leaves fate of his entire universe on two 7/8 year olds kids

[ChaosLordBrandon]

Complete Silence.

[MozillaVulpix]

The problem with that statement is there was a justification for it - at least initially. By Goku's logic, he actually didn't know at first if he could beat Buu using Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta was dead, Gohan was seemingly dead. Goten and Trunks were the only people who could potentially be strong enough to beat Buu. It was the best plan.

I both love and hate how in the Kid Buu fight, Goku says that he actually could have beaten him with Super Saiyan 3. I appreciate why it happens and why it had to happen, but it feels like a retcon that makes Goku look far more selfish than he was initially portrayed at the start of the story.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

The problem with that statement is there was a justification for it - at least initially. By Goku's logic, he actually didn't know at first if he could beat Buu using Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta was dead, Gohan was seemingly dead. Goten and Trunks were the only people who could potentially be strong enough to beat Buu. It was the best plan.

I both love and hate how in the Kid Buu fight, Goku says that he actually could have beaten him with Super Saiyan 3. I appreciate why it happens and why it had to happen, but it feels like a retcon that makes Goku look far more selfish than he was initially portrayed at the start of the story.

Yeah I agree with you there.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I cant believe people think Goku doing this was the "Mature" thing to do.

[dbgtFO]

Well they were the only hope and he's right they shouldn't rely on him.
Even if Goku could have prevented it all, might makes right and that should have been the real lesson to Gohan and the others. You can't allow yourself to slack off, because then someone might come along, who won't be as forgiving as Goku.
A deeper take on the Buu arc could be Goku coming back with the expectation of his son having gone to the limits of his power, only to be disappointed with the direction he went in and thus, when the chance presented itself he decided to punish him for his negligence by conspiring to release Buu.

[MisteryOne]

The problem with that statement is there was a justification for it - at least initially. By Goku's logic, he actually didn't know at first if he could beat Buu using Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta was dead, Gohan was seemingly dead. Goten and Trunks were the only people who could potentially be strong enough to beat Buu. It was the best plan.

I both love and hate how in the Kid Buu fight, Goku says that he actually could have beaten him with Super Saiyan 3. I appreciate why it happens and why it had to happen, but it feels like a retcon that makes Goku look far more selfish than he was initially portrayed at the start of the story.

Yeah I agree with you there.

Me too. The Kid Boo fight looked like it was trying to force SS3 being a big deal, a powerful form, and while it is, it got quickly surpased by both Gotenks and Gohan, so I could not stop thinking that the tension was pretty forced (The entire arc was forced anyway, specially since Gotenks got absorbed). I mean, I could not stop thinking that, have Vegito, Gotenks or Gohan being there, they should have easily defeated Kid Boo. The whole «I could have defeated him with the SS3» is in fact a line that shouldn't be there to begin with. I mean, if I was planing to have Kid Boo dying because of the Gendikama, I would never add that SS3 Goku could kill him at full power. It was really unnecesary IMO and it didn't help the story.

[MisteryOne]

Well they were the only hope and he's right they shouldn't rely on him.
Even if Goku could have prevented it all, might makes right and that should have been the real lesson to Gohan and the others. You can't allow yourself to slack off, because then someone might come along, who won't be as forgiving as Goku.
A deeper take on the Buu arc could be Goku coming back with the expectation of his son having gone to the limits of his power, only to be disappointed with the direction he went in and thus, when the chance presented itself he decided to punish him for his negligence by conspiring to release Buu.

I don't really think Toriyama was trying to show that message if Ultimate Gohan was not going to be the one to defeat Buu. I mean, in the end, it was Goku who did it. Not alone, but still, without him, they would have never stond a chance against Bootenks and so on.

[dbgtFO]

I don't really think Toriyama was trying to show that message if Ultimate Gohan was not going to be the one to defeat Buu. I mean, in the end, it was Goku who did it. Not alone, but still, without him, they would have never stond a chance against Bootenks and so on.

Yeah, I'm not saying that is what Toriyama did. I'm saying he could have done it like that.

[Kaboom]

I guess some discussion has stemmed from it regardless, but next time can we maybe put a little more meaningful content into our threads when we start them?