Surprise, surprise. Shin Budokai sucks.

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:36 am

OK, I don't know how many of you have played this game, but man oh man if you haven't done so yet, please reconsider.

We all knew when we bought this it wasn't gonna be the best fighting game in the world, but man am I ever P.O.'d at the quality of it.

Basically this is a poor man's Budokai 3. First and foremost the story mode is just plain awful. I know it's intended to be funny but it's just not doing it for me. A few lines of meaningless dialogue with tons of misspellings (which will bring me to my next point) followed by a quick bout.

It's so obvious they rushed the hell out of this game. It doesn't even feel finished. I'm sure we have all played the previous Budokai games before... And Dimps, while not particularly known for their excellent gameplay, always give us a fans a nice polished presentation. I'm talking about the menus, the details, the items, the loading screens, all that ..... Shin Budokai lacks all those little details. First and foremost the title screen is so PLAIN looking, especially compared to the other Budokai games. Next you'll notice the loading screen is totally unimaginative as well (wow, you can "hit" the Z symbol.) The lack of modes also hurts.

The gameplay has been simplified and the replay value suffers as a result. The Budokai games were not known for their depth in fighting, but what they did have was the capsule system. This added depth in the sense you could customize your fighter to suit your style.

All of your moves are available straight away, which is good at first, but gives you nothing to work towards obtaining. One of the aspects that kept me playing B1-3 was going to the shop and purchasing new capsules. It was fun to get the rare stuff, then equip it and try it out. All of that is gone in Shin Budokai. I've had this game for two days and I'm already completely bored with it. Another concept that was introduced in B3 that is also stripped away from Shin is the level up system. Let's face it, we didn't play through 100s of matches in B3 because the gameplay was awesome, we played because levelling up was addicting!

While I'm really let down by this half-assed game, I can't say EVERYTHING about it is awful. First, they did a good job with the graphics. I'm pleased to see that they even improved the aura effects when pressing the R trigger. I also like how the specials look, and that cool 'stun' move you can do when pressing R and triangle.

Overall this game needed more time in development. Every single aspect of it just screams "rushed." They unnecessarily took out many things from the previous games in the series that added replay value and depth. As a result, you're left with what the core of the game is- a mediocre fighting game....

Sorry Z fans. Save your $40.

kindertuin · Post by **kindertuin** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:43 am

The Budokai games were not known for their depth in fighting

They aren't? Then look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3RofrSK ... udokai%203
and this
http://www.dragon-road.net/vids/b3-combos.zip

Then tell me this game isn't "deep".

As for shin budokai, I can't tell, haven't played it and never will!

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:02 pm

So it's a poor man's Budokai 3? What do you expect!? It's a fuckin' portable game! of course there's not going to be as much stuff in it. I will say that it is really fast paced and fun! The graphics are also incredible.

Slickmasterfunk · Post by **Slickmasterfunk** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:11 pm

Like I said in another thread,

SlickMasterFunk wrote:No, it's not Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 3 for the PS2. It's Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai for the PSP.

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:09 pm

SonGokuGT wrote:So it's a poor man's Budokai 3? What do you expect!? It's a fuckin' portable game! of course there's not going to be as much stuff in it. I will say that it is really fast paced and fun! The graphics are also incredible.

So just because it's portable that means there's no reason to make the product as good as it possibly can be? That's, well, retarded.

Let's look at the reasons why. Certainly they didn't have to take out these features because of hardware limitations. A UMD disc can hold 1.8 gigabytes of data. There's no way they had to cut out things from the previous games in the series because of space restrictions.

And what of the poor translation? Because it's a portable game, that's OK too? Come on man, that's fanboy talk. You know it, and I know it. They half-assed this game in every way.

In reply to the first poster: Um, OK. *Watches the videos* Um, OK. So the person can play good. That doesn't change the fact that the gameplay in Budokai isn't deep. Please, play some fighting games before you say something stupid like that again. A good example of a 3d fighter with actual depth would be Virtua Fighter 4: EVO. I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm just saying.... To claim that the Budokai series has a deep fighting engine just proves you don't play many fighting games.

In reply to Slickmaster funk: We know that. But couldn't they have, you know, improved upon Budokai 3 instead of taking away from it? Sure they took out some annoyances, like the Dragon Rush, but they also took away everything that kept me coming back. Perhaps they should have called this Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Lite? Or even more appropriately, they should have priced it at $29.99.

kindertuin · Post by **kindertuin** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:21 pm

Please, play some fighting games before you say something stupid like that again.

Wow, sorry, I really am dumb. Speaking against someone with so big words, what was I thinking.

To claim that the Budokai series has a deep fighting engine just proves you don't play many fighting games.

Or it proves that you haven't played this game. I have played Tekken, DOA, VF4, Street fighter, etc. I believe that I know what I am talking abouth when I discus fighting games.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:43 pm

Smooth Criminal wrote:Please, play some fighting games before you say something stupid like that again.

Kindertuin wrote:Wow, sorry, I really am dumb. Speaking against someone with so big words, what was I thinking.

Ouch! All right, wow . . . no need to let those auras flare up; it's just a game. Right? People can disagree without resorting to insults and arguments.

This Is A Public Service Announcement

Hello, friends.

Every year, countless and violent flame wars erupt over exactly this sort of thing . . . and who suffers for it? Countless innocent threads that are killed off by moderators . . . good threads that otherwise had a chance to live long, healthy lives. Cry aloud, for it is a senseless tragedy that goes on unabated every day in every part of the world, and the death toll is continuing to rise.

Have you ever seen a moderator? I haven't . . . so I know the horrible truth!! They are hungry, vicious predators who slaughter instantaneously, without feeling or remorse . . . and I can't be sure, but I think VegettoEX drinks the blood of his prey. It gives him strength, and no one is safe.

So please! If we can all be sensible people, and save the life of just one thread . . . we'll have made a difference.

And Now Back To Your Regularly Scheduled Thread

(Li'l Lemmy, the humorous.)

Adnan · Post by **Adnan** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:55 pm

Smooth Criminal, quit your whining.

You don't like the game? Fine. Just sell it on eBay. You'll probably get most of your money back that way, or just return it to the store if it has a flexible return policy and get all of it back. So there's no need to insult people like a friggin whining baby just because they don't agree with your opinion.

Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:56 pm

Wow, nice reply, Lemmy.

And he's right. Let's not get stupid and argumentive over video games, shall we?

As for Shin Budokai sucking... well, I haven't played it myself yet (don't own a PSP), but I've certainly read and researched enough about it and Budokai 3 (which in all honesty I have also yet to play) to tell that Shin isn't as good. Why? Because it's portable, for one, and like SlickMasterFunk said, it's not "Budokai 3 for PSP." It plays similar, but it's a different game.

For transformations, at least there are in-game ones in Shin. That, if you ask me, was Sparking!'s biggest disappointment. Besides, in the story, most characters don't go through all the levels when fighting, anyway; they usually just jump up to whatever stage they're gonna use.

AceSharp · Post by **AceSharp** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:24 pm

In reply to the first poster: Um, OK. *Watches the videos* Um, OK. So the person can play good. That doesn't change the fact that the gameplay in Budokai isn't deep. Please, play some fighting games before you say something stupid like that again. A good example of a 3d fighter with actual depth would be Virtua Fighter 4: EVO. I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm just saying.... To claim that the Budokai series has a deep fighting engine just proves you don't play many fighting games.

Having played many fighting games, I beg to differ. Saying that Budoaki doesn't match up to games such as Tekken and VF is ignorant; what little it lacks in complexity, it makes up for in sheer fun of gameplay.

The cancel combos, juggling combos and mind games in Budokai 3 are something other fighting games cannot, and will not, ever get to grips with. The speed and pace of the gameplay increases the mental concentration needed significantly. This is something which games such as Tekken/VF/MK, etc. don't have; they're extremely technical, which slows down the gameplay, and whilst this increases the technical depth of the game, it fails to really tap into the mental depth which players are capable of. This is where Budoaki 3 comes in. Do you really have any idea how complicated it is to pull of a cancel/juggle combo in Budokai 3, and anticipate which one of the many ways you can counter your opponent is most likely to try and pull off?

Sure, you can't string together low/med and high attacks to pull off a highly technical combo which, with timing, catches your opponent off guard and deals a large portion of their health, but seriously, in most fighting games (talking other than Budokai), you don't have to time every single punch/kick/ki attack to precision in order to avoid a teleport counter, or a crucial dodge. In Budokai, the ability to counter is ripe for the picking; you can, with the right requirements (enough Ki, etc.) counter any possible attack at any possible moment. This toys with your and your opponent's mind. You've got to trick your enemy into thinking you're going to juggle him, so that when he goes to teleport counter, he's met with a charged attack which renders his tapping of <- X pointless. The charge is then released, and the mind games begin again. This is why, offensively in particular, Budokai is on par with "in depth" fighting games.

To assume otherwise is ignorant; you need to understand both views. Games these days are made to be complicated to please fans who expect more. In actual fact, a simple game with a few unique features can achieve the exact same result, and possibly more. Its been proven time and time again. Look at Total Annihilation for example. It's stategy at it's most basic, and its donkeys years old, yet many still hold it in high regard as the best game of its genre.

Don't go around attacking other people's point of views until you understand both sides yourself. You clearly don't have an understanding of the mental aspects behind gameplay and mind games which human beings use against each other in order to achieve success in a competition, something which I happen to know a lot about after studying Human Psychology for a couple of years now. It's these features which Budokai utilizes against most other fighting games, and it bests them in this field.

DBZ MAN · Post by **DBZ MAN** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:33 pm

AceSharp and the rest are all correct.
And SonGokuGT was right too, this is a portable game and cannot possibly fit as much as Budokai 3 had and more!
Yes the PSP has more potential with more space and power then the PS2 but they have not 'unleashed' (lamens terms) the full power of the PSP yet because they have'nt got a battery power strong enough to make it so.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:13 am

I don't want to make a new topic for this so I guess I can throw it into this catagory of Budokai PSP sucking (even though I kinda like it)

When I heard Piccolos Japanese voice in the game it didn't sound like him at all, does anyone know if the original Japanese VA for Piccolo did it?

Slickmasterfunk · Post by **Slickmasterfunk** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:34 pm

Tanooki Kuribo wrote:I don't want to make a new topic for this so I guess I can throw it into this catagory of Budokai PSP sucking (even though I kinda like it)

When I heard Piccolos Japanese voice in the game it didn't sound like him at all, does anyone know if the original Japanese VA for Piccolo did it?

I don't know but didn't people say the same thing about Piccolo's voice in Sparking!/Budokai Tenkaichi?

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:49 pm

I'm quite positive it's the same seiyuu for Piccolo (Toshio Furukawa) as it was in the TV series & after all the audio in the original Japanese version was kind of crummy so it's easy for them to sound a little different, especially in games like Sparking! & Shin Budokai (not that I've played it heh).

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:30 pm

Acesharp - I agree with your statement. Budokai 3 is an absolute blast that, with an equally skilled oponent, is an intensely rapid mutual mind game. Even the Dragon rush has that aspect. My cousin is my equal in that game and we try all sorts of mind games when that comes up.

Here's a humerous example:

My cousin: "I know you didn't go X with that defense"
Me: "Yeah I did..."
My cousin: "Good, because I went Square!"

We have multiple ways to fake each other out on Dragon rush alone.

-Saying we went one way with an attack, but actually pressed a different button.

-Saying we went one way with an attack, bluffing them to think something else, but we actually DID go with what we said.

-Variations of saying it, but not actually pressing the button yet to trick them into calling out thier button press early.

A lot of thinking has to take place fast during the few fleeting moments you have to select your defense or attack on the dragon rush. There is so much depth and mind games to the actual battle, but that aspect alone is a major mind game between me and my cousin and we love it. We play Budokai 3 every time we get together without fail.

I can't wait to play Budokai 3 Special Edition with him.

Shin Budokai sounds like a let down from what I hear. Supersonic Warriors 2 on DS was also plagued with terrible spelling errors and translation mistakes. I wish they'd take the time to get it right.

Dragonball games are always hit or miss. Usually they are very poor for whatever reason, or very good. There are not many that are "decent" or middle ground. Hardcore fans would disagree, but this often seems to be the case. You can never judge a Dragonball game by its maker, title or series that it is a part of. They all must be judged on a case by case basis.

For every hunk of junk like Legacy of Goku on GBA, there is the astounding Legacy of Goku II, which is the polar opposite in terms of quality.

For the mostly mediocre Budokai 1 and 2, there is the awesome Budokai 3 SE.

I doubt they will make a game to top Budokai 3 SE for a long time to come. Sparking got old after a week, and I went back to Budokai 3 SE.

You just have to try every game that says DBZ on it and give it a chance. A chance apart from other games in the same series even. That's a phenomenon mostly unique to DBZ games.

I will try Shin Budokai when my friend gets it. Just to say I played it. It may be poorly made, but I will give any sequels an equal chance because you never know with DBZ games. One in every so many is always a gem.

The Mole · Post by **The Mole** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:16 pm

My friend, Tommy, and I do that. But, we take it up a notch. I'll yell "Kamehame---SPIRIT BOMB!!!" And he'll respond "You son of a..."

Another example is when we share the Dragon Universe Mode, Tommy will use the Potara fusion:

*Dabura crushes earring*
Tommy: "YOU DICK!!!!"
Me: *laughing*

.........Ok, too far off topic, but it shows how deep and enjoyable Budokai 3 is.[/list]

DBZ MAN · Post by **DBZ MAN** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:32 pm

I just shout random words or go SQUARE!!! X!!!! TRIANGLE!!! but press a differentbutton when in dragon rush. I often confuse my self though

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:45 pm

Regarding Piccolo, yes, he doesn't sound like he did in the TV series. Same complaint with Sparking. This is most likely due to the seiyuu not spending much time aside from PlayStation related games as Piccolo. :s

Bardock the Mexican · Post by **Bardock the Mexican** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:02 pm

I have to be honest when I say that no other DBZ game has diminished my equalibrium quite like "Shin Budokai" or whatever ya'll call it. I rented it for a day and a half and I would have taken it back yesterday. I will do somthing smart and get the non DB game Black instead...but I feel I have been ripped off by the people who made this and I think that one word says it:Bandai.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:01 pm

Eh, I gotta agree with Smooth Criminal here. The Budokai games aren't the deepest in the world, they're incredibly simple really. It's not an insult, just a fact. And this comes from someone who has played games in general from the Sega Master System thru the Xbox 360 (not owning the latter though, piece of overpriced junk ;p). It's fun, as a fan of the series, but calling it complex is just goofy.

Enjoy it for what it is: A big, simple money-shot to the DBZ fans out there. Nothing wrong with that.

-Corey

Kanzenshuu

Surprise, surprise. Shin Budokai sucks.

Surprise, surprise. Shin Budokai sucks.

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