Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Birusu16]

The power-scale is insane in Super right now. The episode basically implies that Goku got over 20x stronger in his normal SSB since it's stated that Jiren is stronger than he ever has been in the tournament right now and SSB Goku could trade blows with him. Then Goku proceeds to power up even more into SSBKKx20 and Vegeta attains his new transformation by breaking his own limits and both manage to push him despite him being at the highest level he's ever been at in the tournament. It essentially implies that both Goku and Vegeta are stronger than initial UI Goku.

At this point I'm just going with the assumption that Goku and Vegeta continuously get stronger the more they fight because this is just getting insane.

[buutenks]

The power-scale is insane in Super right now. The episode basically implies that Goku got over 20x stronger in his normal SSB since it's stated that Jiren is stronger than he ever has been in the tournament right now and SSB Goku could trade blows with him. Then Goku proceeds to power up even more into SSBKKx20 and Vegeta attains his new transformation by breaking his own limits and both manage to push him despite him being at the highest level he's ever been at in the tournament. It essentially implies that both Goku and Vegeta are stronger than initial UI Goku.

At this point I'm just going with the assumption that Goku and Vegeta continuously get stronger the more they fight because this is just getting insane.

TBH, i find it awesome.

[Bullza]

I definitely don't think Super Saiyan Blue Goku now is stronger than his Kaioken x20 self from like 15 minutes ago.

Yeah he did briefly hold his own against a powered up Jiren but back in Episode 109 Blue Goku held his own and Kaioken x20 was beaten instantly.

Super Saiyan Blue Limit Breaker Vegeta (that's a real mouthful so I'll think of something shorter in the future) looks like he's got equivalent power to Blue Goku Kaioken x20. That is if he's using the x20 me not something even greater.


Android 17 struggles against surely a suppressed Toppo, the same one that Blue Goku beat around. I definitely don't think Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan are anywhere near Blue level now. Ultimate Gohan couldn't even scratch a suppressed Toppo. At least Blue Vegeta slighty shocked Jiren with a punch.


Dyspo not hurting Frieza...dunno what to make that of. Dyspo is also all over the place. He did overwhelm Super Saiyan God Goku and that was without that purple aura he has in the NEP. Frieza does turn Golden so he must be somewhat powerful.

Perhaps Dyspo and Ultimate Gohan will scale to Golden Frieza is they're all fighting together.

[Noah]

And you guys are still try to make sense with this sh**?

Jiren battle power was completely inconsistent in this episode! In previous episodes he delt with Goku in both SSJB and KKx20 + SSJB transformations with ease! We saw him taking a time to push him back on these weaker levels!

Don't come with me that he was holding back what reason he has to do it? Also Base Goku resisting Jiren attacks? That doesn't make any sense either!

[supercat]

Android 17 was able to tangle with Toppo whereas Gohan was tossed aside like trash despite sneaking up on the Pride Trooper. Factor that in with Android 17 tanking Gohan's Kamehameha (after his barrier had already dissipated) and coming out unscathed and that's quite a feat supporting the android's power.

Looking at past feats, we have Android 17 blitzing through Aniraza's attack (a force that was pushing back 5 SSB-tier warriors) after pushing it back close to his face, along with his brief sparring match with SSB Goku. I would say at this point, the adding number of these SSB-esque feats all support Android 17 at least being anywhere between RoF and Universe 6 Tournament SSB-tier.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Dyspo is blue level. Since NEP he is taking on both Gohan and Golden Freeza. Tho that should have been obvious from his fight with Hit and ssg/blue Goku.

Seems Super Blue Vegeta n kk Blue Goku could be above initial UI Goku, considering how well they did and Jiren was stated to have increased his power.

Seems so, but since I'm fair, I'm just going to say that new ssb vegeta and ssbkk×20 goku are on par or nearing that first showcase of UI. Really says a lot on how suppressed jiren was against UI goku.

[Birusu16]

Dyspo is blue level. Since NEP he is taking on both Gohan and Golden Freeza. Tho that should have been obvious from his fight with Hit and ssg/blue Goku.

Seems Super Blue Vegeta n kk Blue Goku could be above initial UI Goku, considering how well they did and Jiren was stated to have increased his power.

Seems so, but since I'm fair, I'm just going to say that new ssb vegeta and ssbkk×20 goku are on par or nearing that first showcase of UI. Really says a lot on how suppressed jiren was against UI goku.

That's pretty much what the episode implies seeing as it suggests Jiren wasn't ever using this much power before now in the tournament.

[Bullza]

At least it probably looks like Dyspo will probably be above the likes of Pirina, Saonel and Koichiarator. I'm assuming he's going to be the main threat that Gohan will come across in this Tournament.

Jiren battle power was completely inconsistent in this episode! In previous episodes he delt with Goku in both SSJB and KKx20 + SSJB transformations with ease! We saw him taking a time to push him back on these weaker levels!

Well in Episode 109 he beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku with the Kaioken x20 pretty much immediately. Yet he didn't do that when he fought against Blue Goku prior to that. He didn't do that last episode either when he fought Blue Goku or Blue Vegeta.

He didn't do that against Hit who also had that comparable Blue level power or with Blue Goku I'm this episode.

If anything it was Jiren beating Goku with the Kaioken x20 in seconds back in Episode 109 that was the real inconsistency.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

So Dyspo is shown to be below the Base saiyans power wise in this episode since his assault couldn't even hurt Final form Frieza whom is shown to be comparable to Base Goku. The only reason that he can tango with top tiers is due to his speed and nothing else. It's consistent with him not being able to do anything to Maji Kayo.

The likely correct conclusion is that Dyspo isn't much different from the other low tier Pride Troopers in power but his speed sets him apart. The only Pride Troopers that have reached godly levels power wise are Toppo and Jiren.

[Galan007]

So are we calling 'ASSB' Vegeta equal to SSB+KKx20 Goku?

[Dragon's Instinct]

So I'm assuming base frieza is near ssg then because I feel Goku was holding back against dyspo in ssg and even then showed no damage against dyspo

[Dragon's Instinct]

So are we calling 'ASSB' Vegeta equal to SSB+KKx20 Goku?

Apparently so judging with what we got from this episode
So scaling rn looks like
ASSB Vegeta = x20 kkSB Goku > SSB Vegeta >/= SSB Goku

[Lord Frieza]

Dose this episode kind of answer why Hit didn't let the U6 saiyans get involved? Hit's almost on par with Goku in terms of perception and if Goku didn't think that just destroying the ring under him and dropping him of the side would work, it not hard to believe Hit came to the same conclusion.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I believe that Jiren increased his power during the fight against Goku by being angry after almost falling with the strategy of Goku, not necessarily because he needed.

In the middle of the episode, Jiren almost finalized SSB Goku (without increasing the power), but the Kienzan prevented.
He with a punch made Goku disable the SSB (which according to Kaioshin of U11 was a common punch for Jiren)

So really, Jiren's power seems very inconsistent on this EP, so I do not know how to rate Goku and Vegeta here.

Goku also seems to be using the Kaioken x20 here (Beerus says he's using all his power). And Vegeta seems to have fought Jiren in the same rhythm as Goku with all his power

[ZombieVito]

So I'm assuming base frieza is near ssg then because I feel Goku was holding back against dyspo in ssg and even then showed no damage against dyspo

No.

If he was SSG tier in his Final form then he wouldn't have used his Golden form against SS2 Cabba.

He's base tier.

[SuperDragoon]

No. The last few episodes, and the newest one, have all pointed to Base Freeza being SSG level. Freeza being weaker than SSJ2 Cabba is contradicted by Freeza tanking Dyspo and one shotting Frost, as well as being completely ok with fighting SSJ2 Caulifla and SSJ Kale. Freeza isn't Base Saiyan level.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Base Freeza temporarily held off Ultimate Gohan in their fake match.

[Dragon's Instinct]

So I'm assuming base frieza is near ssg then because I feel Goku was holding back against dyspo in ssg and even then showed no damage against dyspo

No.

If he was SSG tier in his Final form then he wouldn't have used his Golden form against SS2 Cabba.

He's base tier.

Freeza was not trying against Cabba in Golden he even said he wasted energy doing that
Freeza simply overestimated Cabba when he powered up.

[ZombieVito]

So, what do you guys make of Piccolo being able to tell the difference between Vegeta's regular Blue Ki and his new form's ki? Wouldn't that mean he can sense God Ki now and therefore making him God level?

Interesting.

Not even Future Trunks who was as strong as SS2 Goku could sense god ki.

Freeza was not trying against Cabba in Golden he even said he wasted energy doing that
Freeza simply overestimated Cabba when he powered up.

Impossible. He can very well sense Cabba's ki.

He used Golden because he needed to.

[Dragon's Instinct]

So, what do you guys make of Piccolo being able to tell the difference between Vegeta's regular Blue Ki and his new form's ki? Wouldn't that mean he can sense God Ki now and therefore making him God level?

Interesting.

Not even Future Trunks who was as strong as SS2 Goku could sense god ki.

Freeza was not trying against Cabba in Golden he even said he wasted energy doing that
Freeza simply overestimated Cabba when he powered up.

Impossible. He can very well sense Cabba's ki.

He used Golden because he needed to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8o-SsL7VxM

Go to 1:43 again he said that he wasted stamina going golden I highly doubt Frieza needed to go Golden against ssj2 Cabba
Cabba is not on God level in any sense if we're honest here I'm showing you what's there. Frieza never said "Oh that was close if I didn't go golden I would have gotten hurt"

[Kenneth La Torre]

Man, i think jirens full power is going to be scaaaaaary. The dude is still far from full power, yet will handle a ssb kaioken ×20 goku, who seems to be nearing his first UI showcase of power, and a far stronger ssb vegeta with minimum effort.