"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

17 barely even fought SSJ3 Goku, you can hardly conclude they're on the same level.

Goku's choice of transformation is the conclusion. Toyotarõ didn't have Goku turn SSJ3 just because. It's the classic Dragon Ball visual representation to give us a power scale.
I also didn't write level but realm which throws a much wider net because the fight was interrupted.

[TheUltimateNinja]

17 barely even fought SSJ3 Goku, you can hardly conclude they're on the same level.

He's stronger, if anything. Goku pussied out once he saw #17's energy sphere.

Looked kind of pathetic and OOC, wish he went God instead of stopping the fight there, it'd give us a better idea of 17's power too.

[TheUltimateNinja]

17 barely even fought SSJ3 Goku, you can hardly conclude they're on the same level.

Goku's choice of transformation is the conclusion. Toyotarõ didn't have Goku turn SSJ3 just because. It's the classic Dragon Ball visual representation to give us a power scale.
I also didn't write level but realm which throws a much wider net because the fight was interrupted.

You could make the argument that that's the narrative intent, but in universe 17 could be far stronger and there's nothing contradicting it. He was holding back to whatever level Goku was using and clearly had power to spare against SSJ3 Goku, plus Goku can't even feel his ki so he has no way of gauging his true strength, if he hadn't stopped the fight he may have been forced to transform even further. Toyo probably did intend to use that as a demonstration of power but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be God level anyway.

[LightBing]

17 barely even fought SSJ3 Goku, you can hardly conclude they're on the same level.

Goku's choice of transformation is the conclusion. Toyotarõ didn't have Goku turn SSJ3 just because. It's the classic Dragon Ball visual representation to give us a power scale.
I also didn't write level but realm which throws a much wider net because the fight was interrupted.

You could make the argument that that's the narrative intent, but in universe 17 could be far stronger and there's nothing contradicting it. He was holding back to whatever level Goku was using and clearly had power to spare against SSJ3 Goku, plus Goku can't even feel his ki so he has no way of gauging his true strength, if he hadn't stopped the fight he may have been forced to transform even further. Toyo probably did intend to use that as a demonstration of power but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be God level anyway.

He could be stronger, far stronger just goes against the whole point of the scene which is establishing #17 new power. Goku was gauging his power, note that he went from Base to SSJ2 to SSJ3. You can see one's movements and feel his punches to guess one's strength, this happened in the Android arc with those fighting and observing the Androids.

The idea that #17 is God level is to me ridiculous. Besides making the whole fighting useless it also ridicules SSJ God. Something the manga has respected, the line "this is a level I never imagined existed" uttered by Goku after the ritual actually matters in the manga.

[TKA]

Really neat chapter.

1. That Yamcha joke was in good taste. They just forgot about him instead of shitting on him for being weak or undependable.

2. Very nice to see a day in the home life of Krillin, Maron and 18. Really "humanizes" them, for lack of a better term. Also, nice to see her relationship with 17, since she doesn't even seem to care that he was on the news or whatever, and then we see she just ditches him later in the chapter. Good character dynamics at play.

3. Speaking of which, nice pathos added to 17's character. That Krillin thing is a neat way to add some layers to his character, instead of "I'm so stoic and badass". That's boring. This 17 feels like a person.

4. Power levels blah blah blah. Glad this made it clear as day that Goku wasn't trying his best and the fight never got really intense. That's some well-needed context. If characters are as strong as they need to be from scene to scene, it's impossible to build tension. We need more of this where the manga makes it clear how the characters stack up to each other.

Toyotaro is doing good work all-around.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Goku's choice of transformation is the conclusion. Toyotarõ didn't have Goku turn SSJ3 just because. It's the classic Dragon Ball visual representation to give us a power scale.
I also didn't write level but realm which throws a much wider net because the fight was interrupted.

You could make the argument that that's the narrative intent, but in universe 17 could be far stronger and there's nothing contradicting it. He was holding back to whatever level Goku was using and clearly had power to spare against SSJ3 Goku, plus Goku can't even feel his ki so he has no way of gauging his true strength, if he hadn't stopped the fight he may have been forced to transform even further. Toyo probably did intend to use that as a demonstration of power but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be God level anyway.

He could be stronger, far stronger just goes against the whole point of the scene which is establishing #17 new power. Goku was gauging his power, note that he went from Base to SSJ2 to SSJ3. You can see one's movements and feel his punches to guess one's strength, this happened in the Android arc with those fighting and observing the Androids.

The idea that #17 is God level is to me ridiculous. Besides making the whole fighting useless it also ridicules SSJ God. Something the manga has respected, the line "this is a level I never imagined existed" uttered by Goku after the ritual actually matters in the manga.

But Goku didn't see 17 go all out. Furthermore, SSGod already became a joke when Goku still had to put some effrot into beating Kale and Caulifla with it and Kefla easily destroyed it in base, the same thing will most likely happen in the manga.

[LightBing]

But Goku didn't see 17 go all out. Furthermore, SSGod already became a joke when Goku still had to put some effrot into beating Kale and Caulifla with it and Kefla easily destroyed it in base, the same thing will most likely happen in the manga.

You're bring something that happened in the anime to this conversation, when I specified how nothing of that sort ever happened in the manga, even when it's become common in the anime. Predicting the manga to break it's pattern isn't an argument. Seriously you're using the imagined future to justify the now...

Yeah, let's stop it here.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But Goku didn't see 17 go all out. Furthermore, SSGod already became a joke when Goku still had to put some effrot into beating Kale and Caulifla with it and Kefla easily destroyed it in base, the same thing will most likely happen in the manga.

You're bring something that happened in the anime to this conversation, when I specified how nothing of that sort ever happened in the manga, even when it's become common in the anime. Predicting the manga to break it's pattern isn't an argument. Seriously you're using the imagined future to justify the now...

Yeah, let's stop it here.

Kefla forcing Goku back into UI seems like a pretty important plot point that would be in the outline, that being the case her SSJ2 should outclass Mastered SSBlue which allowed Goku to contend with Merged Zamasu who could fodderize regular SSBlues, through scaling alone Base Kefla should be God level.

Setting that aside, the manga implies even Base Vegetto is above SSBlue, so it's not like there's no precedent.

[Doctor.]

But Goku didn't see 17 go all out. Furthermore, SSGod already became a joke when Goku still had to put some effrot into beating Kale and Caulifla with it and Kefla easily destroyed it in base, the same thing will most likely happen in the manga.

You're bring something that happened in the anime to this conversation, when I specified how nothing of that sort ever happened in the manga, even when it's become common in the anime. Predicting the manga to break it's pattern isn't an argument. Seriously you're using the imagined future to justify the now...

Yeah, let's stop it here.

Kefla forcing Goku back into UI seems like a pretty important plot point that would be in the outline, that being the case her SSJ2 should outclass Mastered SSBlue which allowed Goku to contend with Merged Zamasu who could fodderize regular SSBlues, through scaling alone Base Kefla should be God level.

Setting that aside, the manga implies even Base Vegetto is above SSBlue, so it's not like there's no precedent.

Kefla could always asspull Blue to force Goku into UI. Certainly wouldn't put it past Toyotaro.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Kefla could always asspull Blue to force Goku into UI. Certainly wouldn't put it past Toyotaro.

People would probably pat him on the back for 'explaining' it too.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Chapter 31-

Okay chapter.

As expected Toyotaro is rushing this part. I can't blame him, but as someone who liked Krillin's build-up return as martial artist and his recruitment episode, having nothing of that here disappoints me.

Buu doesn't even wake up in this version. I guess it's official. If it wasn't for Toei, Buu still hadn't fought since DBZ.

The best things are Uub and C17/C18 flashback. The latter is something I would like the anime to have shown. The detail of C17 being grateful to Krillin is a nice touch.
Goku's interaction with the poachers was cool too.

Goku vs C17 was lame. Probably the worst fight of the arc so far.
I also don't like that generic ki ball C17 did in the end. It doesn't fit his fighting style and it's just like what Beerus did 3 chapters ago, which looks like what Kid Buu did back then.

I hope Toyotaro gets more creative when ToP comes, instead of giving generic ki blasts to all new characters. He did an awesome job with the GoDs battle royal, even though that animated without filler wouldn't be longer than 15 minutes...

Anyway, he seems to be improving and the increased number of pages by chapters plays a key role in that. I'm curious to see the rest.

Something I will always love in the manga is the blood and how Toyotaro usually gives new casual clothes to the characters.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I hope Toyotaro gets more creative

Don't count on it.

[Doctor.]

I hope Toyotaro gets more creative

Don't count on it.

What, not a fan of throwing Katchin blocks?

[The gr]

As expected Toyotaro is rushing this part. I can't blame him, but as someone who liked Krillin's build-up return as martial artist and his recruitment episode, having nothing of that here disappoints me.

It doesn't feel rushed here,if it was he would have just summed that recruitment in 1 pages similar on how he skipped F.Suck that toyo didn't show F,the scene where roshi motivated him could have been the best way to put him back to shape,the anime did this but they repeated it three time.

I hope Toyotaro gets more creative

Don't count on it.

What, not a fan of throwing Katchin blocks?

Hey man cards,eye laser,tail ki and bow were cool even trough we only saw a glimpse of it.

The idea of block were ok but toyo used it badly,it could lead to great choreography like with the portals if used correctly & honestly that what matter if the gimmick are used well.

[HeroR]

I hope Toyotaro gets more creative

Don't count on it.

What, not a fan of throwing Katchin blocks?

The Katchin blocks wasn't the problem. It's the fact that Merged Zamasu kept using them even for his final attack against Vegetto Blue like he had no other technique and you're left wondering why didn't he used Katchin spears, saws, or anything lethal. It comes off as a cheap throwback.

[precita]

I don't follow the manga, can anyone tell me if they showed the exhibition matches against Universe 9 or was that skipped over?

[The gr]

I don't follow the manga, can anyone tell me if they showed the exhibition matches against Universe 9 or was that skipped over?

It was replaced by a GoD rumble.The recruitment is mostly the same so far with little differences like jiren,uub appearing,etc.

[jplaya2023]

17 barely even fought SSJ3 Goku, you can hardly conclude they're on the same level.

Goku's choice of transformation is the conclusion. Toyotarõ didn't have Goku turn SSJ3 just because. It's the classic Dragon Ball visual representation to give us a power scale.
I also didn't write level but realm which throws a much wider net because the fight was interrupted.

goku can't sense their energy so maybe he's just being extra careful.

Also 17 being on ssj3 level fighting poachers is a joke. If he was that strong why not help vs buu. He was depicted then as being no use to the z fighters him and 18 now their powerhouses because they "trained"

[micah007]

I also hope Toyo is creative with attacks during the TOP something that the anime has been surprisingly creative with. We've seen characters unleash everything from illusionary techniques to micro black holes and everything in between, I pray it won't be one large ki blast spam (even though that will be a large part of fighting). He's got his work cut out for him to make Goku vs Jiren and the second half of the tournament better than the anime, and I hope he delivers.

[Hawk9211]

I also hope Toyo is creative with attacks during the TOP something that the anime has been surprisingly creative with. We've seen characters unleash everything from illusionary techniques to micro black holes and everything in between, I pray it won't be one large ki blast spam (even though that will be a large part of fighting). He's got his work cut out for him to make Goku vs Jiren and the second half of the tournament better than the anime, and I hope he delivers.

Well,he did have portals,katchin blocks,zamasu's ability to teleport things,ki cards,bow etc.I expect most people to have generic ki blasts but a few people with more fleshed out powers.