"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

I'm going to laugh if Toyotaro fires back at some accusing him of tracing just cause the pose is very similar.

[JazzMazz]

I'm going to laugh if Toyotaro fires back at some accusing him of tracing just cause the pose is very similar.

No ones accusing Toyo of being a tracer, simply because the pose is similar. People are accusing Toyo of being a tracer because, beyond the pose being similar, some of the linework is literally 1:1. I don't think its that hard to understand.

I think we all need to just accept that Toyo did something he probably shouldn't have, probably out of naivity.

I think thats all there is to it. I don't really think this is really going to escalate though, nor should it.

[Miracles]

I'm going to laugh if Toyotaro fires back at some accusing him of tracing just cause the pose is very similar.

No ones accusing Toyo of being a tracer, simply because the pose is similar. People are accusing Toyo of being a tracer because, beyond the pose being similar, some of the linework is literally 1:1. I don't think its that hard to understand.

I think we all need to just accept that Toyo did something he probably shouldn't have, probably out of naivity.

I think thats all there is to it. I don't really think this is really going to escalate though, nor should it.

No it's not going to escalate just cause some nitpickers are kicking and screaming cause they see some of the parts on a similar pose synchronized.
It's understandably laughable, as if using an image as a foundation isn't going to have sections match. It's overblown and most likely won't amount to anything.

[Bergamo]

I heard a rumor that Toriyama is no longer supervising Toyotaro because he's working on the movie. Do you guys think this could be true?

[PsionicWarrior]

Why are you guys still talking about the Toyotaro issue? Ajay's video covered everything perfectly, I'm amazed at how people can deny obvious things even when they're exposed right in their face.

Obvious thing , its a copy of pose , hand and upper part volume.
Unknown if it’s trace , because for example you can draw 2 triangles in separate papers and overlap them being the same .
It’s just a matter of terminology or just say looks like ...
Anyway looks trace and the video has sense , but there’s not enough evidence to assure that sentence.
Only a witness or a film camera can close this case , and I don’t care , just saying , Thank god there’s not death penalty, because there’s a slight chance of false accusations
It’s way more important to reduce some perspective - sizing mistakes that the manga suffers once in a while.
I consider all dragon ball drawings not made by A.T copies , and that’s ok . May be there’s artists that can copy dragon ball better than toyo , but A.T supervise toyo , and that makes his product more dragon ball than the rest I.m.o.

Thank you for that post that speaks more to me than a recent video I've seen on the subject lol

That's still not okay.

Even if the tracing was 100% proved (which to me is not) I think it IS okay,
I mean yes it's "bad", but no need to flame so much for it IMO,
nobody never ever makes mistakes and Toto has done a great job overall with the manga so I'd take it easier lol

I heard a rumor that Toriyama is no longer supervising Toyotaro because he's working on the movie. Do you guys think this could be true?

That would explain a few things about both 35 and 36 lol

[Marlowe89]

I don't really think this is really going to escalate though, nor should it.

It kind of already escalated with the general fanbase. Dexter Soy certainly isn't helping the situation with some of the tweets I've seen from him (particularly his most recent ones), even if I do agree that he's justified in feeling upset about it. It's a total shitshow all around. Welcome to Twitter, I guess.

I feel that it's in Toyotaro's best interest to acknowledge that he copied the image too closely, apologize for it, and promise to do better in the future. It won't take away everyone's pitchforks, but it's the right thing to do at this point and it'll allow the outrage to mostly die down.

[batistabus]

I heard a rumor that Toriyama is no longer supervising Toyotaro because he's working on the movie. Do you guys think this could be true?

No. Toriyama never contributed to the film with a full-time schedule, and at this point, there's likely not much left for him to do at all.

Just re-read this arc for the fun of it, and it reads like a breeze. I'm even more convinced that this pacing is near perfect.

The thing that stood out most negatively for me was how ugly some of the fodder characters' designs are. I know that there was no way Toriyama would design them all himself, but were these guys really the best designs Toei could come up with?

[PsionicWarrior]

^^There's a few panels with serious perspective problems that I doubt Toriyama would have approved, maybe he's following neither closely lol

[Miracles]

^^There's a few panels with serious perspective problems that I doubt Toriyama would have approved, maybe he's following neither closely lol

Do you mean the panel with 17 clearly standing behind Goku while Goku is kneeling and leaning at Damon?

[Analytic]

Do you all think Kafla will still happen in the manga?

[PsionicWarrior]

^^There's a few panels with serious perspective problems that I doubt Toriyama would have approved, maybe he's following neither closely lol

Do you mean the panel with 17 clearly standing behind Goku while Goku is kneeling and leaning at Damon?

That's right, also when 17 hits Botamo earlier lol

[YamiGoku]

I'm going to laugh if Toyotaro fires back at some accusing him of tracing just cause the pose is very similar.

No ones accusing Toyo of being a tracer, simply because the pose is similar. People are accusing Toyo of being a tracer because, beyond the pose being similar, some of the linework is literally 1:1. I don't think its that hard to understand.

I think we all need to just accept that Toyo did something he probably shouldn't have, probably out of naivity.

I think thats all there is to it. I don't really think this is really going to escalate though, nor should it.

No it's not going to escalate just cause some nitpickers are kicking and screaming cause they see some of the parts on a similar pose synchronized.
It's understandably laughable, as if using an image as a foundation isn't going to have sections match. It's overblown and most likely won't amount to anything.

you're entitled to your own opinion, but with all respect, you have any knowledge of this kind of thing? like, youre an artist or draw as a hobby or something? because its easy to just deny what persons with experience and some profesionals are telling you, but in the end of the day their words have more weith, because they are talking from experience and they are telling us and showing us that toyo traced.

[Marlowe89]

Do you all think Kafla will still happen in the manga?

If Vegito was in the manga despite not being a part of the original draft, anything is possible. Given the manga's much faster pacing with the tournament, I'm more inclined to bet "no", but nobody really knows for sure.

[Miracles]

you're entitled to your own opinion, but with all respect, you have any knowledge of this kind of thing? like, youre an artist or draw as a hobby or something? because its easy to just deny what persons with experience and some profesionals are telling you, but in the end of the day their words have more weith, because they are talking from experience and they are telling us and showing us that toyo traced.

I'm not denying their claims. It's just all that "professional weight" doesn't mean much without the truth.
They have what they call examples of evidence but not what actually happened.

[TKA]

The thing that stood out most negatively for me was how ugly some of the fodder characters' designs are

Could not agree fucking more.

The vast majority of these designs are so uninspired, lackluster, overly busy and not reflective of Dragonball's general tone or artstyle. All of the pride troopers, for example, look terrible outside of Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo.

I said it before, but I strongly believe Toei should've just called in some freelance artists and have all of them design 3-4 characters each, then re-draw them into a style closer to dragonball's that can be animated easily and go from there.

[batistabus]

^^There's a few panels with serious perspective problems that I doubt Toriyama would have approved, maybe he's following neither closely lol

Do you mean the panel with 17 clearly standing behind Goku while Goku is kneeling and leaning at Damon?

That's right, also when 17 hits Botamo earlier lol

The No.17/Goku/Damon panel you're referring to is a layering issue. Whoever drew the stage (whether it was Toyotaro or a background artist) forgot to push No. 17's layer to the back of the image. Here is a fixed version.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Since Toriyama only supervises Toyotaro's storyboards/"name", he would not have seen the error in the final version before printing.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of No. 17 vs Botamo.

Do you all think Kafla will still happen in the manga?

Since this was literally cheating, I'm inclined to think not. Still, Zeno's fickle attitude works well enough for the scene, and I liked Kafla well enough. As someone who didn't want Vegetto to make an appearance in the manga, I'm indifferent.

[prince212]

Do you all think Kafla will still happen in the manga?

I don’t know .. it depends how many chapters he’s gonna dedicate to those 2 girls , if it’s just one , I rather no kafla, so we get to know them better separately. Kale was interesting in her manga introduction .
Kafla design can be good to see too.. , but please no Goku Sensei in a survival game .
at the end for me ..more important that what is gonna be show is how is gonna be show , less can be more if that bite fills your taste .
Hit and Ribrianne was less and filled me.
Frost was ... may be too much , but at least was used to make freeza looking better .
Concerning cabba ... that bond with vegeta was kinda forced in the anime , I hope toyo won’t push that much , because break your limits thinking about somebody that just met 2 times was not my favorite moment .

[PsionicWarrior]

The No.17/Goku/Damon panel you're referring to is a layering issue. Whoever drew the stage (whether it was Toyotaro or a background artist) forgot to push No. 17's layer to the back of the image. Here is a fixed version.

Thanks but the issue is that it's not fixed in the actual chapter lol

I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of No. 17 vs Botamo.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This looks very wrong to me lol

[JazzMazz]

The No.17/Goku/Damon panel you're referring to is a layering issue. Whoever drew the stage (whether it was Toyotaro or a background artist) forgot to push No. 17's layer to the back of the image. Here is a fixed version.

Thanks but the issue is that it's not fixed in the actual chapter lol

I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of No. 17 vs Botamo.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This looks very wrong to me lol

Yeah, Toyo really had a problem with perception this chapter. Even cooler stuff like this isn't well executed.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
The foreshortening is really not well done.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
Perspective being weird.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Whatever the hell is going on with Vegeta's muscles here.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And most famously, neck.

[Kenneth La Torre]

About the whole toyo tracing thing, meh.
i think people went to far with this trace thing. He did trace... a draft of captain america, but I'm pretty sure there are no consequences when it comes to a draft that is different from the final product (cause it is). I'm questioning if this would have been a thing if the draft wasnt posted.