Super retelling BOG and ROF

[dbzfan7]

Don't like this one bit. Already didn't like how at first it seemed like it was not gonna be post Z. Then didn't like it when it seemed to be pre movies. Now I don't like it when it's just gonna retell the movies. I don't want it to just re-imagine the movies as arcs. I'd rather have jumped to universe 6 and move on from there. It's like they just couldn't think of many ideas, so why not just reuse what we just told. Dragon Ball is very good at that.

However there is a silver lining that could make this great, it's just I have absolutely no faith they will do that. This is a chance to utilize the cast in a much better way than the movies have done with them. With an arc we can expand and give them more to do, maybe more to learn. The problem is I have no faith they're gonna steer to far from what we got from the movies. I feel like what happened in the movies will happen again with some minor changes. The Z formula will probably just be replaced with the GT formula.

[Luso Saiyan]

Now I don't like it when it's just gonna retell the movies.

We don't know that. It's just fan speculation.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Tying Super into both new movies, whether or not it features their actual events, cannot end well no matter how you go about it.

These are basically Toei's options:

- You retell the movies within the series and tell anyone who has seen them that they have to juggle two different media- a film and a set of TV episodes- in their minds from here on out, something we have never had before. Bardock and the 2008 special "happened", but they're self-contained footnotes.

- You create a deliberately incomplete product that tells its viewers "Stop watching here, go out and buy these movies", which not only breaks immersion but is supremely cheap, literally using existing material to pad out your current production.

Accessibility should not be an issue when Dragon Ball is astonishingly accessible given its size and age; the main series is the story, everything else (Movies, Specials) is extra, and Dragon Ball is so simple that one hardly requires the other. Its the cleanest cut-off imaginable. If Super really wants to follow a Super -> Battle of Gods -> Super -> Resurrection F -> Super structure, it will be the least accessible Dragon Ball production we've ever had. If Toei is really so afraid of Super's audience knowing nothing of these movies, then they overestimated the appeal of continuing a series that ended twenty years ago, evergreen or not.

All of that said, since this is the road they've chosen, in one form or another, I do look forward to some elaboration on the movies.

[Bullza]

They do? Tell me how they'd watch Resurrection 'F' when it's not on DVD yet.

It's still in theatres. It's been out for over 3 months already. If they haven't seen it then that's really their problem. The idea of other universes was brought up in Battle of Gods, Beerus and Whis who are in Super were in Battle of Gods. RoF isn't really required to watch.

And as I said at least for Americans nobody recalled watched the original DB, they watched DBZ. If they could miss an entire series and be fine watching DBZ then there's no reason people can't miss out on one movie.

For you they're fine

And the majority. If it's not really broke don't fix it.

And your point is....?

That it's simply unnecessary. The movies were good enough and popular enough already. It's pointless to confuse fans by retelling a story which has only just been told and bringing in more retcons and canon discussions when there's no reason orngain for it.

The Bardock TV special didn't stop getting attention after Minus came out.

No what it did instead was bring a lot of negative attention towards Minus, Toriyama and the origin of Goku by retelling a story that didn't need to be told just like this one.

[Bullza]

Honestly, why does it matter whether the movies lose importance, especially if, assumingly, the retellings are superior?

The importance the movies had to the plot is what has lead to the Dragon Ball resurgence, it's why Super is even being made because they were so successful largely due to their importance.

They're throwing anyway something that unlike with GT most fans seem to be enjoying. Even if the retellings were superior all it's going to do is confuse fans who have just recently watched the movies.

The movies even with their flaws were just fine. The only thing that they should have done is just continue where they left off with RoF. They didn't need to do any of this retelling nonsense and making the canon even more of a mess than it is.

[fadeddreams5]

Honestly, why does it matter whether the movies lose importance, especially if, assumingly, the retellings are superior?

The importance the movies had to the plot is what has lead to the Dragon Ball resurgence, it's why Super is even being made because they were so successful largely due to their importance.

They're throwing anyway something that unlike with GT most fans seem to be enjoying. Even if the retellings were superior all it's going to do is confuse fans who have just recently watched the movies.

The movies even with their flaws were just fine. The only thing that they should have done is just continue where they left off with RoF. They didn't need to do any of this retelling nonsense and making the canon even more of a mess than it is.

It won't confuse anyone if Super is written well enough for people to realize those movies are not canon to its plot. And nobody's throwing anything away. The success of the movies will never change, regardless of what they do. If anything, they were like Dragon Ball Super spoilers--a taste of what's ahead.

[MarcFBR]

It's not abnormal to have to go watch a movie or even an episode of another show inbetween episodes of another show.

I mean, Toei has done 'and the movie that came out awhile ago' counts for more than a few of their franchises. I don't exactly see why they wouldn't do it here.

[Bullza]

It won't confuse anyone if Super is written well enough for people to realize those movies are not canon to its plot.

I'm sure if they do retell the story of the movies people will get that eventually. However it is inevitable that there will be a lot of people who are going to watch it, having no idea at all that there was any inclination of a retelling and people are going to be wondering why "this" and "that" is different from the movie they just watched.

They'll be sitting there thinking "but that's what happened before" and "why have they changed things" etc. People generally don't like change.

If they really retell the movies I'm 100% sure that far, FAR more people will hate the idea than the small minority who will be fine with it.

[Chuquita]

I'm not too bothered. If they're better, great! If they're worse, oh well I still get new ssjg Gokû footage out of it.

Though better and worse are subjective in this case.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

It's not abnormal to have to go watch a movie or even an episode of another show inbetween episodes of another show.

I mean, Toei has done 'and the movie that came out awhile ago' counts for more than a few of their franchises. I don't exactly see why they wouldn't do it here.

I am well aware of the precedent, I just feel it would be a shame for a series that has avoided the trap for thirty years to fall into it now.

It won't confuse anyone if Super is written well enough for people to realize those movies are not canon to its plot. And nobody's throwing anything away. The success of the movies will never change, regardless of what they do. If anything, they were like Dragon Ball Super spoilers--a taste of what's ahead.

I understand the gist of what you're suggesting. For example, I am one of the many people who went into David Productions' version of JoJo Part 3 having already seen the heavily-abridged 1993 OVA (but having never sought out the manga, naturally), thus knowing the basic story and some of the most memorable villains, but not the overall structure of the story or all the great character moments. There were certain points I was expecting, but they did not ruin the whole because I did not know where they fit in the broader arc. You could direct Super in such a way that the movies are simply given points in the future- but Super is different, as there are some things that simply cannot happen without other things- the two movies- having happened. If Super wants to have Beerus out and about in the background doing his own thing the whole time, that does not clash with Battle of Gods, beyond Beerus' being awake earlier than he should have been, oh well. If you want Goku and Vegeta training on Beerus and Whis' planet, or Beerus or Whis interacting with any of the earthlings to begin with, Battle of Gods has to happen.

[MarcFBR]

I am well aware of the precedent, I just feel it would be a shame for a series that has avoided the trap for thirty years to fall into it now.

Toei has done it before with Dragon Ball.

The Garlic Jr. episodes of DBZ were a sequel to the movie, not a retelling.

[Bullza]

That's a good point, I forgot that one.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I am well aware of the precedent, I just feel it would be a shame for a series that has avoided the trap for thirty years to fall into it now.

Toei has done it before with Dragon Ball.

The Garlic Jr. episodes of DBZ were a sequel to the movie, not a retelling.

And in comes Marc being the adult and shutting the skeptics down. Touche.

Super is introducing us to Beerus in another context, yes, and he and Whis could be introduced with a clip show from Battle of Gods. That would work, particularly for a series whose international fanbase was forged almost entirely with just its second half! But that leads to entirely different different question, why introduce a break so deliberately? There is no manga to catch up with, no other currently-running stories in other media you might potentially contradict, none of the reasons these things usually happen. It looks to me like an unnecessary complication with no gain to be had beyond keeping Goten and Trunks children.

[funrush]

I personally don't mind, but I feel like adapting these movies that most of the more avid fans have probably seen already might have an effect on the ratings. I just don't want the series to suffer from the first two arcs being lower budgeted versions of big screen movies.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

My opinion will depend solely on the adaptations themselves, after the fact. They could just expand on them and keep what worked and fix what didn't, so seeing what could end up different between the two will be interesting. If they somehow make these adaptation much more inferior to the films that already exist though? I will be disappointed.

[ultimateemail5000]

I get the feeling 10% is going to be the 2008 special, 30% is going to be Battle of Gods Kai, another 30% will be Resurrection F Kai, and the remaining with be new material. If the show succeeds and Akira Toriyama is willing to do more, maybe we'll get to see beyond Z and they'll finally erase GT from everybody's memories.

[Doctor.]

I get the feeling 10% is going to be the 2008 special, 30% is going to be Battle of Gods Kai, another 30% will be Resurrection F Kai, and the remaining with be new material. If the show succeeds and Akira Toriyama is willing to do more, maybe we'll get to see beyond Z and they'll finally erase GT from everybody's memories.

I don't think they'll waste such a huge amount of time when people may lose interest since it's something they've already seen. I'm betting on 30 episodes for everything at best.

[Fizzer]

If they're having episodes set pre- and post- movies, then it's much better to adapt those movies into episodes that to have a timeskip with the events of the movies unexplained within the series. The series needs to be more self-contained than that. I'm actually excited by the prospect of seeing those stories expanded too. We might get the original scripts before stuff got cut out. Maybe this also means that Super will have the same animation quality as the movies, since then ~9 episodes worth of animation is already done.

[Basaku]

I get the feeling 10% is going to be the 2008 special, 30% is going to be Battle of Gods Kai, another 30% will be Resurrection F Kai, and the remaining with be new material. If the show succeeds and Akira Toriyama is willing to do more, maybe we'll get to see beyond Z and they'll finally erase GT from everybody's memories.

I don't think they'll waste such a huge amount of time when people may lose interest since it's something they've already seen. I'm betting on 30 episodes for everything at best.

We won't move past ROF till early 2016 in my opinion, it would negatively affect sales ROF's home video sales during fall/holiday season

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Assuming there won't be any breaks, there's like 24 episodes for the remainder of the year. I don't see them taking that long to finish the Resurrection F Arc unless the pacing is just horrible. Though we won't know till the series starts and we see how they are handling it.