Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
A while back I made a thread discussing a live-action Dragon Ball film, primarily one for Z and the possibility of Goku being played by an African-American.
The majority of the reaction was that the character would be better suited not being done by one, which I disagreed with for the simple fact that it has never been done before and thus we have nothing to base it off. Not only that, but Goku and every other character that isn't human, is an alien. It also has to do with interpretation. There are several images of Goku, in particular among the Saiyans, from the manga that are colored and portray him with a darker skin tone, similar to the one seen in GT which I felt was similar to that of an African-American.
In conclusion, I feel the majority of people who would entirely rule out an actor of African descent playing the character for simply being black are doing a disservice to the franchise by not allowing it to become diverse in other media in cases where it could be argued that it would show the variety of interpretations that people can have of something.
There's nothing inherently wrong with having Goku as a Black guy. There are plenty of franchises, that have different interpretations of the characters looks, when it comes to skin color. Though it would seem, that having a white guy as the main character would increase the movie's chances of being succesfull.
Evolution for example had Goku, Bulma and Piccolo portrayed by White people, while the supporting cast of Roshi, Chi Chi and Mai were East Asian.
But you're right did sometimes draw Goku with a darker skin tone than usual. There was also the one, where everybody are waving goodbye and Goku has a much darker skin tone than his sons and practically everyone else, not Uub.
A lighter skinned mixed raced guy could work but even then I don't think the general audience would accept it. A purely black Goku just wouldn't realistically happen in a big budget production with lots of money on the line. The film companies would always go with the safer option of brown/black haired caucasian or someone with some kind of mixed asian heritage so they can capitalise on the asian markets (Think Johhny Young Bosch or Keeanu Reeves).
I know it sounds harsh but these are the realities of the film business. They know the majority of moviegoers have ingrained biases toward other races so they go with the safer option to make as much money as possible. I don't agree with it but I understand why they do it, it's all about the money.
Business aside though, do you really think a black guy with Super Saiyan hair would look good on film? I've seen enough bad cosplays to know it just wouldn't work visually unless they changed the whole concept to a full body transformation like golden oozaru or something. Going in that direction you then run the risk of people calling it racist simply for portraying a black guy as an ape plus you have a white alien (Freeza) calling him a monkey... yeah, bad idea imo.
P.S: I'm half black so I'm not coming at this from a racist perspective, just an objective/realistic one.
Last edited by NitroEX on Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing against the topic creator but GOD THIS THREAD got potential to turn really nasty.
I wouldnt mind if Goku was black. but he isnt. I would love to see a original new shonen with a black protagonist but Goku is while not white, isnt black either. And its not bias, that's just the way it is.
I really dont like the whole turning white characters black, not because I'm against diversity but rather because I'd rather see new stories with black protagonists. Also because many will complain that character is just Black!Goku instead of an actual character on their own like Tiana from ThePrincessAndTheFrog.
So in short, I'd rather see new stories than just BLACK!GOKU
EDIT:Also, I have to say I hate this "A Black main wont sell" logic. I dont care if its true, its a shitty attitude to have. I understand that changing the race of a characters might be offputting (And I dont mean just white to black, I also mean black to white.) but god,its greedy and prejudiced at the same time.
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
Just come in here to say, even when Goku looks really tanned, at best, I'd say he has the complexion of somebody Spanish, Greek, Italian and so on, but not African-American.
Sora Saiyan wrote:when Goku looks really tanned, at best, I'd say he has the complexion of somebody Spanish, Greek, Italian and so on, but not African-American.
Well, Tullece is basically Goku with a black tan, and to me he sort of resembles a darker skinned Hispanic person.
Also in the first photo the OP posted, Goku could maybe pass as Indian or Arab, but not as a full-blooded Black person imho.
"I will literally dress as Goku and walk around jumping up and down, pretending to fly, in public if this ever gets an official release"
In live action, I prefer that the look of the actors is close to the original deceptions. So, just like I wouldn't want Storm from X-men or Black Panther to be white or asian, I also wouldn't want the opposite.
rereboy wrote:In live action, I prefer that the look of the actors is close to the original deceptions. So, just like I wouldn't want Storm from X-men or Black Panther to be white or asian, I also wouldn't want the opposite.
Looks like you won't like Dr. strange then too since The Ancient One has been cast as a woman. That character has been an older Asian man since the beginning. Ditto with Johnny Storm and Franklin Storm in the new Fantastic Four (both black), Jimmy Olson in Supergirl (black), etc. how about the all Japanese cast for Attack on Titan? East Indian man for The Mandarin in Iron Man 3 was a big let down. It goes on and on...
It seems kind of unnecessary to make a second topic, talking about the exact same thing as the last one. But whatever, I'll give my opinion again.
Personally, I don't have a problem with Goku being black. The character is an alien with his resembling race to humans never specified, and he has been drawn inconsistently, in regards to skin tone.
That said, this is a Japanese manga with heavy Asian influences, so I think it'd be a disservice not to first go with a Japanese/Asian cast. Goku's hair, facial features, and skin tone seem to be closer to Asian than strictly African.
This has nothing to do with a bias, so much as simply wanting the character to look as close to the source material as possible. And again, I'd have no problem with Goku being played by an African actor. If he were to give a great performance, and looked enough like Goku, that'd be fine.
NitroEX wrote:Business aside though, do you really think a black guy with Super Saiyan hair would look good on film? I've seen enough bad cosplays to know it just wouldn't work visually unless they changed the whole concept to a full body transformation like golden oozaru or something.
Goku should be neither Caucasian or African American, imo. I can only see an Asian mix person looking the part in a live-action movie. Or maybe someone Thai that looks sort of like this kickboxer: https://youtu.be/6Glyrl0-cSk
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Why do people feel the need to change the race of a character? Seriously, how would that add anything to the story? I mean, if a character is portrayed and handled well I guess it doesn't really matter, but just doing it to do it?
I just don't see the point in doing things like this just for the sake of doing them. But that's just me.
Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.
Actually that's everyone except the topic author...
I didn't mean that I was the only one to hold that opinion. I meant that it was my opinion in the first place...
Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.
I don't know, I think that things should stay the way they are. They already changed my favorite Wally West in DC to be black.
Well, why not! But why still change characters only for the sake of ''racial diversity'' which is of course backed-up by money in the first place.
And it happens everywhere. Why not create new characters suited for their roles having the race already in mind?
No! We have to market this thing, that was 75 years the same. So for example, we have the Fantastic Four, so we will make this guy African, this guy Asian, this woman Arabian and let's leave the stop for Caucasian.
And we will have people from all these backgrounds flooding the cinemas. Yeah, sure.
I don't see how having a black actor play Goku would be changing his race from the source material any more than an Asian actor would be. Goku's race in the source material is Saiyan, it's never said he's supposed to be Asian and I don't think it can be assumed just because Dragonball is Japanese in origin.
It's not that I see or don't see Goku as Asian, but I think the right Asian can pull off the look better than any other.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
fadeddreams5 wrote:It's not that I see or don't see Goku as Asian, but I think the right Asian can pull off the look better than any other.
but....why? doesn't that imply that you DO see Goku as Asian? I'm not saying that's wrong; Goku is a nearly featureless anime character that can look like anyone. But why couldn't a white or black or anything also pull off "the look"? I don't think having a preference is automatically racist, But we should wait to see how good of an actor they are before dismissing them.
fadeddreams5 wrote:It's not that I see or don't see Goku as Asian, but I think the right Asian can pull off the look better than any other.
but....why? doesn't that imply that you DO see Goku as Asian? I'm not saying that's wrong; Goku is a nearly featureless anime character that can look like anyone. But why couldn't a white or black or anything also pull off "the look"? I don't think having a preference is automatically racist, But we should wait to see how good of an actor they are before dismissing them.
Here are two Black characters in the series:
Tell me Goku looks closer to these characters than to an Asian.
Also, no Earthling in the series every claims that Goku doesn't look human (aside from the tail), so the "b-b-but he's an alien!" argument really doesn't hold water.
