probably do it in a day, or at the very least he probably believed he could.
Besides, they were also using Trunks to power up Black.
There's no way, it still takes Whis some time to travel between universes and if even if they were teleporting they would still need to find every single mortal in the universe on every planet. Including the ones hiding out. They weren't omniscient to my knowledge so I don't see how they could have hoped to accomplish that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Araki » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:42 am

No matter how much Toyotaro fanboys try to cover it, Black/Zamasu were absolutely pathetic in the manga until the very end. It's clear that they wouldn't be as popular if there was only the manga. That's not even debatable.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:42 am

The only thing Anime Black has over Manga Black is that he's voiced by Masako Nozawa.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:45 am

Kanassa wrote:
Noah wrote:
Kanassa wrote:You're assuming that 17 years into the future those characters would still be a problem.
Would they not? Or you're assuming age is a factor? I still think it's a plot hole, but people uses Zamasu's immortality as excuse to how they defeated that guy, even so I think it would take years, maybe decades and Goku Black should already unlocked Rosé, by so many battles he fought.
It's 17 years into the future (In the timeline that's constantly fucked over no matter the continuity), literally anything could have happened. It's not a plot hole if it doesn't contradict anything, it's simply an unexplored area.
So in 17 years everyone in every single universe is weaker than Black/Zamasu? I not saying that can't be the case, and its not a problem, but Iike I said it doesn't get weird until we see all the contestants and angels and Gods gathered around each other. Even then its not a big deal, but then someone wanted to do a comparison between the manga and anime as far as the manga version being incompetent or less of a threat and not making sense. But when you start breaking each scenario down within its own lore or generates more unanswered questions than the other.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:49 am

Araki wrote:No matter how much Toyotaro fanboys try to cover it, Black/Zamasu were absolutely pathetic in the manga until the very end. It's clear that they wouldn't be as popular if there was only the manga. That's not even debatable.
DBZ Macky wrote:The only thing Anime Black has over Manga Black is that he's voiced by Masako Nozawa.
Opinions, how do they work?

Look each has some positives and negatives.
Anime Black and Zamasu were far more entertaining than the manga version at the expense of a lot of logic even within the series. Things like the casual loop and other things just have to be ignored.
By contrast things were more logically and thought out in the manga, but much more bland and boring.

It just depends on what you find entertaining. One is a big action popcorn flick, the other a more thought out drama.
We have fanboys on either side claiming their preferred version is BOTH Logical AND Entertaining when the truth is each only manages to excel at one of these traits.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:52 am

DBZ Macky wrote:The only thing Anime Black has over Manga Black is that he's voiced by Masako Nozawa.
Hahaha that's quite true for me as well..
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:56 am

TheMikado wrote: Opinions, how do they work?
Objectively, my opinion usurps your opinion as my opinion is backed up by what I think the objective standard that all people below me should hold everything to. Bla bla bla, Prince of all Saiyans.

And that is how opinions work.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:59 am

TheMikado wrote:
Araki wrote:No matter how much Toyotaro fanboys try to cover it, Black/Zamasu were absolutely pathetic in the manga until the very end. It's clear that they wouldn't be as popular if there was only the manga. That's not even debatable.
DBZ Macky wrote:The only thing Anime Black has over Manga Black is that he's voiced by Masako Nozawa.
Opinions, how do they work?
100% agreed. Alongside posts like this:
Dragonballgod19 wrote:Are you serious!oh wait....your just a vegeta hater and a hit fanboy I'm done and when hit jobs next episode I'm going to be spamming you and roasting hit and how pathetic he is hope your ready :)
These kinds of posts just aren't acceptable. Don't complain about being unable to take people seriously when your own post is written so poorly (on various levels) that it can't be taken seriously. Strive for something more. Account strikes can and will be issued; these are not something you want.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:09 am

I apologize if my post was written a bit poorly. I do like both versions of Black, it's just that the Ms. Nozawa's voice just brings life to the character and its absence is a big loss for Manga Black.

I believe that another loss Manga Black faced was the absence of the mystery surrounding him in the Anime version. The Manga completely threw that aspect away, and it was probably the right thing to do, since most of us already knew the secret of Black's identity.

I have a feeling that if the Manga version came before the Anime, then Manga Black would be a lot more appreciated.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Dragonballgod19 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:21 am

VegettoEX wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Araki wrote:No matter how much Toyotaro fanboys try to cover it, Black/Zamasu were absolutely pathetic in the manga until the very end. It's clear that they wouldn't be as popular if there was only the manga. That's not even debatable.
DBZ Macky wrote:The only thing Anime Black has over Manga Black is that he's voiced by Masako Nozawa.
Opinions, how do they work?
100% agreed. Alongside posts like this:
Dragonballgod19 wrote:Are you serious!oh wait....your just a vegeta hater and a hit fanboy I'm done and when hit jobs next episode I'm going to be spamming you and roasting hit and how pathetic he is hope your ready :)
These kinds of posts just aren't acceptable. Don't complain about being unable to take people seriously when your own post is written so poorly (on various levels) that it can't be taken seriously. Strive for something more. Account strikes can and will be issued; these are not something you want.
What anime black has a lot of things over manga black
-personality
-techniques
-power growth(this made him a huge threat)
-isn't stupid like his manga counterpart and really just really dude?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Dragonballgod19 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:24 am

Honestly goku black personality in the anime was so much better than the manga version same with zamasu and there teamwork was far better too they made goku and vegeta run into the past 3 times no villain has ever done that

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:44 am

Dragonballgod19 wrote: What anime black has a lot of things over manga black
-personality
-techniques
-power growth(this made him a huge threat)
-isn't stupid like his manga counterpart
As a Counter to this.

-Personality - Agreed. I don't think there is a lot of argument there.

-Techniques - Probably one of the most debated. Some people loved seeing the character pull all kinds of Tricks out of their @SS with no explanation. Others hated it. Particular with the main cast, when they did do something unexpected such as Vegeta bursting SSB and using SSG, it was explained what, why, and how.

-Power Growth - This is consistent in both as being pretty terrible. Most likely because they had to somehow make Vegeta Job to Black, then come back and beat him up again. Ala Vegeta/18/semi perfect Cell. It was dumb and probably part of the outline. Toyo also inserted Toriyama's note about SSJ Black which further screwed him while the Anime and Toei ignored it.
However, at least we got a clear understanding of what SSR is, which is the SSB counterpart, not SSJ as Black has both transformations.

-isn't stupid like his manga counterpart- Highly debatable considering the number of time these guys managed to get away. There's other tidbits here and there how ever I thought most who experienced both media wouldn't be giving anime Black and Zamasu the Einstein award.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:53 am

Well, if we're talking about techniques: anime Goku Black uses Divine Lasso, while manga Goku Black doesn't. That should be enough to rank him above. Actually I can't even remember one single move manga Goku Black has done and that was interesting. Did he ever come up with a new technique in the manga?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Dragonballgod19 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:02 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Dragonballgod19 wrote: What anime black has a lot of things over manga black
-personality
-techniques
-power growth(this made him a huge threat)
-isn't stupid like his manga counterpart
As a Counter to this.

-Personality - Agreed. I don't think there is a lot of argument there.

-Techniques - Probably one of the most debated. Some people loved seeing the character pull all kinds of Tricks out of their @SS with no explanation. Others hated it. Particular with the main cast, when they did do something unexpected such as Vegeta bursting SSB and using SSG, it was explained what, why, and how.

-Power Growth - This is consistent in both as being pretty terrible. Most likely because they had to somehow make Vegeta Job to Black, then come back and beat him up again. Ala Vegeta/18/semi perfect Cell. It was dumb and probably part of the outline. Toyo also inserted Toriyama's note about SSJ Black which further screwed him while the Anime and Toei ignored it.
However, at least we got a clear understanding of what SSR is, which is the SSB counterpart, not SSJ as Black has both transformations.

-isn't stupid like his manga counterpart- Highly debatable considering the number of time these guys managed to get away. There's other tidbits here and there how ever I thought most who experienced both media wouldn't be giving anime Black and Zamasu the Einstein award.
Completely agree for the most part how about merged zamasu

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Dragonballgod19 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:06 pm

Grimlock wrote:Well, if we're talking about techniques: anime Goku Black uses Divine Lasso, while manga Goku Black doesn't. That should be enough to rank him above. Actually I can't even remember one single move manga Goku Black has done and that was interesting. Did he ever come up with a new technique in the manga?
No he didn't

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Basako » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:14 pm

Grimlock wrote:Well, if we're talking about techniques: anime Goku Black uses Divine Lasso, while manga Goku Black doesn't. That should be enough to rank him above. Actually I can't even remember one single move manga Goku Black has done and that was interesting. Did he ever come up with a new technique in the manga?
In the Manga he uses various techniques, like the ki sword, the Kamehameha, big destruction ki balls, small ones, trapping Trunks inside his ki and crashing him against the buildings, that I recall now.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:15 pm

Dragonballgod19 wrote:
Grimlock wrote:Well, if we're talking about techniques: anime Goku Black uses Divine Lasso, while manga Goku Black doesn't. That should be enough to rank him above. Actually I can't even remember one single move manga Goku Black has done and that was interesting. Did he ever come up with a new technique in the manga?
No he didn't
Does him throwing Trunks through multiple fucking buildings like a bad-ass and actually using his Kaioshin/Godlike techniques (Kiai based attacks) in the Manga count? What even is "Divine Lasso"? It's neither a Goku-oriented technique, nor is it a Kaioshin-oriented one. I mean it's cool AF, but it just comes outta left field.

One of the reasons why I love the Super Manga more is because it is a lot more consistent than the Anime, and I love the homages and references. Kiais have always been associated with Kami/Piccolo in the 23rd Budokai and all. So having it return as an integral part of Zamasu's (and by extension, Black's) move-pool was pretty neat.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:28 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:
Dragonballgod19 wrote:
Grimlock wrote:Well, if we're talking about techniques: anime Goku Black uses Divine Lasso, while manga Goku Black doesn't. That should be enough to rank him above. Actually I can't even remember one single move manga Goku Black has done and that was interesting. Did he ever come up with a new technique in the manga?
No he didn't
Does him throwing Trunks through multiple fucking buildings like a bad-ass and actually using his Kaioshin/Godlike techniques (Kiai based attacks) in the Manga count? What even is "Divine Lasso"? It's neither a Goku-oriented technique, nor is it a Kaioshin-oriented one. I mean it's cool AF, but it just comes outta left field.

One of the reasons why I love the Super Manga more is because it is a lot more consistent than the Anime, and I love the homages and references. Kiais have always been associated with Kami/Piccolo in the 23rd Budokai and all. So having it return as an integral part of Zamasu's (and by extension, Black's) move-pool was pretty neat.
Yeah this is kinda what we're getting at. Merged Zamasu's move set is a combination of Goku's and Zamasu's as a kaioshin. In that way it's particularly interesting because he combines these attacks much like fusion Vegetto does. Just is being consistent with that type of fusion. The fusion dance seems to have the fused character invent more unique moves which are from neither fusees skill set.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:41 pm

Oh boy, it begins. Really dreading what's going to happen when this weekend's episode drops. :crazy:

I wasn't crazy about the action scenes in a lot of the manga chapters, but I did think there were some very nice character moments, especially between Trunks/Mai/Vegeta. As a matter of fact, I would say Trunks' relationships with his father and Mai were a big highlight in both versions!

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