Dale Kelly and FUNimation

[Attitudefan]

I was going to make a thread asking about what happened to Dale Kelly. He just disappeared from the net and had everything he did with FUNimation erased and replaced as if he never existed.

Turns out he is a cool dude who had ties with Rock and Metal bands before and after he did DBZ and was the guy to get bands on the DBZ films. He was the guy that understood anime purists should get a hold of the original. Instead, for American audiences, DBZ was getting its butt kicked by Batman Beyond and Dale Kelly understood that Batman Beyond's direction will help push DBZ into the stratosphere if directed the same way.

He got screwed by Funimation over music rights as he was supposed to make money off the entire deal from royalties as Funi was unwilling to pay him for the music. Funimation, apparently, was not even contractually (with Toei) supposed to replace the music in the first place!!! The interview hints that Sabat may have played a role in screwing Kelly over (and it all starts to make sense for why Young and Nadolney were replaced the way they were, for good or bad, without much notice). Sabat was the only one on a salary and, even though other actors could imitate the Ocean crew better, he was chosen to do all the voices because he was an employee (not a contracted talent like the other actors) and thus was cheaper for Funimation. For the purists and the Ocean fans out there, this interview is extremely revealing and may fuel your malcontent towards Funi even further. Seems like they treated their talent like trash to save a buck. They still left his screams and grunting in the "Remastered" dub.

In short, Dale Kelly had to pay for certain legal issues that stemmed from FUNi's legal blunders with the replacement music in the films.


Kelly was one of the only talents that had voice experience (20 years of it before his role in DBZ) and is why he stands out in those episodes compared to his contemporaries at the time (his Ginyu screams are still some of the best to be heard). To this day he is friends with bands like Dream Theatre (which is the coolest thing ever). It was also Funimation who wanted the "Monster Truck" direction for the narrator after they parted ways with Ocean.

I would love to see Dale Kelly again do some DBZ, even if in a fan parody. I always loved his performance despite being more of a fan of the Japanese and Ocean casts. Kelly is still one of my favourites and is probably my favourite Ginyu


Here's the interview: https://www.twitch.tv/thebalishchannel/v/38542717

And here's the original thread (which should have got more exposure than it did... I didn't even know this existed until today!): viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33123

[ABED]

He was the guy that understood anime purists should get a hold of the original. Instead, for American audiences, DBZ was getting its butt kicked by Batman Beyond and Dale Kelly understood that Batman Beyond's direction will help push DBZ into the stratosphere if directed the same way.

Here's the problem with that example - Terry was a high schooler. The music reflected the main character of the show and that world. DB isn't anything like that at all so the music wouldn't sound like it. BB takes place 50 years in the future, DB takes place in a world based on Kung Fu movies and Journey to the West. And the success of Batman Beyond being attributed to the music is ridiculous. Yeah it had a cool opening theme, but that wasn't what made people tune in week after week. DBZ wasn't getting it's butt kicked by BB, they weren't in direct competition.

In the interview, Dale is interesting and likable, but ignorant about Dragon Ball.

[NitroEX]

Pretty much. The more you dig into Funimation's past, the more shady business practises you discover. I had a low opinion of the company to begin with due to their creative choices, casting decisions and shoddy home releases but my opinion of them only lowered as time went on and I found out stories such as Dale's. Sure, they've done some good for the DB franchise with Kai but they've also left a lot of very large potholes in their wake due to their inexperience and incompetence during their early days.

I can't say I was a fan of Dale's voices in the series but from what I recall of the interview I think he mentions that he was given very specific direction for that (something about sounding like a frog?) so he can't really be blamed for a director's poor decisions. For what it's worth I thought his music for the specials was top notch and, in my opinion, more fitting for the tone of the series (and more professional sounding) than the Faulconer music ever was. He was clearly a talented guy and it's a shame he got chewed up and spat out the way he did. He clearly tried to help Funimation out wherever he could but unfortunately for him he was involved with a rotten company.

As for Sabat, I've never felt that he was the best man for the job and stuff like this only confirms a lot of the beliefs I had about him in the first place.

[ABED]

Questionable dubbing isn't a violation of business ethics, and while Dale's story is compelling, we are only getting his side of the story. I'll take Sabat any day over Kelly as his understanding of the show was better than Kelly's

stuff like this only confirms a lot of the beliefs I had about him in the first place.

This could be a case of confirmation bias.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

From an artistic standpoint I think Funimation redeemed most of the potholes left from their early days of dubbing Dragon Ball with Kai. Sure there was a level of preference in some questionable casting decisions (Schemmel getting Kaio-sama over Doc Morgan being the most notable) but for the most part it was a solid job.

Although, morally I do sympathize with Dale Kelly. His style of narration would be out of place in a faithful Dragon Ball dub (which Funimation wasn't doing at the time and it showed) but he was certainly talented and did what he could given the direction he had.

I too would be interested to hear Sabat's side of the story (if Geekdom101 is reading maybe this could be a topic for that part 2 interview with the man).

[NitroEX]

Questionable dubbing isn't a violation of business ethics,

No, it isn't. And that's not what I meant when I said business practices. I specifically said that "I had a low opinion of the company to begin with" (due to creative choices and home releases). The business side of things, such as the many disputes the company's had with actors and musicians, that came later once I researched and began to dig deeper into the company behind DBZ.

and while Dale's story is compelling, we are only getting his side of the story. I'll take Sabat any day over Kelly as his understanding of the show was better than Kelly's

I don't care about Sabat's understanding of the show (much of which came too late for him to even make a difference to DBZ anyway). He was likely just as ignorant and powerless as Kelly was back then and I don't see how any of this has any relevance to the legitimacy of Dale's story. Many Funimation and Sabat's fans are very quick to get defensive about negative things these people may have been involved with yet I see very little evidence brought up against this stuff. We know Funimation have burned bridges with people in the past and we know from multiple sources that they were very cheap with a lot of things.

stuff like this only confirms a lot of the beliefs I had about him in the first place.

This could be a case of confirmation bias.

Except that the evidence points to him not rising through a meritocratic system which lends truth to what what Dale is saying and my own beliefs. Sabat sounded close enough to a previous actor and that was all it took for him to break into the dubbing industry, not being chosen amongst other professionally trained actors. It might be uncomfortable for fans to swallow but that's what we know.

[precita]

Truthfully FUNimation is a horrible company, and I'm not surprised to hear all this shady stuff that went on especially a decade ago. I don't think they could get away with this stuff now, but as they say, the damage was done.

The only reason I don't mind FUNI still handling the franchise is because I've grown attached to the english dub cast, and their newer releases have been decent. Other than that I feel FUNI should have been run into the ground years ago.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Truthfully FUNimation is a horrible company, and I'm not surprised to hear all this shady stuff that went on especially a decade ago. I don't think they could get away with this stuff now, but as they say, the damage was done. The only reason I don't mind FUNI still handling the franchise is because I've grown attached to the english dub cast, and their newer releases have been decent. Other than that I feel FUNI should have been run into the ground years ago.

Dang, that's pretty harsh, but...you do realize that Dragon Ball isnt the only property FUNimation handles, right? It makes up only half their profits (yes, that's a huge portion, but still), & they have hundreds of other smaller shows. The only reason folks care about the DB dubs is because they were heavily localized.

From an artistic standpoint I think Funimation redeemed most of the potholes left from their early days of dubbing Dragon Ball with Kai. Sure there was a level of preference in some questionable casting decisions (Schemmel getting Kaio-sama over Doc Morgan being the most notable) but for the most part it was a solid job. Although, morally I do sympathize with Dale Kelly. His style of narration would be out of place in a faithful Dragon Ball dub (which Funimation wasn't doing at the time and it showed) but he was certainly talented and did what he could given the direction he had. I too would be interested to hear Sabat's side of the story (if Geekdom101 is reading maybe this could be a topic for that part 2 interview with the man).

I think from an artistic standpoint, a lot of people would say that they should leave the show as-is, so that everyone experience the show with its language intact. The main reason behind the criticisms of DB's dub isn't in that people wanted a better dub, but that they felt that it was difficult to talk with people about the actual show, because their exposure was through the Americanized dub. A lot of these folks would hope that DB, alongside the majority of other anime, be left as-is to appreciate the language which is of the culture that DB stems from (& hey, lipsync!)

* The people that the current dub caters to are still those that grew up with the Americanized dub. That's the real reason behind keeping all these old miscastings. As it is, I suppose I definitely appreciate the decent scripts, though that's mainly a side effect of having immediate access to accurate translations with the advent of ubiquitous WiFi. & we are very lucky to have Chris Ayres' Freeza. But the dub is ultimately intended as a continuation of their old dub. Attitudefan is right in pointing out that the fans of the show, would largely ignore any later dub. The fans who want a good dub are a minority, & fans of subs (which are much cheaper for companies anyway) wouldnt care about a good dub, as it is forced & in their minds, unnecessary.

[Attitudefan]

He was the guy that understood anime purists should get a hold of the original. Instead, for American audiences, DBZ was getting its butt kicked by Batman Beyond and Dale Kelly understood that Batman Beyond's direction will help push DBZ into the stratosphere if directed the same way.

Here's the problem with that example - Terry was a high schooler. The music reflected the main character of the show and that world. DB isn't anything like that at all so the music wouldn't sound like it. BB takes place 50 years in the future, DB takes place in a world based on Kung Fu movies and Journey to the West. And the success of Batman Beyond being attributed to the music is ridiculous. Yeah it had a cool opening theme, but that wasn't what made people tune in week after week. DBZ wasn't getting it's butt kicked by BB, they weren't in direct competition.

In the interview, Dale is interesting and likable, but ignorant about Dragon Ball.

Except, like Kai, the dub for DBZ isn't about accuracy but to hit home to American audiences. Huzaifa_ahmed said it best:

the dub is ultimately intended as a continuation of their old dub. Attitudefan is right in pointing out that the fans of the show, would largely ignore any later dub. The fans who want a good dub are a minority, & fans of subs (which are much cheaper for companies anyway) wouldnt care about a good dub, as it is forced & in their minds, unnecessary.

If one wants to have the closest and best rendition of the show, they seek out the original. Hell, it's why the Portuguese dub is popular because it caters to its audiences and today leaves nostalgic feelings for Portuguese fans. Like English audiences, if they want to see the unaltered, proper version, the original is available.

Hell, if FUNi was truly about accuracy, then King Kai would have been replaced long ago. Instead, Schemmel is still doing his parody Doc Brown voice for the character.

Kelly was right actually. This site exists for exactly what Kelly described. VegitoEX created this site based off his passion to seek out the originals and be a fan of that. While I do think dubs should be more faithful, I can totally understand why localization matters and how it affects audiences. In a twisted way, the localizations have kept DB interesting because of the many unique dubs that one can seek out and compare accuracy to the source. This site wouldn't be as interesting without these things going on.

As for Sabat, I've never felt that he was the best man for the job and stuff like this only confirms a lot of the beliefs I had about him in the first place.

Indeed. Kelly is a very talented man and probably the most talented at FUNi during that time period. Shocking FUNi would take his music and put that music on the special without any mixing. Sabat was friends with the people at FUNimation. No wonder he has his own studio now. No wonder he got rid of old cast members without informing them. If you know wrestling, he sounds like Hunter Hearst Helmsley and how he got to the top by being buddies with certain people and playing office politics... Makes me like Drummond more and more.

And yes, likely Sabat and all the other cast members were ignorant like Kelly still is today. I believe Schemmel admitted that he didn't really 'get' Dragon Ball until around Kai.

[8000 Saiyan]

This interview was interesting to listen to. Kelly did have talent and he was one of the standouts of the 1999 in-house dub. Unfortunately his narration wasn't fitting for Dragon Ball Z.

Truthfully FUNimation is a horrible company, and I'm not surprised to hear all this shady stuff that went on especially a decade ago. I don't think they could get away with this stuff now, but as they say, the damage was done.

The only reason I don't mind FUNI still handling the franchise is because I've grown attached to the english dub cast, and their newer releases have been decent. Other than that I feel FUNI should have been run into the ground years ago.

I wouldn't call Funimation a terrible company, they have improved since 1999, and they make good dubs even I find them to be kind of overrated and overused. With Kai and the recent stuff, they have proven themselves to be a decent company when it comes to dubbing Dragon Ball.

[floofychan333]

Just please don't bring back his music. It ruined Bardock for me.

[ABED]

Kelly was a standout but not the most talented. Both significant roles are awful, whether he was directed that way or not. Schemmel and Strait were better than him from the jump.

Except, like Kai, the dub for DBZ isn't about accuracy but to hit home to American audiences. Huzaifa_ahmed said it best:

And you're assuming the changes they made were the reason for DBZ's American success. Fans didn't ignore any later dub due to accuracy reasons. This whole "if you want accuracy, that's why the original exists, thus giving us carte blanche to do whatever we want" is just ridiculous. The American audiences will largely ignore it for several reasons that have NOTHING to do with accuracy. 1 - They've already seen the show, 2 - ratings for anything aren't as high as they used to be 15 years ago, 3 - The older audience generally wants what they know.

The people that the current dub caters to are still those that grew up with the Americanized dub. That's the real reason behind keeping all these old miscastings.
OR and I'm just putting this out there, the people making these sorts of decisions aren't fully consistent. Perhaps they want some things to stay the same like certain voices and change others, like writing accurate scripts changing some voices. It's not either/or, the decision makers can be inconsistent. And "real reason"? I didn't realize you were part of FUNi.

Kelly is wrong about the issue of need for fidelity to the original, he's wrong about the music (including attributing Batman Beyond's success to the music), and he wasn't a particularly good fit for either role he got.

If you know wrestling, he sounds like Hunter Hearst Helmsley and how he got to the top by being buddies with certain people and playing office politics

Bad example as HHH was the genuine article. He got to the top because he was good. Sure, he had friends, but he was over with the crowd and when he turned heel in 99, he became the hottest heel in years. He got over because of merit and that was before he ever dated the boss's daughter. Let's not forget that he was punished for the curtain call. All this talk about FUNi's shady business practices and you all are taking VA's words as gospel.