Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

sintzu · Post by **sintzu** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:35 am

Ki Breaker wrote:Holy shit seriously.

Maybe it's the type of word that no one cares how it's written.

Meshack · Post by **Meshack** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:06 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
sintzu wrote: I think I've been using weather for the past 10 years or so and no one's ever corrected it.
Holy shit seriously

Zamasu55 wrote:So they mentioned Buu's healing abilities...
They did a wonderful job with Freeza, but I still believe they threw him in only because they can't handle a character like Majin Buu. He has everything.
Buu is too broken, as long as he remains such he is destined to be forever sidelined..

I wouldn’t say “forever sidelined”.

Ki Breaker · Post by **Ki Breaker** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:30 pm

Meshack wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:
sintzu wrote: I think I've been using weather for the past 10 years or so and no one's ever corrected it.
Holy shit seriously

Zamasu55 wrote:So they mentioned Buu's healing abilities...
They did a wonderful job with Freeza, but I still believe they threw him in only because they can't handle a character like Majin Buu. He has everything.
Buu is too broken, as long as he remains such he is destined to be forever sidelined..
I wouldn’t say “forever sidelined”.

And I wouldn't nitpick words when the meaning is apparent but to each their own

But seriously, unless it's uub related there's a fat chance ha! of him becoming somewhat relevant..

JazzMazz · Post by **JazzMazz** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:14 am

So, I decided to buy the Viz edition of the second volume of the manga. After reading the volume in hard copy, specifically for the Hit fight, I have to say, that Hit was definitely handled better as a character in the anime, and his fight against Goku was also far more memorable.

In the manga, I felt Toyo completely failed at capturing the stoic though principled assassin idea that the anime executed so well, and we instead just ended up with another generic Dragonball villain that lost his cool every single time something wasn't going his way. I think this really comes down to Toyo making Hit far too expressive than in the anime. The anime made Hit go through some sort of character arc against Goku, by at first making him completely indifferent and unemotional at the beginning of the fight, to being invested and enjoying the fight to the point of even visibly grinning at Goku as he was forced to improve alongside his foe. In the manga, Hit being so emotive doesn't really set any sort of arc for him to go through character wise. He just maintains the same attitude throughout the entire fight. Hell, he even doesn't get the opportunity to demonstrate how principled he is as a fighter in manga, which was something that added at least a superficial level of depth to Hits character in the anime.

As for the fight itself, its completely one-sided and pretty dull because of it. How are we supposed to invest in a fight when only one side is being constantly impressed, while the other is literally toying with them throughout the entire thing? At least in the anime they bothered to make it seem like the outcome of the fight was extremely up in the air, and did a good job of giving both sides an advantage over the other, in order to make the fight not completely one sided. In the end, the manga fight just doesn't have anything really noteable to remember it by to make it worth revisiting.

The anime interpretation is far from being anything of a perfect character, and his fight with Goku in the tournament is littered with problems, but at the very least its a somewhat entertaining spectacle, with lots of unpredictable twists and turns to turn up who has the advantage in the fight to make it more interesting. Those are things I sadly can't say for the manga, which pretty much is played the fight the most straight forward and predictable way possible.

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:46 pm

I will do the comparison of the manga and anime when both version are over with the new tournament.

JazzMazz wrote:Snip.

Yeah this is the main problem with toyotaro,he just sucks at handling the antagonist,it gets worse with black.the line of vegeta being 10x weaker ruin hit victory and made thing very confusing.The finale like you said was really anticlimatic.

I honestly think vegeta ruined the manga,he just make all the antagonist chumps and his line in the current chapter made me scratch my head,the manga is way better when he is not shown,all the best chapter in the TOP currently are the one he is no present.

Thankfully toppo is actually pretty strong and cool along with jiren so maybe they will break the streak of lame antagonist,it will be very ironic if that happens.

supersaiyanZero · Post by **supersaiyanZero** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:09 pm

The gr wrote:I will do the comparison of the manga and anime when both version are over with the new tournament.
JazzMazz wrote:Snip.
Yeah this is the main problem with toyotaro,he just sucks at handling the antagonist,it gets worse with black.the line of vegeta being 10x weaker ruin hit victory and made thing very confusing.The finale like you said was really anticlimatic.
I honestly think vegeta ruined the manga,he just make all the antagonist chumps and his line in the current chapter made me scratch my head,the manga is way better when he is not shown,all the best chapter in the TOP currently are the one he is no present.
Thankfully toppo is actually pretty strong and cool along with jiren so maybe they will break the streak of lame antagonist,it will be very ironic if that happens.

I actually liked Hit in the manga. In the anime he was just another generic, crazy strong silent type that wouldn't be nearly as popular if his design wasn't so good. There's almost no difference between him and Jiren.

perucho1990 · Post by **perucho1990** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:13 pm

Manga Jiren is probably the best character Toyotaro has done. the man needs to follow the Hero Academia path and 2018 could be his breakout year.

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:25 pm

JazzMazz wrote:So, I decided to buy the Viz edition of the second volume of the manga. After reading the volume in hard copy, specifically for the Hit fight, I have to say, that Hit was definitely handled better as a character in the anime, and his fight against Goku was also far more memorable.

In the manga, I felt Toyo completely failed at capturing the stoic though principled assassin idea that the anime executed so well, and we instead just ended up with another generic Dragonball villain that lost his cool every single time something wasn't going his way. I think this really comes down to Toyo making Hit far too expressive than in the anime. The anime made Hit go through some sort of character arc against Goku, by at first making him completely indifferent and unemotional at the beginning of the fight, to being invested and enjoying the fight to the point of even visibly grinning at Goku as he was forced to improve alongside his foe. In the manga, Hit being so emotive doesn't really set any sort of arc for him to go through character wise. He just maintains the same attitude throughout the entire fight. Hell, he even doesn't get the opportunity to demonstrate how principled he is as a fighter in manga, which was something that added at least a superficial level of depth to Hits character in the anime.

Yeah the U6 Kai tell us Hit does not talk that much and that Goku making him speak that much was suposed to be a special case,yet as soon as Goku steps in the ring Hit does not shut up lol.
In the anime Hit was slowly warming up and gaining more respect for Goku the more the fight went on and that worked,because Goku was even risking his own life so he could have a good fight with him so in the end when Goku realised that Hit was not going all out and he surrendered because of that it had more impact on Hit as Goku showed tremendous respect for him during the whole duration of their fight.

The gr wrote:I will do the comparison of the manga and anime when both version are over with the new tournament.
JazzMazz wrote:Snip.
Yeah this is the main problem with toyotaro,he just sucks at handling the antagonist,it gets worse with black.the line of vegeta being 10x weaker ruin hit victory and made thing very confusing.The finale like you said was really anticlimatic.
I honestly think vegeta ruined the manga,he just make all the antagonist chumps and his line in the current chapter made me scratch my head,the manga is way better when he is not shown,all the best chapter in the TOP currently are the one he is no present.
Thankfully toppo is actually pretty strong and cool along with jiren so maybe they will break the streak of lame antagonist,it will be very ironic if that happens.

Yeah you are correct on that,when Vegeta is on panel Toyotaro seems to make it his priority to show him on a good light instead of telling the story so it makes sense that the best chapters so far are the one Vegeta is not present.

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:35 pm

Whatever wrote: Yeah you are correct on that,when Vegeta is on panel Toyotaro seems to make it his priority to show him on a good light instead of telling the story so it makes sense that the best chapters so far are the one Vegeta is not present.

His battle are also not good,the worst battle currently is vegeta vs beerus and the previous saga are both vegeta vs black,you see the pattern here.Man i'm scared of his role in the battle royale,toppo or jiren better nut kicked that fool off the ring before he ruined everyone else,holy hell i'm smelling jiren being overpowered by vegeta for the stupidest reason.

BlueVegerot · Post by **BlueVegerot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:48 pm

The gr wrote:
Whatever wrote: Yeah you are correct on that,when Vegeta is on panel Toyotaro seems to make it his priority to show him on a good light instead of telling the story so it makes sense that the best chapters so far are the one Vegeta is not present.
His battle are also not good,the worst battle currently is vegeta vs beerus and the previous saga are both vegeta vs black,you see the pattern here.Man i'm scared of his role in the battle royale,toppo or jiren better nut kicked that fool off the ring before he ruined everyone else,holy hell i'm smelling jiren being overpowered by vegeta for the stupidest reason.

Are you stupid? How did you turn manga vs anime into some weird "OMg vegeta too strong hurr durr". Going by your pfp i assume you are an unbearable gokufanboy.

BlueVegerot · Post by **BlueVegerot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:49 pm

Whatever wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:So, I decided to buy the Viz edition of the second volume of the manga. After reading the volume in hard copy, specifically for the Hit fight, I have to say, that Hit was definitely handled better as a character in the anime, and his fight against Goku was also far more memorable.

In the manga, I felt Toyo completely failed at capturing the stoic though principled assassin idea that the anime executed so well, and we instead just ended up with another generic Dragonball villain that lost his cool every single time something wasn't going his way. I think this really comes down to Toyo making Hit far too expressive than in the anime. The anime made Hit go through some sort of character arc against Goku, by at first making him completely indifferent and unemotional at the beginning of the fight, to being invested and enjoying the fight to the point of even visibly grinning at Goku as he was forced to improve alongside his foe. In the manga, Hit being so emotive doesn't really set any sort of arc for him to go through character wise. He just maintains the same attitude throughout the entire fight. Hell, he even doesn't get the opportunity to demonstrate how principled he is as a fighter in manga, which was something that added at least a superficial level of depth to Hits character in the anime.
Yeah the U6 Kai tell us Hit does not talk that much and that Goku making him speak that much was suposed to be a special case,yet as soon as Goku steps in the ring Hit does not shut up lol.
In the anime Hit was slowly warming up and gaining more respect for Goku the more the fight went on and that worked,because Goku was even risking his own life so he could have a good fight with him so in the end when Goku realised that Hit was not going all out and he surrendered because of that it had more impact on Hit as Goku showed tremendous respect for him during the whole duration of their fight.

The gr wrote:I will do the comparison of the manga and anime when both version are over with the new tournament.
JazzMazz wrote:Snip.
Yeah this is the main problem with toyotaro,he just sucks at handling the antagonist,it gets worse with black.the line of vegeta being 10x weaker ruin hit victory and made thing very confusing.The finale like you said was really anticlimatic.
I honestly think vegeta ruined the manga,he just make all the antagonist chumps and his line in the current chapter made me scratch my head,the manga is way better when he is not shown,all the best chapter in the TOP currently are the one he is no present.
Thankfully toppo is actually pretty strong and cool along with jiren so maybe they will break the streak of lame antagonist,it will be very ironic if that happens.
Yeah you are correct on that,when Vegeta is on panel Toyotaro seems to make it his priority to show him on a good light instead of telling the story so it makes sense that the best chapters so far are the one Vegeta is not present.

keep your vegeta hateboner hidden better next time. Showing vegeta in a good light? you mean like he did with goku having 0 resonsibility for the erasure or how goku was easily wrecking hit unlike the anime? Goku fanboys are fucking unbearable

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:09 pm

Wait how am i a goku fanboy,i also mention him being stronger than hit made the finale flat and him mastering the ssb is stupid also ruined MZ if anything your the unbearable fanboy by your attitude.

It doesn't take a genius to see vegeta ruining the villains,here is the list.

Hit only won because vegeta did a stupid move making his victory less impressive.

just look at black,he was trash in his first encounter only winning by pure luck,it just took out all the power in their second encounter unlike in the anime where he gets defeated in the first battle making vegeta defeating black in later matches more satisfying hit.

Like i mention above goku is also a victim with this with zamas and hit.

BlueVegerot · Post by **BlueVegerot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:13 pm

The gr wrote:Wait how am i a goku fanboy,i also mention him being stronger than hit made the finale flat and him mastering the ssb is stupid also ruined MZ if anything your the unbearable fanboy by your attitude.
It doesn't take a genius to see vegeta ruining the villains,here is the list.
Hit only won because vegeta did a stupid move making his victory less impressive.
just look at black,he was trash in his first encounter only winning by pure luck,it just took out all the power in their second encounter unlike in the anime where he gets defeated in the first battle making vegeta defeating black in later matches more satisfying hit.Like i mention above goku is also a victim with this with zamas and hit.

Goku is a victim please spare me

He completed blue form despite spending the night before learning mafuba
he dominated hit , what a victim
vegeta got beaten by ss2 goku black in the manga , he ruined the manga.

I could easily say goku ruined the manga cause of his bullshit hakai technique or him doing mafuba instead of trunks. See how dumb that logic is,

Oh i forgot goku ruined merged zamasu cause a goku who was fucking weaker than goku black somehow asspulled completed blue and went toe to toe with m zamasu. Oh wait thats toyotaro and toriyama napkin outline

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:17 pm

that what i said,goku ruined zamas and hit,mastering ssb is just stupid and came out of nowhere as well with hakai and hit being below ssb is just sad.Is just a problem with toyo he just can't write villains.

BlueVegerot · Post by **BlueVegerot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:18 pm

The gr wrote:that what i said,goku ruined zamas and hit,mastering ssb is just stupid and came out of nowhere as well with hakai and hit being below ssb is just sad.Is just a problem with toyo he just can't write villains.

you said vegeta ruined the manga. I didn't read goku ruined the manga. Or is it fine when goku gets bullshit but not vegeta?

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:27 pm

BlueVegerot wrote: you said vegeta ruined the manga. I didn't read goku ruined the manga. Or is it fine when goku gets bullshit but not vegeta?

Goku as well is not safe from this,mastering ssb and suddenly being stronger than vegeta in spite of the latter training in the chamber is ridiculous and his battle with hit was weak,he was overpowering hit at every turn so no i'm not defending his nonesense.

BlueVegerot · Post by **BlueVegerot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:28 pm

The gr wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote: you said vegeta ruined the manga. I didn't read goku ruined the manga. Or is it fine when goku gets bullshit but not vegeta?
Goku as well is not safe from this,mastering ssb and suddenly being stronger than vegeta in spite of the latter training in the chamber is ridiculous and his battle with hit was weak,he was overpowering hit at every turn so no i'm not defending his nonesense.

We agree. ANyways this arc is off to a great start in the manga from an antagonist standpoint. Toppo is recognized as a GoD candidate and he beats goku and jiren actually gets personality.

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:32 pm

BlueVegerot wrote: We agree. ANyways this arc is off to a great start in the manga from an antagonist standpoint. Toppo is recognized as a GoD candidate and he beats goku and jiren actually gets personality.

Well just have to wait goku vs jiren,let's see how he will handled it.I will not be happy if goku overpowers jiren by training a little bit with SSB instead of UI.

I feel like toyotaro have improved a bit,his battle are really good right now and is introduced more unique ability as well interesting foes,he still suffer from callbacks and exposition through he toned down the exposition a little bit.

BlueVegerot · Post by **BlueVegerot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:40 pm

The gr wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote: We agree. ANyways this arc is off to a great start in the manga from an antagonist standpoint. Toppo is recognized as a GoD candidate and he beats goku and jiren actually gets personality.
Well just have to wait goku vs jiren,let's see how he will handled it.I will not be happy if goku overpowers jiren by training a little bit with SSB instead of UI.Seconded with toppo breaking the streak right now.

goku is not going to beat jiren with ssb, 0 chance of that happening. completed blue got beaten by toppo and jiren we know is stronger than the clown god. tbf to toyotaro it is likely toriyama never intended for hit to be broken like his anime counterpart or for goku black to be ridiculously strong since the original outline had merged zamasu be able to be handled by 2 ssb's. Toppo was said to be a GoD candidate so toyo did him justice unlike the anime and jiren is basically a GoD so no way blue even touches him

JazzMazz · Post by **JazzMazz** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:18 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:
The gr wrote:I will do the comparison of the manga and anime when both version are over with the new tournament.
JazzMazz wrote:Snip.
Yeah this is the main problem with toyotaro,he just sucks at handling the antagonist,it gets worse with black.the line of vegeta being 10x weaker ruin hit victory and made thing very confusing.The finale like you said was really anticlimatic.
I honestly think vegeta ruined the manga,he just make all the antagonist chumps and his line in the current chapter made me scratch my head,the manga is way better when he is not shown,all the best chapter in the TOP currently are the one he is no present.
Thankfully toppo is actually pretty strong and cool along with jiren so maybe they will break the streak of lame antagonist,it will be very ironic if that happens.
I actually liked Hit in the manga. In the anime he was just another generic, crazy strong silent type that wouldn't be nearly as popular if his design wasn't so good. There's almost no difference between him and Jiren.

Funnily enough, I find that Hit in the manga has less personality and character than his anime counter-part, despite being more emotive.

His relationship with Goku is less developed in the manga, and thats even with excluding the mini Assasination Arc from the anime. This is due to the manga version of Hit being an underwhelming opponent in comparison to his anime counter part.

In the universe 6 tournament, the anime version of the arc has Goku and Hit develop a mutual respect for one another, which leads to a lot of interesting character interactions and is something that is genuinely developed throughout their fight.

In the manga, Hit still respects Goku, but I don't see any reason for Goku to care or give a damn about Hit.

As an opponent, in the manga, Hit is physically underwhelming opponent with a unique gimmick that can be overcome if he comes up against some one stronger than himself. Thats literally all there is to him as an opponent. To beat him, you simply need to be more powerful than him, and you win.

In the anime Hit is a physically underwhelming opponent with a unique gimmick that allows him to defeat people of greater physical power than himself. However, this gimmick can be overcome through a unique method. However, Hit is also an opponent that can improve his technique to out-match his opponent, meaning his opponent will have to also improve in order to match him. In other words, the anime version of Hit, is the perfect opponent for Goku.

Hit is an opponent whose interesting for how he overcomes troublesome situations and his attitude while doing so. Same can be said for Goku. Both are characters that find themselves in precarious positions during their fight, and both characters handle those situations with different attitudes. Hit is likeable in the anime for handling tough situations cooly, efficiently and in an interesting manner. That is the appeal of the character. This appeal is something that is not present in the manga version of the character. He loses his cool quickly, he doesn't handle overcome obstacles in an interesting manner, and he isn't even efficient. This lack of "badass" appeal is also why a lot of people prefer the anime version of Black to his manga counter-part, who suffers from the same problem as the manga version of Hit.

Though Hit isn't much, he is leaps and bounds ahead of anime Jiren in terms of character, even within his introductory arc, when he was at his most boring. Hit has an interesting occupation, he has a interesting and fairly unique relationship with Goku that is explored adequately throughout their battle, and very early on they establish that he also has a code by which he acts upon. Anime Jiren, doesn't really have any of those things. Its true he has Hits appeal as a badass, but it is a very different breed of badass to Hits. While Hit relies far more on improving himself and cunning plans, Jirens main appeal comes from the fact his really really strong and can overcome any situation through power alone. Hits appeal as a badass can allows for some creativity with how he solves his situations, he can improve his technique or change up techniques to accomodate for different opponents, an aspect of him that I think was wonderfully potrayed in episode 104. Jirens appeal as a badass, on the other hand can become quite predictable and creatively stale, no matter the situation his in, the method and reasoning for overcoming an obstacle will always be the same.

Kanzenshuu

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