Did Super ruin some characters for you?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

At least Videl was already uninteresting. The only time she ever shined was in the Saiyaman and very early Boo Arcs.

So ... basically any time she's given something to do?

Exactly that.

[Israelite Wolfman]

Gohan is the most ruined character for me in Super (not counting Goku's drop in IQ from the Buu Saga). In the End of Z it seemed like he at least maintained his Ultimate/Mystic powers 10 years after the Majin Buu conflict/crisis to a degree, now he's a character who loses his powers and will to fight in each saga despite promising to train to protect his family every time a conflict rises/ends (he did train before the U6 tournament after he realized he was to blame for Piccolo's death in the RoF arc, also when he heard of the Goku Black conflict in the last phase of the Future Trunks arc). It's like Toei do not know what to do with him at all or afraid he'll take Goku's place.

[TekTheNinja]

Well i'll tell you who it ruined..

Vegetto!!!

By nerfing him? Cheat codes are a bad thing. The fact that they brought Vegetto down a few pegs wasn't a problem, the fact that they blatantly contradicted previous explanations was.

If anything, Vegetto is better now that they don't have the option of abusing him.

What? If anything now they have even more reason to overuse Vegito since it's not permanent anymore. This is honestly infuriating to me.

At least Videl was already uninteresting. The only time she ever shined was in the Saiyaman and very early Boo Arcs.

So ... basically any time she's given something to do?

Exactly that.

So you just disproved your own point. She was VERY interesting.

[Lujin_16]

So change means ruined??? Gohan in Super is like the Gohan in the beginning of Z,Vegeta changed a little bit he cares more about family now and it's not
a bad thing,Gohan & Trunks are the same and the rest are the same as we know them...

[TekTheNinja]

So change means ruined??? Gohan in Super is like the Gohan in the beginning of Z,Vegeta changed a little bit he cares more about family now and it's not
a bad thing,Gohan & Trunks are the same and the rest are the same as we know them...

Completely having a character's personality entirely changed at the drop of a hat to something less favorable than before? Yes, that's ruining a character.

[Gogetto]

So, on my list of favorite characters:

* Vegeta: he would have been ruined if his personality completely changed. Vegeta is still kind of an arrogant, hot-blooded jerk, just not as much as before. Several moments in Super showcased his character development. If there is an interesting character here, it's him.

* Goku: for reasons already stated before, I believed he has been ruined.

* Gohan: some people tend to think that Gohan not being as badass as he was in Cell Games is ruining his character. Remember, the SSJ2 was a huge out-of-character moment for him. So, if you only like Gohan when he kicks ass...you're not really fan of his character. Up until Cell Games and Boo arc, Gohan was always fodder. So, Super has done nothing to ruin this character (yet).

* Piccolo: Fodder and comic relief since Boo arc. Super is not responsible, and they actually tried to make him useful twice (they failed, but points for trying). I like his scenes with Pan, though.

* Future Trunks: never felt like he was much different from his Androids arc self, but it's obvious that he suffered a lot of emotional damage, justifiably so. The arc he was in actually served to brutally ruin the happy emding that he worked so hard to earn. Damn you, Zamasu !

Well, 1/5, not bad, I guess.

[Lujin_16]

So change means ruined??? Gohan in Super is like the Gohan in the beginning of Z,Vegeta changed a little bit he cares more about family now and it's not
a bad thing,Gohan & Trunks are the same and the rest are the same as we know them...

Completely having a character's personality entirely changed at the drop of a hat to something less favorable than before? Yes, that's ruining a character.

So you like to see the same shit again?? Vegeta's pride withhout learning something new??? Gohan was always like that not a fighter who loves fighting
If you like the character just only for fighting and nothings else that's your problem for me they ruined nothing

[MrBlackFox]

Goten / Kid Trunks, at least 'til their apparent return to arms in 77

Chi - Chi, annoying like a power pole extended right in the ass

Future Trunks, from brave, smart, bulky badass hero into e blue haired pussy who ends up as bigger loser in the series

Vegito, awesome design in blue, but I'll never love that retcon on fusion duration

Goku, a fuckin' retard, with no more traces of seriousness

Gohan so far, but it's coming back so i'm fine


The worst for me is FT, was my favourite character since I started loving DB, but now it's hard

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Well i'll tell you who it ruined..

Vegetto!!!

By nerfing him? Cheat codes are a bad thing. The fact that they brought Vegetto down a few pegs wasn't a problem, the fact that they blatantly contradicted previous explanations was.

If anything, Vegetto is better now that they don't have the option of abusing him.

What? If anything now they have even more reason to overuse Vegito since it's not permanent anymore. This is honestly infuriating to me.

You're forgetting the fact that their time is cut down to jack shit if they use a significant amount of power. Vegetto is broken, he doesn't work with the time limit in place and that's a good thing.

So ... basically any time she's given something to do?

Exactly that.

So you just disproved your own point. She was VERY interesting.

No, she had the potential to be interesting, and when they capitalized on that it worked. They didn't capitalize on her enough to call it interesting, only potentially interesting.

[TekTheNinja]

By nerfing him? Cheat codes are a bad thing. The fact that they brought Vegetto down a few pegs wasn't a problem, the fact that they blatantly contradicted previous explanations was.

If anything, Vegetto is better now that they don't have the option of abusing him.

What? If anything now they have even more reason to overuse Vegito since it's not permanent anymore. This is honestly infuriating to me.

You're forgetting the fact that their time is cut down to jack shit if they use a significant amount of power. Vegetto is broken, he doesn't work with the time limit in place and that's a good thing.

Exactly that.

So you just disproved your own point. She was VERY interesting.

No, she had the potential to be interesting, and when they capitalized on that it worked. They didn't capitalize on her enough to call it interesting, only potentially interesting.

That's not how it works. She was interesting when she was actually there before and you admitted it.

So you like to see the same shit again?? Vegeta's pride withhout learning something new??? Gohan was always like that not a fighter who loves fighting
If you like the character just only for fighting and nothings else that's your problem for me they ruined nothing

It's like you didn't listen to what I just said at all, dude.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

You're the one who doesn't get how it works. I refuse to give credit to Toriyama and Toei for something that they could have done. Videl being relevant and interesting for less than 10 episodes (5 chapters?) total doesn't make her interesting.

[Cipher]

I don't think it needs to be overintellectualized (it is a rare day you'll catch me saying that on this forum!).

Videl is a distinct, enjoyable character for the entirety of her presence in the Z/the manga (especially in Z, actually, with her expanded screentime). In Super, she's boring.

Of all character in Super, I think Videl has faired the worst. Checking in on her and Gohan, two well-intentioned ex-martial arts-superheroes living a domestic life, should be the best thing in the world. It never is.

[TekTheNinja]

You're the one who doesn't get how it works. I refuse to give credit to Toriyama and Toei for something that they could have done. Videl being relevant and interesting for less than 10 episodes (5 chapters?) total doesn't make her interesting.

Dude, this is simple. In Z when she was there she was interesting. In Super, when she's here she's a boring housewife. How much she was used in Z is irrelevant.

[HybridSaiyan]

You're the one who doesn't get how it works. I refuse to give credit to Toriyama and Toei for something that they could have done. Videl being relevant and interesting for less than 10 episodes (5 chapters?) total doesn't make her interesting.

Dude, this is simple. In Z when she was there she was interesting. In Super, when she's here she's a boring housewife. How much she was used in Z is irrelevant.

Agreed. I always loved her tomboyish spark and her old design. She just seems completely different. If they were wanting a change, Toei / Toriyama could have just used her EOZ haircut. At least that still resembles Videl.

[Lord Beerus]

You're the one who doesn't get how it works. I refuse to give credit to Toriyama and Toei for something that they could have done. Videl being relevant and interesting for less than 10 episodes (5 chapters?) total doesn't make her interesting.

Gotta side with Jinzoningen MULE on this one. Videl's character never really went through any significant character evolution in Z beyond her baseline generic tomboyish girl characterisation, which in itself, didn't last long. We see a brief glimpse of her in EOZ, but it's really nothing of importance to note.

[emperior]

For me, it ruined Videl, even though she has been mostly fine during her last appearances. I also don't like how Goten has been portrayed, while Kid Trunks has been fine, especially in Future Trunks arc.

[Lord Beerus]

For me, it ruined Videl, even though she has been mostly fine during her last appearances. I also don't like how Goten has been portrayed, while Kid Trunks has been fine, especially in Future Trunks arc.

To play devil's advocate, did Goten even have that much of a character to even begin with?

[emperior]

For me, it ruined Videl, even though she has been mostly fine during her last appearances. I also don't like how Goten has been portrayed, while Kid Trunks has been fine, especially in Future Trunks arc.

To play devil's advocate, did Goten even have that much of a character to even begin with?

He didn't, in fact the thing I dislike the most is the fact they refuse to give him character, even though he is supposed to be aging, at least mentally. But it seems like he is stuck in a 6 years old body and mind. I get that he's Goku's son and lives in the country, but Gohan was even more mature than Goten when he was 4 years old. Only very recently they are starting to show Goten somewhat getting more mature.

[Lord Beerus]

For me, it ruined Videl, even though she has been mostly fine during her last appearances. I also don't like how Goten has been portrayed, while Kid Trunks has been fine, especially in Future Trunks arc.

To play devil's advocate, did Goten even have that much of a character to even begin with?

He didn't, in fact the thing I dislike the most is the fact they refuse to give him character, even though he is supposed to be aging, at least mentally. But it seems like he is stuck in a 6 years old body and mind. I get that he's Goku's son and lives in the country, but Gohan was even more mature than Goten when he was 4 years old. Only very recently they are starting to show Goten somewhat getting more mature.

To be fair the circumstances of Gohan's childhood and Goten's childhood were greatly different. Goten's upbringing was during an era of peace, whereas Gohan had to deal with the likes of of Piccolo, Raditz, Vegeta, Nappa, The Ginyu Force, Freeza and Cell before he even reached double digits of age. So naturally, Gohan would have no other choice but to mature at a much faster rate than children normally would have to so that he would be mentally and physically prepared for the immense dangers he would have to face and the great responsibilities on his shoulders.

[szopman]

I think that the most wasted/ruined characters in DBS are:
Goku - for obvious reasons
Piccolo - he's now more like comic relief ;/
Krillin - why Toei makes him such a coward in DBS? First in RoF saga he was afraid of Frieza's soldiers which he normally would beat easily. And later in fillers he was again afraid of fighting. + He was hurt after being shot ;O WTF.
and Gohan. I don't mind his personality, cause I think that his personality is presented as it should be. He never was into fighting, always wanted to be a schoolar and he always cared for his family. So I think his personality was well developed. But ... his power level. 7 years after Cell Games, he was a little bit weaker but he still could transform easily into SSJ2. In BoG, which takes place 4,5 years after Buu Saga, he still uses his Mystic form. And ONE years later, in RoF, he can't even maintain his SSJ1 transformation for more than a moment. Again, WTF? That doesn't even make sense. How could he become so weak in just one year? From Mystic (wich is more or less equivalent to SSJ3) to SSJ1. While Goten or Trunks still can easily transform into SSJ1 without any problems. So technically, in RoF, the kids are stronger than Gohan. That's insane! Especially that he's the one with the biggest potential.
I hope he will become again Mystic Gohan in the new saga.

About F.Trunks - I don't think his character was wasted in the previous saga. I really liked how he was portrayed in the Black Saga. And it's nice that he became far stronger than he was in Cell Saga. I think this character deserved that