LGBT Dragon Ball Fanbase Experiences and Talk

[PelicanDynasty]

I'm going to second Gaffer Tape on this. We may not delve far into any of them, but heterosexual relationships are very much present in the series.

I think there's a bit of a false equivalence that goes around when people discuss the difficulties of adding gay characters to popular fiction. There's an odd assumption that to do so, you'd have to delve into the romantic or sexual side of their relationships in a way that has never been true for the portrayal of straight couples.

Which is to say, Dragon Ball could absolutely have some coupled gay characters. Their relationship wouldn't need to be any more foregrounded than Bulma and Vegeta's, Videl or Gohan's, Kuririn or 18's, etc. Hell, a male fighter in the upcoming multiversal tournament could simply walk back to his boyfriend in the stands.

Whether that light a depiction gets into tokenism or would simply be an equivalent representation and a natural one to include given the expansive size of the cast is another matter, and really one that comes down to execution.

This is veering back into the territory covered by the recent "Queerness in DB" thread. I don't want to take it back onto that track, but I did want to throw some support behind this post.

One of the main reasons they haven't touched it, I assume, is because it is always going to be seen as tokenism by a large part of the fanbase. When they showed Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend at the NFL draft, people were up in arms with the "Oh man they don't need to rub in our face that he's gay" kind of talk, even though they had no problem with the media showing a player kissing his girlfriend at the same event.

I'm not saying that is a good reason to not do it, but in your example at the tournament I can guarantee the talk of the episode would be the 5 second clip of the fighter and his boyfriend, rather than the 20 minutes of action.

[ecrockedboston]

But heterosexual relationships, desires, and urges ARE addressed in Dragon Ball, all the time: Goku and Chichi, Blooma and Yamucha, Blooma and Vegeta, Lunch and Tenshinhan, Gohan and Videl, Oolong and Kame'Sennin with anything with a vagina. Yes, it's shallow, but it's ever-present, often crucial to the plot, and yet they certainly don't seem shoehorned in. After all, the entire story of Dragon Ball is set in motion by a teenage girl's heterosexual desires.

I freely admit I'm no fan of tokenism, and sometimes it's all too easy for an inclusion of an under-represented group to feel that way instead of the organic outgrowth it needs to be in order to be successful. But it's hard for me to accept an argument against homosexual relationships with the justification that Dragon Ball doesn't need any sexuality at all. Because it's there. And using that reasoning often belies the true reason for hesitation: that they perceive heterosexual relationships as the norm and all else as a jarring deviation at best. It's an unconscious bias that allows people to look at a smorgasbord of heterosexuality examples and not even notice them but perceive any incursion of other sexualities as something that is jarring and can't be ignored.

Unless, of course, I'm misreading your statement, and you are expressing a wish that Dragon Ball literally hadn't addressed sexuality at all, including all of the heterosexual examples it has included over the years.

I'm going to second Gaffer Tape on this. We may not delve far into any of them, but heterosexual relationships are very much present in the series.

I think there's a bit of a false equivalence that goes around when people discuss the difficulties of adding gay characters to popular fiction. There's an odd assumption that to do so, you'd have to delve into the romantic or sexual side of their relationships in a way that has never been true for the portrayal of straight couples.

Which is to say, Dragon Ball could absolutely have some coupled gay characters. Their relationship wouldn't need to be any more foregrounded than Bulma and Vegeta's, Videl or Gohan's, Kuririn or 18's, etc. Hell, a male fighter in the upcoming multiversal tournament could simply walk back to his boyfriend in the stands.

Whether that light a depiction gets into tokenism or would simply be an equivalent representation and a natural one to include given the expansive size of the cast is another matter, and really one that comes down to execution.

This is veering back into the territory covered by the recent "Queerness in DB" thread. I don't want to take it back onto that track, but I did want to throw some support behind this post.

The real question is "would it add anything of value"? This is obviously a touchy subject, so I'm going to say my piece and be done with it. My answer to my question is "no". The type of genitals a character likes to play with or which hole they want to stick it in does not mean anything in a series about saving the world from destructive gods and aliens. The world exists because of hetero procreation, most fictions has a world that exists on the same basis. So you literally cannot have a world exist without heterosexuality being explored by some people's measure. Even if that is the case, I don't have much interest in seeing the complexities unfold.

[Cure Dragon 255]

While this topic was not meant for "WE WANT REPRESENTATION DAMMIT" in fact, this topic was mean to see how LGBT Dragon Ball Fans exist OUTSIDE of the Canon of the show, In the real world we had to represent ourselves in a world where we are not seen as the norm, that's kind of a sad way to think... IF I got you right., Even Toriyama had a badass gay villain who wasnt a horndog over Bulma, what Toei did to him be damned.

Could you please elaborate more? Are you saying "I dont care or want any gay characters at all" which again, is kind of a sad way to think or "I dont really lose any sleep over there not being gay characters,its just not that big a deal to me" which is a happier train of though. I dont really buy into the Tumblr "IF YOU DONT HAVE GAYS IN YOUR SHOW YOU ARE ERASING US". I wanted people to come here and share meaningful Dragon Ball related experiences with Lesbian,Gay, Bisexual or Trans experiences and memories

Again,this isnt for gay representation or militant whining. I just wanted a place(NOT one of those Safe Spaces) here on Kanzenshuu for that sort of thing.

[Basaku]

The real question is "would it add anything of value"?

Why does it need to add some mythical value to justify its existance? What unattainable value has Kamesennin watching dirty magazines with bikini girls versus hypotethical Kamesennin brother watching dirty magazines with speedo guys?

Marron will never be a relevant fighter (or even a non-fighting character, she said about 5 words in the past 20 years since introduced into the franchise). Kuririn/18's plot in Cell arc was not about procreating to 'create' a fighter who will kill Cell. It was about romantic interest. Would've worked the same if Kuririn was into 17 instead.

There are multiple instances of heterosexual context in DB franchise (and other fictional stories) where procreation has no part in the content's reason for being presented. I thought stating the obvious wouldn't be needed but here it is - sexuality, romantic interests, love etc. do not equal solely procreation as you present it. Not in real life and thus not in fiction either (which is always based in real life). Of course you're free to think love/sex should ONLY mean procreation. But that's not how majority of the planet thinks or acts, gay or straight.

[Cure Dragon 255]

But then we wouldnt have cute lil' Marron and I say that as a gay guy lol.

[Thanos]

I'm heterosexual. You're not. Awesome. Not a whole lot more to say on the subject, is there?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Okay, that was kind of rude.

[Soppa Saia People]

But then we wouldnt have cute lil' Marron and I say that as a gay guy lol.

You don't have to be straight to say "Man, that girl is pretty good looking", just like how you don't have to gay to say "That is one handsome man".

[Cure Dragon 255]

I see. Thanks for the tip. Glad you like participating in this conversation.

EDIT: I realized that you may may have meant I'm attracted to Marron,but I'm not. I meant that in a "Awwww such a sweet kid" way. I'm really sorry for assuming this of you but I had to make myself clear lol.

[Soppa Saia People]

I see. Thanks for the tip. Glad you like participating in this conversation.

EDIT: I realized that you may may have meant I'm attracted to Marron,but I'm not. I meant that in a "Awwww such a sweet kid" way. I'm really sorry for assuming this of you but I had to make myself clear lol.

I was speaking a general sense

[Cure Dragon 255]

Oh Ok. Thank god. I was scared for a minute. But yeah.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm heterosexual. You're not. Awesome. Not a whole lot more to say on the subject, is there?

Considering there has already been three pages of conversation on the subject, it looks like you're wrong. And needlessly rude. If you don't like a thread, you don't have to read it or post in it.

[swimtrunks]

I wanted people to come here and share meaningful Dragon Ball related experiences with Lesbian,Gay, Bisexual or Trans experiences and memories

But like others have said, what difference does it make? It's gonna be the exact same experiences and memories as a hetero's.

[DragonBallLove]

I guess is easy to fall for all those hot muscles <3

[ecrockedboston]

I'm heterosexual. You're not. Awesome. Not a whole lot more to say on the subject, is there?

Dude, that was pretty uncalled for. I get what you're saying, but you're not exactly adding to any discourse yourself.

[MasenkoHA]

Sorry for reviving a two month old thread but I thought the topic of LGBTQA characters in Dragon Ball interesting.


For one thing Dragon Ball is one of the few kids animated series where the main character is explicitly not heterosexual but asexual. Goku never expressed any sort of sexual desire. He married Chi Chi simply because he promised her when they were kids and he keeps his words even when he doesn't understand the promise. I don't think Goku would have mind if he married a dude if it was a promise. They obviously have sex (at least twice anyways) but you get the feeling Chi Chi initates it and Goku just goes with it. Goku cared about her and may love her like he loved any of his friends but he has no attraction to her. Asexuality seems to be a species wide thing as Saiyans seem to care more about fighting than romance and sex and sex is only for procreation purposes to make more warriors. We don't really know the full extent of what happened between Bulma and Vegeta that led to Trunks. Did Vegeta have a sexual interst in Bulma? Did he just want a child to carry on the Saiyan bloodline and she was there? Did he just need to get off? Or did Toriyama just want Vegeta to have a half-saiyan son and he only had a limited number of female characters? (the last one)

but we do know half-saiyans do have romantic desires (Gohan x Videl and Goten and Valace) I dont think Dragon Ball is the kind of series to do anything as controversial (for the 80s and 90s) as include a gay character but would have really changed anything if it turned out Goten or Trunks were a couple? I don't think so.

[DBZAOTA482]

I've always been a fan of Freeza for literally walking around naked, all the time

Cell did the same thing.

Cell was covered with the armor. Freeza was one step away from his penis flopping out

Whatchu talkin' about? We see Freeza letting that thang hang out all the time. He even smacks Goku with it.

[Gog]

Cell did the same thing.

Cell was covered with the armor. Freeza was one step away from his penis flopping out

Whatchu talkin' about? We see Freeza letting that thang hang out all the time. He even smacks Goku with it.

So does that make Freeza the biggest out of them all?

[DBZAOTA482]

So does that make Freeza the biggest out of them all?

Yes. That's one of the many reasons Vegeta hated him (because his thang's too little).

[floofychan333]

Sorry for reviving a two month old thread but I thought the topic of LGBTQA characters in Dragon Ball interesting.


For one thing Dragon Ball is one of the few kids animated series where the main character is explicitly not heterosexual but asexual. Goku never expressed any sort of sexual desire. He married Chi Chi simply because he promised her when they were kids and he keeps his words even when he doesn't understand the promise. I don't think Goku would have mind if he married a dude if it was a promise. They obviously have sex (at least twice anyways) but you get the feeling Chi Chi initates it and Goku just goes with it. Goku cared about her and may love her like he loved any of his friends but he has no attraction to her. Asexuality seems to be a species wide thing as Saiyans seem to care more about fighting than romance and sex and sex is only for procreation purposes to make more warriors. We don't really know the full extent of what happened between Bulma and Vegeta that led to Trunks. Did Vegeta have a sexual interst in Bulma? Did he just want a child to carry on the Saiyan bloodline and she was there? Did he just need to get off? Or did Toriyama just want Vegeta to have a half-saiyan son and he only had a limited number of female characters? (the last one)

but we do know half-saiyans do have romantic desires (Gohan x Videl and Goten and Valace) I dont think Dragon Ball is the kind of series to do anything as controversial (for the 80s and 90s) as include a gay character but would have really changed anything if it turned out Goten or Trunks were a couple? I don't think so.

I don't think Saiyajins are all asexual or are even intended to be asexual. Goku, sure, but I've always thought Vegeta is very heterosexual. Also, there's no evidence to suggest Bardock and King Vegeta were asexual.