Vegeta [fight against jheese]

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ahill1
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Vegeta [fight against jheese]

Post by ahill1 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:41 pm

I want to discuss the overall Vegeta against Jheese. I'll start with two questions, which will be the ones I'd like you guys to reply [even though I'll make a quick analyze basing it upon on these questions]

1- How powerful was Vegeta against Jheese? Power level wise, how would you estimate the number that appeared on Jheese's scouter when Vegeta taunted him to look at it?

2-Could Vegeta access [against jheese] the same power he showed against 1st form Freeza?


Let's go:


1- That's debatable. First, we have Vegeta post Zenkai showing fear towards the level Goku used against the Ginyus, saying he is the legendary warrior and speculating he might be a SSJ. This implies Vegeta wasn't at that level yet, as he treated Goku like some sort of God:

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Then, it's said by Goku that post Zenkai Vegeta is strong enough to take out Jheese. Vegeta confirms with this that Goku realized about the Zenkais:

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Later, Vegeta runs from the fight, stating that Goku and Ginyu's capabilities are pretty much the same and that if they kill each other that would be good for him. That leads us to conclude Vegeta is below Goku and Ginyu, at whatever level he estimated for them.

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Vegeta, upon hearing that Ginyu possessed Kakarot's power and that such body can reach a power level of 180k+, is pretty nervous, not to mention being pretty scared upon realizing Ginyu is approaching, further implying he still can't handle such level of power:

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Yet, right after it Vegeta says he is approaching Super Saiya-jin and that's the reason his strength is so great. After feeling the weight of his blows, Ginyu thinks possessing Vegeta's body will give him the win against guys who were outstripping him in Goku's body, which doesn't make sense if Vegeta were below 180k, which is the power he associed to Goku's true power:

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Goku, when back at his body and back to his ability at sensing chi, also says it'll be the end if Ginyu possess Vegeta's body, which further indicates Vegeta is also stronger than whatever level himself showed at Ginyu:

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But all of this clashes with Vegeta fearing Ginyu and Goku, or treating Goku like a God, who was only accessing a BP of ~60k.


2- This is also somewhat debatable. Vegeta says to Jheese that he's approaching the SSJ, something he repeats against Freeza:

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This is the same thing he says to Freeza, without noting nothing of feeling way stronger after the nap. He says Gohan and Kuririn are steadily raising in power but makes a distinction for himself:

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But at the same time, before facing 1st form Freeza, Vegeta has no confidence in taking him without the immortality, going as far as to say he'll just someday defeat Freeza, that is, not something of a foreseeable future. That doesn't make sense considering he showed confidence against 1st form Freeza and a hypothetical 2nd form Freeza, to which he thought wouldn't change this much:

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Re: Vegeta [fight against jheese]

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:11 pm

I'd say that Vegeta rose in power in slow pace from the battle with Recoome till he faced Frieza (all happens in the same day in about 4 hours). Before getting a Senzu bean I'd say Vegeta was at a 3,000 after all the beating he took from Recoome. After the Senzu zenkai he got buffed and his power is 35,000 as he was still afraid of the Ginyu Force before realizing Goku is far above them. Then when Jeice ran away his power level kept on rising steep to about 50,000 (rivaling Jeice) and his lust for revenge at his bullies made him kill them effortlessly. When Jeice returns with Captain Ginyu, Vegeta is stated by Goku to now be strong enough to take care of Jeice, which places him at 60,000 IMO. Vegeta approves this but sees the opportunity of snatching the Dragon Balls + his fear from Ginyu IIRC and ran off. While fighting Jeice in the anime I'd say he began with a suppressed level of 45,000 to enjoy himself before killing Jeice with a 75,000 genocide breaker. When he faught Ginyu in Goku's body he was at 60,000 again so Ginyu who was adapting with, let's say, a 35,000 power was completely nothing to him. When Ginyu was forced back into his old dying purple shell he was at 70,000, Vegeta's rage at Ginyu's mockery led him to raise himself to 100,000 but that just wasn't enough to kill Ginyu. After this was over Vegeta felt exhausted as he spent a few days without any sleep filled with the adrenalin from the chases after the Namekian Dragon Balls and the haunting by Frieza's forces, he went to sleep for another hour IIRC before Frieza got back, this helped him complete the Senzu zenkai effect: reaching a battle power of 250,000 at regular calm state = 50% of strength. When fighting Frieza in his first form he uses 100% of his power to stop the tyrant, rivaling his 530,000, I'd say he reached a 500,000 as it seems logical with his stated 250k doubled to form a 100%. Frieza's second form however is at 1,060,000 which pummels him with ease. The zenkai he got from Krillin's blast and healing by Dende must have took him to 2,500,000 (stronger than Frieza's third form who IMO is at 2,120,000) but still weaker than Final Form Frieza's fracture of power with 3,000,000 (to match Goku), no way he could slay geets with 1% of his true power (120,000,000).

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Re: Vegeta [fight against jheese]

Post by mcdjbeatz » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:32 pm

1. Let's break it down, Vegeta>Jheese as he easily obliterated him,When Vegeta first achieved his zenkai I don't think Vegeta realized the full extent of the power that the zenkai had granted him as he freaking out over the prospect of Goku becoming a super saiyan implying Goku>Vegeta. When Vegeta was running away and talking about Ginyu and Goku's capablities being similar and hoping they would take each out I interpret that as Vegeta not wanting to inconvenience him by having to take them out himself rather than him being unable to defeat them. Defeating them would put his desire of becoming immortal at risk as he knew it would stall him long enough to where the earthlings could potentially make their wish. He is likely below a kaioken Goku as Vegeta was quite annoyed and worried at the prospect of having to fight Ginyu due to having felt Goku's power. Vegeta claimed to be close to becoming a super saiyan which implies that he was around Goku's level due to thinking that Goku was a super saiyan prior. Due to all of this I conclude that Vegeta was at 60,000 when first getting the zenkai but was at 130,000 when he fought Jheese.

2. I don't think Vegeta could have accessed the same power that he used against Jheese. This is because Vegeta seemed quite tired due to feeling the need to take a nap and I don't blame him after all he was likely very sleep deprived and was likely mentally exhausted which I think affected his performance and ability to fight. After resting he was able to fully use the power that the zenkai had granted him and was able to go toe to toe with First Form Frieza

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Re: Vegeta [fight against jheese]

Post by dragonball0900 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:22 pm

I agree with the post above, since that's the same interpretation I have as well. I always assumed that Vegeta got close to 1st Form Frieza's power only after his nap.

So I guess it's like this:

Vegeta (right after his zenkai) - 60,000

Vegeta (against Jeice) - 160,000 (my chosen number)

Vegeta (post nap) - 480,000 (I assume his power got 3 times the strenght from before, it's enough to rival Frieza, but still ending up more tired than him)

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ahill1
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Re: Vegeta [fight against jheese]

Post by ahill1 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 pm

While there are points implying Vegeta got stronger after fighting Jheese, I find strange he wouldn't mention it when facing Freeza. He states to Jheese he is approaching the SSJ and says the same thing when fighting Freeza, only mentioning Gohan and Kuririn as the ones increasing their powers constantly.

How do you guys see this line?

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Does it imply Vegeta will get even stronger due to a delayed Zenkai?

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