"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[superfan2024]

Toriyama barely does anything as far as I’m aware. He basically just gives what the jist of the arc is and does little plot points so both the manga and anime meet at one point and then he allows them to do their own thing for the most part.

I dunno about that. The interview kinda shows Toriyama got into more specifics regarding the arc that Toei chose to ignore, like Merged Zamasu being affected by the Potara retcon and the final fight being between Zamasu and Goku.

I think the anime included the final battle between Zamasu and Goku, but just switched things around. They put the Goku vs Zamasu thing before Vegetto came.

[Meshack]

Toriyama barely does anything as far as I’m aware. He basically just gives what the jist of the arc is and does little plot points so both the manga and anime meet at one point and then he allows them to do their own thing for the most part.

I dunno about that. The interview kinda shows Toriyama got into more specifics regarding the arc that Toei chose to ignore, like Merged Zamasu being affected by the Potara retcon and the final fight being between Zamasu and Goku.

I think the anime included the final battle between Zamasu and Goku, but just switched things around. They put the Goku vs Zamasu thing before Vegetto came.

Yeah. Gokuh and Vegeta versus Zamasu happened then Gokuh versus Zamasu then Vegetto versus Zamasu

[LightBing]

TBH, I think the manga sucking up to Vegeta in the Universe 6 tournament due to him being unable to use his full-power against Hit kind of hurts the arc more than it helps it. That fight is also when sucking up to Vegeta feels the most forced.

Are you high?

No, having Vegeta's loss to Hit come down to "Oh he simply didn't have enough power, if he did he would have kicked Hits arse", pretty much makes Hit a worthless opponent in the manga and makes the point of the arc, showing off how powerful other universes are, completely redundant because nobody can match up to Goku or Vegeta in the slightest because just so strong. How they handled Vegeta's loss in the anime was far better because they didn't cheapen Vegeta's loss by saying "oh he could of won easily if he was at full power", in the anime, Vegeta lost to an opponent that was still weaker than him, but outclassed him using a unique ability, nothing more nothing less. The fact that the manga had to make an excuse for Vegeta's loss, comes off as Toyotaro trying to pander to Vegeta fans.

Where was it said that was the point of the arc? It doesn't seem logical, after all only Hit was at God level. People complained throughout the arc how Goku and Vegeta were easily dispatching of everybody. Even now they added Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo as the only "God Tier" characters. Everybody else are just a bunch of scrubs.

I can also twist your argument, instead of being an excuse for Vegeta's loss it's an excuse for Goku's victory.

There's no sucking up to Vegeta in the manga or everybody else for that matter. I don't consider Goku's "main character bonus" to be sucking up, it's a feature.
"I want each character to shine" these are words from Toyotarõ in the latest interview.

[JazzMazz]

Are you high?

No, having Vegeta's loss to Hit come down to "Oh he simply didn't have enough power, if he did he would have kicked Hits arse", pretty much makes Hit a worthless opponent in the manga and makes the point of the arc, showing off how powerful other universes are, completely redundant because nobody can match up to Goku or Vegeta in the slightest because just so strong. How they handled Vegeta's loss in the anime was far better because they didn't cheapen Vegeta's loss by saying "oh he could of won easily if he was at full power", in the anime, Vegeta lost to an opponent that was still weaker than him, but outclassed him using a unique ability, nothing more nothing less. The fact that the manga had to make an excuse for Vegeta's loss, comes off as Toyotaro trying to pander to Vegeta fans.

Where was it said that was the point of the arc? It doesn't seem logical, after all only Hit was at God level. People complained throughout the arc how Goku and Vegeta were easily dispatching of everybody. Even now they added Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo as the only "God Tier" characters. Everybody else are just a bunch of scrubs.

I can also twist your argument, instead of being an excuse for Vegeta's loss it's an excuse for Goku's victory.

There's no sucking up to Vegeta in the manga or everybody else for that matter. I don't consider Goku's "main character bonus" to be sucking up, it's a feature.
"I want each character to shine" these are words from Toyotarõ in the latest interview.

Why can't it be it both him making an excuse for Vegeta's loss and Goku's victory?

I think the universe 6 tournament in the manga is a perfect example of how you reduce the scope of your setting in order to pander to already established characters. One of the biggest complaints directed to the anime about the universe 6 arc was how it was completely lacking in tension until Hit because Goku and Vegeta could have just gone all out and beaten everyone. The manga makes that problems expotentially worse by having all the characters from universe 6 complete weaklings which has made them a non-factor in the tournament.

[The gr]

Seconded with JazzMazz comment,i just re read u6 in the manga and the excuse of vegeta was just bad and it felt like a bone throw for vegeta fans,i prefer the anime take vegeta vs hit,it made hit a formidable opponent whereas as the manga made his win less impressive.This is the problem with toyotaro is that he make his antagonist or rival weak in comparison to our heroes,just look at chapter 13,19 and 22,i just hope jiren isn't a chump here,they build pretty well in 29 so i will be pissed if vegeta or goku trashed jiren in the first encounter.

[HeroR]

No, having Vegeta's loss to Hit come down to "Oh he simply didn't have enough power, if he did he would have kicked Hits arse", pretty much makes Hit a worthless opponent in the manga and makes the point of the arc, showing off how powerful other universes are, completely redundant because nobody can match up to Goku or Vegeta in the slightest because just so strong. How they handled Vegeta's loss in the anime was far better because they didn't cheapen Vegeta's loss by saying "oh he could of won easily if he was at full power", in the anime, Vegeta lost to an opponent that was still weaker than him, but outclassed him using a unique ability, nothing more nothing less. The fact that the manga had to make an excuse for Vegeta's loss, comes off as Toyotaro trying to pander to Vegeta fans.

Where was it said that was the point of the arc? It doesn't seem logical, after all only Hit was at God level. People complained throughout the arc how Goku and Vegeta were easily dispatching of everybody. Even now they added Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo as the only "God Tier" characters. Everybody else are just a bunch of scrubs.

I can also twist your argument, instead of being an excuse for Vegeta's loss it's an excuse for Goku's victory.

There's no sucking up to Vegeta in the manga or everybody else for that matter. I don't consider Goku's "main character bonus" to be sucking up, it's a feature.
"I want each character to shine" these are words from Toyotarõ in the latest interview.

Why can't it be it both him making an excuse for Vegeta's loss and Goku's victory?

I think the universe 6 tournament in the manga is a perfect example of how you reduce the scope of your setting in order to pander to already established characters. One of the biggest complaints directed to the anime about the universe 6 arc was how it was completely lacking in tension until Hit because Goku and Vegeta could have just gone all out and beaten everyone. The manga makes that problems expotentially worse by having all the characters from universe 6 complete weaklings which has made them a non-factor in the tournament.

I don't think the fights were supposed to be 'tension-filled'. One was a gag fight, another one twisted the whole 'good Freeza', Magetta ended in a gag (it was treated more serious in the anime overall though), and Cabba was character development for Cabba. So taking points off for it being 'no tension' seems to be going against the points of those fights.

[LightBing]

Why can't it be it both him making an excuse for Vegeta's loss and Goku's victory?

I think the universe 6 tournament in the manga is a perfect example of how you reduce the scope of your setting in order to pander to already established characters. One of the biggest complaints directed to the anime about the universe 6 arc was how it was completely lacking in tension until Hit because Goku and Vegeta could have just gone all out and beaten everyone. The manga makes that problems expotentially worse by having all the characters from universe 6 complete weaklings which has made them a non-factor in the tournament.

You're looking at this with foresight, which is misleading. Toyotarõ wrote the tension building up to Hit.

We have the characters giving glares and hyping him, only when the fight between Goku and Hit is almost over is the SSJB weakness revealed. When this happens Hit reveals his full power to finish the fight and survives Goku going Blue.
The fight is immediately over and Hit is revealed to have assassinations techniques he couldn't use, hyping him further.

It's questionable if Vegeta could defeat Hit at his full power without knowing how to counter his time-skip. The arc ends with Hit, Vegeta and Goku as impressive fighters at equal standing, with focus on handling techniques and respective weaknesses.

If you look at the fight in the anime they had make up plot points like Hit "evolving" during the battle just so that he could keep up with powered up Goku and even that didn't work to justify how Hit would keep up with someone that suddenly turned 10x stronger. This fight had absolutely no tension beyond Goku might mess up his body.

[Hawk9211]

Even if it’s early, I think the next chapter is going to be anticlimactic.It will most likely be about rules of the new tournament,other universes reaction etc.

[JazzMazz]

Where was it said that was the point of the arc? It doesn't seem logical, after all only Hit was at God level. People complained throughout the arc how Goku and Vegeta were easily dispatching of everybody. Even now they added Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo as the only "God Tier" characters. Everybody else are just a bunch of scrubs.

I can also twist your argument, instead of being an excuse for Vegeta's loss it's an excuse for Goku's victory.

There's no sucking up to Vegeta in the manga or everybody else for that matter. I don't consider Goku's "main character bonus" to be sucking up, it's a feature.
"I want each character to shine" these are words from Toyotarõ in the latest interview.

Why can't it be it both him making an excuse for Vegeta's loss and Goku's victory?

I think the universe 6 tournament in the manga is a perfect example of how you reduce the scope of your setting in order to pander to already established characters. One of the biggest complaints directed to the anime about the universe 6 arc was how it was completely lacking in tension until Hit because Goku and Vegeta could have just gone all out and beaten everyone. The manga makes that problems expotentially worse by having all the characters from universe 6 complete weaklings which has made them a non-factor in the tournament.

I don't think the fights were supposed to be 'tension-filled'. One was a gag fight, another one twisted the whole 'good Freeza', Magetta ended in a gag (it was treated more serious in the anime overall though), and Cabba was character development for Cabba. So taking points off for it being 'no tension' seems to be going against the points of those fights.

I'm saying it in the sense that we already knew the outcomes of most of the fights, or that most of the fights didn't need to be so dragged out. The point of the tournament in the anime at least was to show that other universes were filled with strong fighters, and that Zeno's tournament was going to be something to look forward to because they would be filled with even more strong fighters like this, basically the arc was to serve as build-up to the Zeno tournament. A lot of the build-up is lost in the manga, because none of the fighters from universe 6 were challenging, they were all pieces of cake to defeat.

You're looking at this with foresight, which is misleading. Toyotarõ wrote the tension building up to Hit.

We have the characters giving glares and hyping him, only when the fight between Goku and Hit is almost over is the SSJB weakness revealed. When this happens Hit reveals his full power to finish the fight and survives Goku going Blue.
The fight is immediately over and Hit is revealed to have assassinations techniques he couldn't use, hyping him further.

It's questionable if Vegeta could defeat Hit at his full power without knowing how to counter his time-skip. The arc ends with Hit, Vegeta and Goku as impressive fighters at equal standing, with focus on handling techniques and respective weaknesses.

If you look at the fight in the anime they had make up plot points like Hit "evolving" during the battle just so that he could keep up with powered up Goku and even that didn't work to justify how Hit would keep up with someone that suddenly turned 10x stronger. This fight had absolutely no tension beyond Goku might mess up his body.

Its clearly stated that Vegeta could have defeated Hit if he hadn't transformed against Cabba, and there is nothing to suggest that he couldn't since Hits time-skip wouldn't work on Blue Vegeta as his roughly equal to Goku. The arc ends with Goku and Vegeta being on equal footing and Hit leaves as a completely unremarkable and unimpressive opponent who Goku and Vegeta completely outclassed and could have defeated relatively easily.

I seriously don't see how you can say they leave on equal standing when Hit was clearly displayed as being completely inferior to Goku and Vegeta.

At no point during Hits fight with Goku did he have any real advantage or chance of winning against Goku due to the structure of that fight involving Goku going through his different forms and we the audience knowing Goku won't be in any trouble unless his struggling in Blue, which he never does. This makes the fight just a matter of the audience waiting for Goku to go blue. The focus of that fight very clearly isn't related to techniques, it was far more about power than it is about strategy or interesting techniques. This means that the fight is relatively tensionless by around about the halfway point when SSG made Hit go full-power. At the point the fight was pretty much already over, as we the audience knew that Goku still had Blue. So where's the tension if the outcome is predictable before the final showdown?

Both versions of the fight do come down to a powering up contest and while I agree the anime is more convoluted, it was also far more unpredictable and tense than what was given in the manga since we the audience didn't know who would be the first to hit their limit and there was no clear cut indication of who was going to win. When they revealed that Hit had assassination techniques in the anime, there was a lot of hype around it, which was met in the mini assassination arc.

The manga doesn't have the time to do that meaning that we'll never see Hit's assassination techniques in the manga, I mean, we might see them but good luck using assassination techniques in a tournament with a no killing rule.

[Kanassa]

Meh, if there is character pandering, it's not something I've really notice. Only time I thought there was pandering was when Vegeta kicked Black's ass upon arrival, which affected Black as a villain and took all power out of the scene of Vegeta kicking Black's ass later.

[LightBing]

Its clearly stated that Vegeta could have defeated Hit if he hadn't transformed against Cabba, and there is nothing to suggest that he couldn't since Hits time-skip wouldn't work on Blue Vegeta as his roughly equal to Goku. The arc ends with Goku and Vegeta being on equal footing and Hit leaves as a completely unremarkable and unimpressive opponent who Goku and Vegeta completely outclassed and could have defeated relatively easily.

I seriously don't see how you can say they leave on equal standing when Hit was clearly displayed as being completely inferior to Goku and Vegeta.

At no point during Hits fight with Goku did he have any real advantage or chance of winning against Goku due to the structure of that fight involving Goku going through his different forms and we the audience knowing Goku won't be in any trouble unless his struggling in Blue, which he never does. This makes the fight just a matter of the audience waiting for Goku to go blue. The focus of that fight very clearly isn't related to techniques, it was far more about power than it is about strategy or interesting techniques. This means that the fight is relatively tensionless by around about the halfway point when SSG made Hit go full-power. At the point the fight was pretty much already over, as we the audience knew that Goku still had Blue. So where's the tension if the outcome is predictable before the final showdown?

Both versions of the fight do come down to a powering up contest and while I agree the anime is more convoluted, it was also far more unpredictable and tense than what was given in the manga since we the audience didn't know who would be the first to hit their limit and there was no clear cut indication of who was going to win. When they revealed that Hit had assassination techniques in the anime, there was a lot of hype around it, which was met in the mini assassination arc.

The manga doesn't have the time to do that meaning that we'll never see Hit's assassination techniques in the manga, I mean, we might see them but good luck using assassination techniques in a tournament with a no killing rule.

You're right, I wasn't remembering Goku's line at the end.

I strongly disagree that was the impression Hit left, his full power is in the same level as Goku and Vegeta. Goku's plan was to end it by turning SSJB and finishing Hit, he failed. Hit weakness was his inability to maintain his full power, meaning Goku would've won had the fight continued.

The audience never knows if Blue will work on Hit's full power until it happens and after that the fight is over. This is Dragon Ball, contrary to many other stories the protagonists lose as many times as they win, it's not given that Goku would triumph in that situation even with Blue.

Yes power is of essential importance. However the whole fight revolves around Goku learning how to counter the time-skip and adds the SSJB weakness a plot point developed further. The fight focuses on the technical aspects, it's like the Hit vs Dyspo fight in the anime.

We probably won't see any assassination techniques that's true, I'm just saying that the manga and the anime both implied Hit still had more to give and that he's weaker because of the limitations of the tournament.

Honestly neither fight was tense to me. In the manga we already knew the outcome of the fight, it basically was only worth it for the differences. In the anime I just couldn't fathom the ridiculous power-scale applied there, it completely sucked out all tension because it was artificial.
I remembered how Goku upped his Kaioken one level t and went from being beaten by Vegeta in the Saiyan Arc to beating his ass.

We kinda detoured from the main point. All this to say that I still disagree about the sucking up to Vegeta fans part and assuming that the 10 times weaker than Goku plot point is from Mr.Toriyama himself.
It shouldn't be permanent, otherwise Toei would have used Kaioken much more in the following arc instead of questionably ignoring it. Vegeta is portrayed as being a rival to Goku, the problem is that the anime has the black cloud of the Kaioken hovering over this idea.

[Noah]

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Love it! Toyotaro is really knock it out of the park in this department.

Really? Cause I think this art is pretty bad, it doesn't look much as DB too me. I despise the way Toyotaro draws Black and Merged Zamasu, is that difficult to portray evil characters without the forced evil smirk? Also the red tone used in the Super Saiyan God hair is bad just as Goku's face in this.

Canon doesn't matter anyway. People aren't going to stop watching just because some people on the internet try to convince them it isn't canon, nor are they going to drop the anime for the manga, if they vastly prefer the anime.
If the anime is liked and succesful, then that's what matters, not its supposedly dubious canonicity status in the franchise.

Exactly. I don't know why people keep with this "non canon/filler is factually bad" mindset in this. Super is not part of the original serialization, but both anime and manga can be entertaining in the same way.

[BrolyKale]

Really? Cause I think this art is pretty bad, it doesn't look much as DB too me. I despise the way Toyotaro draws Black and Merged Zamasu, is that difficult to portray evil characters without the forced evil smirk? Also the red tone used in the Super Saiyan God hair is bad just as Goku's face in this. 

I agree with this. Goku's face doesn't look that good to me... but Vegetto and Rose look good.

[Rebel Instinct]

Honestly neither fight was tense to me. In the manga we already knew the outcome of the fight, it basically was only worth it for the differences. In the anime I just couldn't fathom the ridiculous power-scale applied there, it completely sucked out all tension because it was artificial.
I remembered how Goku upped his Kaioken one level t and went from being beaten by Vegeta in the Saiyan Arc to beating his ass.

We kinda detoured from the main point. All this to say that I still disagree about the sucking up to Vegeta fans part and assuming that the 10 times weaker than Goku plot point is from Mr.Toriyama himself.
It shouldn't be permanent, otherwise Toei would have used Kaioken much more in the following arc instead of questionably ignoring it. Vegeta is portrayed as being a rival to Goku, the problem is that the anime has the black cloud of the Kaioken hovering over this idea.

You're right on about the idea of tension. By it's very nature, the manga is incapable of creating tension. This is something that I feel like a lot of people miss when comparing the impact of the anime and manga. Since the manga is behind the anime in terms of release schedule, we already know how the story is going to ultimately play out. There can be no tension when the major beats of the arc are already known beforehand, so the draw is how those beats are reached. Any complaints about a lack of tension in the manga are hollow.

Honestly, manga Hit only appears weak when compared to the scale set by the anime. However, a 1-1 comparison like that would be disingenuous. The nature of transformations and the entire balance of power is different between the two mediums, so comparing or contrasting the feats of characters between the two either doesn't work or must me done with careful consideration to perspective. SSB Kaio-ken x 10 doesn't exist in the manga, so anyone suggesting that manga Hit is weak because anime Hit stood up to it is judging things incorrecty. The threat posed by manga Hit has to be judged by the limits created by the manga's narrative, rather than the limits created in the anime. SSB Kaio-ken x 10 ballooned the overall power scale of the anime to an absurd degree. Comparing feats in the manga to such a scale just doesn't work.

When taken purely within the context of the manga, Hit is still a monster. At the time, SSB was the pinnacle of Saiyan power. SSB Kaio-ken isn't a thing, so regular SSB fills it's role in the manga. SSG would then fill the role regular SSB did in the anime. The scale is totally different. Even without the use of his killing techniques, Hit still stood up to SSG usng only Timeskip. It took SSB (the peak of power in the manga) to overpower him, an incredible feat by the manga's scale. Even then, Hit still avoided Goku's last attack and was ready to continue fighting until Goku recognized that Hit was being handicapped and rung himself out. Knowing how draining SSB was at that point in the manga, it's uncertain how Goku would've faired had the battle continued. Hit is no joke within the limits of the manga and if he strengthens himself between the Universe 6 tournament and the Tournament of Power, he could easily pose a threat to Completed SSB. Weak, he is not.

[Jigurashi]

Meh, if there is character pandering, it's not something I've really notice. Only time I thought there was pandering was when Vegeta kicked Black's ass upon arrival, which affected Black as a villain and took all power out of the scene of Vegeta kicking Black's ass later.

Have to agree with this. Black became very underwhelming from that point onward. Hitto wasn't used well either. Is Toppo the first non fused fighter to give SSB Goku or Vegeta any difficulty straight up in a first fight?

[Rebel Instinct]

Meh, if there is character pandering, it's not something I've really notice. Only time I thought there was pandering was when Vegeta kicked Black's ass upon arrival, which affected Black as a villain and took all power out of the scene of Vegeta kicking Black's ass later.

Have to agree with this. Black became very underwhelming from that point onward. Hitto wasn't used well either. Is Toppo the first non fused fighter to give SSB Goku or Vegeta any difficulty straight up in a first fight?

I'm curious why Vegeta beating up Super Saiyan Black in their intial fight makes Vegeta's victory in the second trip to the future underwhelming. The catharsis of Vegeta's win is predicated on his prior beatdown, no? While it's true that Vegeta beat up Black in their first encounter, Black wasn't at his best. After receiving his Zenkai and then shortly thereafter achieving Rosé, Black bodied Vegeta so hard, he had to be carried off the battlefield unconscious. If Vegeta hadn't been able to escape to the past and train in the Time Chamber, Rosé Black would've slaughtered him singlehandedly. Black's final beatdown at Vegeta's hand was payback for the beating Black gave him last time they met. Is the catharsis for Vegeta's victory really that badly diminished because he won their very first bout before getting thrashed? It didn't really diminish it for me.

I mean, sure, Black was superior almost the entire time in the anime, but he also had Rosé the entire time in the anime. Black's strength post-Rosé in the manga was just as impressive as the anime until the second trip to the future where both versions were trounced by Vegeta. Black was beaten up by SS2 Goku in the past in their first bout in the anime before he revealed Rosé. Did that diminish his victory when they fought again in the future? The only difference there is that it was Goku who Black fought first instead of Vegeta. Beyond having more time to show off his superiority in the anime with the extra trip to the future, the overall beats are largely the same between the anime and manga.

[TKA]

Honestly neither fight was tense to me. In the manga we already knew the outcome of the fight, it basically was only worth it for the differences. In the anime I just couldn't fathom the ridiculous power-scale applied there, it completely sucked out all tension because it was artificial.
I remembered how Goku upped his Kaioken one level t and went from being beaten by Vegeta in the Saiyan Arc to beating his ass.

We kinda detoured from the main point. All this to say that I still disagree about the sucking up to Vegeta fans part and assuming that the 10 times weaker than Goku plot point is from Mr.Toriyama himself.
It shouldn't be permanent, otherwise Toei would have used Kaioken much more in the following arc instead of questionably ignoring it. Vegeta is portrayed as being a rival to Goku, the problem is that the anime has the black cloud of the Kaioken hovering over this idea.

You're right on about the idea of tension. By it's very nature, the manga is incapable of creating tension. This is something that I feel like a lot of people miss when comparing the impact of the anime and manga. Since the manga is behind the anime in terms of release schedule, we already know how the story is going to ultimately play out. There can be no tension when the major beats of the arc are already known beforehand, so the draw is how those beats are reached. Any complaints about a lack of tension in the manga are hollow.

Honestly, manga Hit only appears weak when compared to the scale set by the anime. However, a 1-1 comparison like that would be disingenuous. The nature of transformations and the entire balance of power is different between the two mediums, so comparing or contrasting the feats of characters between the two either doesn't work or must me done with careful consideration to perspective. SSB Kaio-ken x 10 doesn't exist in the manga, so anyone suggesting that manga Hit is weak because anime Hit stood up to it is judging things incorrecty. The threat posed by manga Hit has to be judged by the limits created by the manga's narrative, rather than the limits created in the anime. SSB Kaio-ken x 10 ballooned the overall power scale of the anime to an absurd degree. Comparing feats in the manga to such a scale just doesn't work.

When taken purely within the context of the manga, Hit is still a monster. At the time, SSB was the pinnacle of Saiyan power. SSB Kaio-ken isn't a thing, so regular SSB fills it's role in the manga. SSG would then fill the role regular SSB did in the anime. The scale is totally different. Even without the use of his killing techniques, Hit still stood up to SSG usng only Timeskip. It took SSB (the peak of power in the manga) to overpower him, an incredible feat by the manga's scale. Even then, Hit still avoided Goku's last attack and was ready to continue fighting until Goku recognized that Hit was being handicapped and rung himself out. Knowing how draining SSB was at that point in the manga, it's uncertain how Goku would've faired had the battle continued. Hit is no joke within the limits of the manga and if he strengthens himself between the Universe 6 tournament and the Tournament of Power, he could easily pose a threat to Completed SSB. Weak, he is not.

Very well-reasoned, well-articulated post.

The fact that I agree with most of it has little role.

You're off to a good start.

[Rebel Instinct]

Very well-reasoned, well-articulated post.

The fact that I agree with most of it has little role.

You're off to a good start.

Thanks! It's kinda something I've been stewing on for a while, but I haven't really had anywhere to post it.

I'm a longtime lurker, but first time poster. I hope I put my best foot forward!

[emperior]

I’ve been re-reading the manga lately and, honestly, Toyotaro must fix his necks as soon as possible. Black in particular looks like shit, because of that enormous neck of his and that stupid grin Toyotaro always gives him.
Just look at Volume 4 cover to see what I’m talking about. Merged Zamasu is the major offender as he doesn’t even have a neck, he only has muscles where his neck should be for how Toyotaro draws him.
The guy always checks Toriyama’s manga, how come he doesn’t realize he is getting necks wrong?! And when he draws SSG, he actually makes the neck thinner, this shows that Toyotaro can draw necks but he doesn’t realize he is messing them up. I hope someone will point it out to him. I like his art by the way, he’s definitely improved in these years, but he absolutely needs to fix the anatomy of his characters.

Apart from the necks, the callbacks and the homages, I also dislike how he had Bulma and co. discuss time travel before Trunks even appeared. It was quite stupid.

[kemuri07]

Just got through the latest chapter of the manga:

This does a far and a way better job of establishing the stakes during the tournament than the anime does. By not only allowing us to see how the Gods fight each other, but forcing Goku to go through all of his transformations just to keep up with Toppo, and then having him lose anyways, gives us a better understanding of what Goku is up against in the tournament. As opposed to Goku fucking around for 10+ episodes until we finally get a fight between him and Jiren.