Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[JazzMazz]

Has there been any other interesting information released with the translation of chapter 29.

For now, all I've seen is from the translations is that MSSB Goku=<Toppo and Jiren>Belmond.

[Sora Saiyan]

Has there been any other interesting information released with the translation of chapter 29.

For now, all I've seen is from the translations is that MSSB Goku=<Toppo and Jiren>Belmond.

Toppo has God Ki.

Toppo (suppressed) handles all of the regular SSJ forms with no difficulty at all.

The gap between SSJG seems to be much greater than the gap between all of the regular SSJ forms as Goku states the fight will be on "an entirely different level" immediately before becoming God.
Before this the power gap between the SSJ forms werent really noticeable.

Toppo powers up after realising that SSJG is the real deal, Prior to this Toppo (suppressed) said SSJ3 was "wasting his time".

Beerus states that Goku is a match for Toppo now he's in the God form.

Goku let his guard down when Toppo knocked him out, and Toppo doubts that he would've won against Blue if not for the counter.

[JazzMazz]

Has there been any other interesting information released with the translation of chapter 29.

For now, all I've seen is from the translations is that MSSB Goku=<Toppo and Jiren>Belmond.

Toppo has God Ki.

Toppo (suppressed) handles all of the regular SSJ forms with no difficulty at all.

The gap between SSJG seems to be much greater than the gap between all of the regular SSJ forms as Goku states the fight will be on "an entirely different level" immediately before becoming God.
Before this the power gap between the SSJ forms werent really noticeable.

Toppo powers up after realising that SSJG is the real deal, Prior to this Toppo (suppressed) said SSJ3 was "wasting his time".

Beerus states that Goku is a match for Toppo now he's in the God form.

Goku let his guard down when Toppo knocked him out, and Toppo doubts that he would've won against Blue if not for the counter.

So, SSG is massively strong than 3, and Blue would've beaten Toppo if he didn't counter?

I think this definitely leads more towards the idea that Goku is only a bit stronger than he is in the Buu arc and the God transformations are what put them on another level.

Its also good to see that SSG is still relevant, namely because its a really cool-looking form. Also, the gap between SSG and SSB doesn't seem to be that big.

[Sora Saiyan]

So, SSG is massively strong than 3, and Blue would've beaten Toppo if he didn't counter?

I think this definitely leads more towards the idea that Goku is only a bit stronger than he is in the Buu arc and the God transformations are what put them on another level.

Its also good to see that SSG is still relevant, namely because its a really cool-looking form. Also, the gap between SSG and SSB doesn't seem to be that big.

Yes SSJG is much greater than 3, Goku as a SSJ3 even says "what's going on? My transformations are useless" and that's against a suppressed Toppo. God puts him equal to Toppos true power.
And judging by what Toppo said it does seem like Blue probably would've won, but Toppo only says he doesn't know if he could've won. Judging by his showing against God it seems like Blue would've definitely won IMO.

[Bullza]

Viz has now translated the chapter so here's some comments to make.

- Rumsshi has the most powerful lungs in all the universes. He was able to briefly paralyse some of the Gods of Destruction and knocked out those at the Supreme Kai level. Goku said he couldn't feel anything but was never knocked out so as mentioned he is above them.

- Beerus and Quitela were the last two standing (not including Belmod who was playing possum) and Quitela seemed to know Beerus would be one of the last standing.

- Grand Priest stopped Beerus and Quitela's punches with a finger.

- Goku isn't confident in fighting a God of Destruction. He's probably weaker than them all.

- Goku says he can't sense the power of Toppo or the Gods of Destruction. That conflicts with the anime where he was supposed to be at a level he could sense God Ki.

- Super Saiyan 3 Goku can't land a hand on a suppressed Toppo.

- Goku turns into a Super Saiyan God. The other Gods seem amazed. Toppo powers up, he might have God Ki, I think that's what he was getting at.

- Beerus says Goku is a match for Toppo as a Super Saiyan God.

- Goku turns Blue and loses in one attack but Toppo actually says that he let his guard down and that if he hadn't countered the attack didn't think he would have won. So perhaps they actually are equal or on par like how was portrayed in the anime after all.

- Toppo says that based on combat skill alone he is stronger than Belmod.

[JazzMazz]

Viz has now translated the chapter so here's some comments to make.

- Rumsshi has the most powerful lungs in all the universes. He was able to briefly paralyse some of the Gods of Destruction and knocked out those at the Supreme Kai level. Goku said he couldn't feel anything but was never knocked out so as mentioned he is above them.

- Beerus and Quitela were the last two standing (not including Belmod who was playing possum) and Quitela seemed to know Beerus would be one of the last standing.

- Grand Priest stopped Beerus and Quitela's punches with a finger.

- Goku isn't confident in fighting a God of Destruction. He's probably weaker than them all.

- Goku says he can't sense the power of Toppo or the Gods of Destruction. That conflicts with the anime where he was supposed to be at a level he could sense God Ki.

- Super Saiyan 3 Goku can't land a hand on a suppressed Toppo.

- Goku turns into a Super Saiyan God. The other Gods seem amazed. Toppo powers up, he might have God Ki, I think that's what he was getting at.

- Beerus says Goku is a match for Toppo as a Super Saiyan God.

- Goku turns Blue and loses in one attack but Toppo actually says that he let his guard down and that if he hadn't countered the attack didn't think he would have won. So perhaps they actually are equal or on par like how was portrayed in the anime after all.

- Toppo says that based on combat skill alone he is stronger than Belmod.

You mean Jiren right?

[Sora Saiyan]

- Toppo says that based on combat skill alone he is stronger than Belmod.

You mean Jiren right?

Yes, Toppo is talking about Jiren.

[JazzMazz]

- Toppo says that based on combat skill alone he is stronger than Belmod.

You mean Jiren right?

Yes, Toppo is talking about Jiren.

From the chapter it seems that Goku is still comparable to Buu saga strength in the manga, while going God is really where all the power is at. SSG also doesn't seem to be that far away from SSB in terms of power.

Maybe that means that Hits time-skip won't be completely useless, espicially if he has trained.

[Bullza]

From the chapter it seems that Goku is still comparable to Buu saga strength in the manga, while going God is really where all the power is at. SSG also doesn't seem to be that far away from SSB in terms of power.

Maybe that means that Hits time-skip won't be completely useless, espicially if he has trained.

If he was comparable to his Buu saga strength then he should have passed out along with the Supreme Kai's but he didn't. Which should suggest he's much stronger than them which he really should be if the manga is staying true to events that happened in Resurrection F.

[JazzMazz]

From the chapter it seems that Goku is still comparable to Buu saga strength in the manga, while going God is really where all the power is at. SSG also doesn't seem to be that far away from SSB in terms of power.

Maybe that means that Hits time-skip won't be completely useless, espicially if he has trained.

If he was comparable to his Buu saga strength then he should have passed out along with the Supreme Kai's but he didn't. Which should suggest he's much stronger than them which he really should be if the manga is staying true to events that happened in Resurrection F.

Yeah, but I still don't think that suggests they're are that much stronger than there Buu arc counter-parts.

[emperior]

From the chapter it seems that Goku is still comparable to Buu saga strength in the manga, while going God is really where all the power is at. SSG also doesn't seem to be that far away from SSB in terms of power.

Maybe that means that Hits time-skip won't be completely useless, espicially if he has trained.

If he was comparable to his Buu saga strength then he should have passed out along with the Supreme Kai's but he didn't. Which should suggest he's much stronger than them which he really should be if the manga is staying true to events that happened in Resurrection F.

In Buu arc the untransformed Saiyans should be weaker than Piccolo, yet Vegeta had no problems fighting in the Budokai Tenkaichi with the no-SSJ rule. Later on, Dabura specifically says he got rid of the weakest fighters when he attacked Goku and co., he got rid of Krillin, Kibito and also Piccolo, who would be stronger than the base Saiyans, which means Dabura could sense the Saiyans were hiding power.
In this same chapter Toppo senses that Goku is hiding power, so I assume Goku was able to resist Rumsshi's attack because of his latent power, that manifests itself only when Goku transforms - which means we wouldn't really know if the Kaioshins are weaker than base Goku.

[JazzMazz]

From the chapter it seems that Goku is still comparable to Buu saga strength in the manga, while going God is really where all the power is at. SSG also doesn't seem to be that far away from SSB in terms of power.

Maybe that means that Hits time-skip won't be completely useless, espicially if he has trained.

If he was comparable to his Buu saga strength then he should have passed out along with the Supreme Kai's but he didn't. Which should suggest he's much stronger than them which he really should be if the manga is staying true to events that happened in Resurrection F.

In Buu arc the untransformed Saiyans should be weaker than Piccolo, yet Vegeta had no problems fighting in the Budokai Tenkaichi with the no-SSJ rule. Later on, Dabura specifically says he got rid of the weakest fighters when he attacked Goku and co., he got rid of Krillin, Kibito and also Piccolo, who would be stronger than the base Saiyans, which means Dabura could sense the Saiyans were hiding power.
In this same chapter Toppo senses that Goku is hiding power, so I assume Goku was able to resist Rumsshi's attack because of his latent power, that manifests itself only when Goku transforms - which means we wouldn't really know if the Kaioshins are weaker than base Goku.

No, I think base Goku is definitely above Kaio-shin. In the Buu arc he was super impressed with just the base Saiyans.

I don't think its stretch to think Goku has surpassed them in his base form since then.

[Bullza]

Well that comes back around to Battle of Gods where Beerus said Base Goku was weaker than Frieza.

Meanwhile Supreme Kai was stronger than Piccolo who was so above Frieza at the point. Also the Daizenshuu said something about how Kibito could give Base Gohan a good fight and Kibito probably shouldn't be nearly as strong as Supreme Kai.

[JazzMazz]

Well that comes back around to Battle of Gods where Beerus said Base Goku was weaker than Frieza.

Meanwhile Supreme Kai was stronger than Piccolo who was so above Frieza at the point. Also the Daizenshuu said something about how Kibito could give Base Gohan a good fight and Kibito probably shouldn't be nearly as strong as Supreme Kai.

Well they have improved dramatically as fighters in the manga, so I'm not entirely surprised. Its not as ridiculous as some people have been guessing, so thats a positive.

Also, Zamasu fought Kibito and demolished him, so I think Kibito is at least comparable to the Supreme Kai.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I'd say that, at the minimum, Goku should most definitely be at the level he displayed against Uub in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. As in, probably at least as strong as Pure Buu. In BOTH mediums.

Does that sound fair?

[Saiyan007]

So all of the Gods of Destruction are all stronger than Goku.He even says their strength is "mind blowing".

[Bullza]

So all of the Gods of Destruction are all stronger than Goku.He even says their strength is "mind blowing".

Makes sense I suppose. They made a big deal of Jiren being above a God of Destruction in the anime as well so you wouldn't think anyone else like Goku, Frieza or Hit were above any of the Gods of Destruction either or it's no big deal.

[jplaya2023]

is there another source than viz manga reader? it's hard reading viz pages with how they lay it out and if u zoom in it cuts off the page and text and u cant slide the scroll bar to see them

[TheSaiyanGod]

So it seems that Toppo only defeated Goku because the Saiyajin lowered his guard (Pride Trooper also says that if he had not counterattack Goku's blow, he does not know if he would have won).

So, I see Goku MSSB = or> Toppo.

Although it was not clear whether Goku used the SSB mastered or not

[ZombieVito]

Viz has now translated the chapter so here's some comments to make.

- Rumsshi has the most powerful lungs in all the universes. He was able to briefly paralyse some of the Gods of Destruction and knocked out those at the Supreme Kai level. Goku said he couldn't feel anything but was never knocked out so as mentioned he is above them.

- Beerus and Quitela were the last two standing (not including Belmod who was playing possum) and Quitela seemed to know Beerus would be one of the last standing.

- Grand Priest stopped Beerus and Quitela's punches with a finger.

- Goku isn't confident in fighting a God of Destruction. He's probably weaker than them all.

- Goku says he can't sense the power of Toppo or the Gods of Destruction. That conflicts with the anime where he was supposed to be at a level he could sense God Ki.

- Super Saiyan 3 Goku can't land a hand on a suppressed Toppo.

- Goku turns into a Super Saiyan God. The other Gods seem amazed. Toppo powers up, he might have God Ki, I think that's what he was getting at.

- Beerus says Goku is a match for Toppo as a Super Saiyan God.

- Goku turns Blue and loses in one attack but Toppo actually says that he let his guard down and that if he hadn't countered the attack didn't think he would have won. So perhaps they actually are equal or on par like how was portrayed in the anime after all.

- Toppo says that based on combat skill alone he is stronger than Belmod.

Whis also confirms that Goku only has 5 transformations. This along with Shin getting knocked out puts the final nail in the coffin for SbG.

Whis also says that some of the GoD shouldn't be standing after the roar.