So is Goku supposed to allow Roshi...

[HeroR]

Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

He didn't asked, wrapped your mind around that? He promised the service first without asking or caring if they rejected to it. That is the problem here, not that the girl could say no since she was never asked to begin with.

[Simere]

Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

He didn't asked, wrapped your mind around that?

He thought he needed to ask, wrap your mind around that.

[HeroR]

He thought he needed to ask, wrap your mind around that.

He didn't think he needed to asked until he asked Old Kai did he want to touch a young woman's boobs and the deal was done before the woman in question was even asked. So yes, wrap your mind around that.

[Simere]

He thought he needed to ask, wrap your mind around that.

He didn't think he needed to asked until he asked Old Kai did he want to touch a young woman's boobs

He didn't bring it up until two seconds after that, we don't know when he thought of it. You find this a compelling argument?

It doesn't even matter when he thought of it. He could have thought about it after Boo was defeated and Old Kai came to him to deliver for all I care. That he did at all is the point. It demonstrates an understanding of consent. Which is the key for why the two situations are completely different.

and the deal was done before the woman in question was even asked. So yes, wrap your mind around that.

The deal is completely irrelevant; that she wasn't asked is irrelevant. Unless you want to explain how an unauthorized person making an agreement on your behalf holds any weight, there's no reason for you to keep bringing up an invalid point. If you're going to anyway, I'll have my friend debate you on it. She doesn't know about it, but trust me, she will.

[Cipher]

Crazy people who can't tell the difference between fiction and actual violence against actual people have no place discussing fiction. Singling out one form of action in fiction (as opposed to say, singling out another form of violence against someone) is hardly doing the real victims of any other form of violence justice, either. Combating actual violence against actual people won't happen with protecting the writes of fictional characters, it'll start with educating real people.

This particular issue differs from violence in that it isn't about active emulation, but about passivity in the face of something already oft-dismissed.

If I understand your point correctly, though, you're offering that, just as we've reached a point where violence is so clearly condemned in the real world that it isn't touched by our ability to make light of it in all-ages fiction, we should be able to reach a similar point with sexual harassment. I hope so! In the meantime, examining the levity applied to it in all-ages shows certainly seems like a place to start. Again, if we really get over that hurdle, ask me in a decade or two if those gags still feel irresponsible/thoughtless.

[perucho1990]

The whole gag wasnt done properly, even if DBS is a PG show, the pervert gag couldve worked, The Fairy Tail anime was also a PG show(aired in the same timeslot as DBS), and they showed Lucy Naked in front of Natsu.

Just like how they got one of FT animators, Toei should get also one of writers that worked in the FT anime, someone that knows how to do a proper pervert gag.

[LightBing]

I didn't give much thought to this while watching the episode, I was bit weird out at the insistence on Roshi's perversion but just brushed it off as filling time in a poorly writing episode.

I don't advocate for art to teach morals and be politically correct, I don't think the bad guys need a lesson at the end of the day.
However when you're catering to children and you present us a scene where a character is making clear unwanted advances aka molestation, then you have Goku, the hero and I assume idol of many of the children, see it and just walk away. You're, even if inadvertently, saying that's OK.

That's my only issue with the episode. Roshi was called a pervert, children know(should know) that it's a bad thing. If they don't it's the parents fault and not Dragon Ball.

Just my two cents.

[Asura]

I don't know why so many people seem to think this was just "good ol' Roshi" and "this is how he's always been!"

It's like the "Goku is acting selfish and evil" argument all over again, where because these characters have these traits, people assume it's still in-character if these traits are notched up to 2000%.

Roshi's always been a perv, no shit. We all know this. But never in DB or Z was he ever this aggressive with a woman, to the point where it was actually uncomfortable to watch.

And that's the key word there really, uncomfortable. I'm not offended by it, I'm simply uncomfortable and disturbed while watching it. It wasn't even remotely funny. This doesn't even feel like Master Roshi at this point. As many others have pointed out, Roshi's pervyness was a source of light comedy in DB. He'd always try something, but either his plans would backfire before he got to see/do anything, or he would get the shit beaten out of him right afterwards for it. Roshi never aggressively chased and tried to pounce on girls after carrying them off to a room somewhere against their will though. Not only that, but every Roshi gag scene in DB would last probably 30 seconds tops. This one seemed to go on for hours. It just kept dragging, and dragging, and dragging, increasingly becoming more uncomfortable to watch.

This was an absolutely horrendous episode, and this scene in particular should be burnt and never seen again simply for the fact that they completely butchered Master Roshi's character and wrote him into some kind of borderline attempted rapist instead of a pervy, yet endearing old man. Whoever has been doing the writing for Super sure does love character assassination. It's getting to the point where almost every character is literally just written as a bad trope of themselves rather than actual characters with some depth.

[visser]

Murder: cool
Sexual assault meant to be comedic: they have taken it too far.

[Cipher]

I don't know why so many people seem to think this was just "good ol' Roshi" and "this is how he's always been!"

It's like the "Goku is acting selfish and evil" argument all over again, where because these characters have these traits, people assume it's still in-character if these traits are notched up to 2000%.

Ugh, yeah. Even ignoring the human component here, this has been a constant issue with Super's scripting.

[Kanassa]

Roshi never aggressively chased and tried to pounce on girls after carrying them off to a room somewhere against their will though.

Yeah, he just waited until they were knocked unconscious and then decided to start feeling them up.

[Asura]

Roshi never aggressively chased and tried to pounce on girls after carrying them off to a room somewhere against their will though.

Yeah, he just waited until they were knocked unconscious and then decided to start feeling them up.

In a scene that literally lasts a grand total of 11 seconds. Although I will say I didn't really like this scene either as it felt a bit too far as compared to his usual antics. But it's not a big deal since it's just a small 11 second short irrelevant to the plot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpYNSyb3mAY

He wasn't aggressive or forcing himself either. Point is, scenes like these are gags that need to be treated as tiny little 30 second shorts maximum. Taking 5 whole minutes to show in detail Roshi chasing and pouncing on a defenseless woman and carrying her away into a room somewhere is just uncomfortable and awkward.

[Puaru]

then you have Goku, the hero and I assume idol of many of the children, see it and just walk away.

Goku is the hero, but he is a hero with a very particular personality, a personality what happens to be rather flawed in terms of morals and social skills.

Or to put it the way I did a few pages back, he is a dumb-ass piece of shit.

But him being a dumb-ass piece of shit in such a unique and interesting way is part of why we love to watch Goku, why he is faschinating, and to take that away would hurt the series and our experience watching it.

[LightBing]

then you have Goku, the hero and I assume idol of many of the children, see it and just walk away.

Goku is the hero, but he is a hero with a very particular personality, a personality what happens to be rather flawed in terms of morals and social skills.

Or to put it the way I did a few pages back, he is a dumb-ass piece of shit.

But him being a dumb-ass piece of shit in such a unique and interesting way is part of why we love to watch Goku, why he is faschinating, and to take that away would hurt the series and our experience watching it.

This scene in particular doesn't take away from that. I argue that it might even out-of-character, because for all his flaws Goku never turns his back to people needing help. Yurin was literally running and screaming.

You could argue that he didn't understand what was happening, to which I repeat Yurin was literally running and screaming.

[Puaru]

This scene in particular doesn't take away from that. I argue that it might even out-of-character, because for all his flaws Goku never turns his back to people needing help. Yurin was literally running and screaming.

You could argue that he didn't understand what was happening, to which I repeat Yurin was literally running and screaming.

Yeah but he sees Bulma and Chichi acting violent and frighten people all the time and he just laughs it of like it ain't nothing, probably because he knows that at least they wont kill or severely hurt their victims. And he knows the same thing regadring Roshi and his molestations, he knows that Roshi isn't gonna beat the girl to a bloody pulp or anything. And in his dumb-ass innocent mind that probably translate the whole situation to "not that big a deal". It's just unimportant nonsense to him, and all it does to him is either make him slightly uncomfortable or just outright amuse him and make him laugh. That's how he always reacts to that sorta stuff. Either that, or he doesn't react at all. He has the sexual awareness of a bacteria (you know, bacteria being asexual and all).

[GodKaio-Ken]

Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

He didn't asked, wrapped your mind around that? He promised the service first without asking or caring if they rejected to it. That is the problem here, not that the girl could say no since she was never asked to begin with.

Sorry but if somehow my fate or the universe or something like that was at stake Id make the same deal without asking if it helped.

Everyone > How one person feels

[HeroR]

but if somehow my fate or the universe or something like that was at stake Id make the same deal without asking if it helped.

Everyone > How one person feels

Sexual harassment is never okay.

[GodKaio-Ken]

but if somehow my fate or the universe or something like that was at stake Id make the same deal without asking if it helped.

Everyone > How one person feels

Sexual harassment is never okay.

To save the universe Id be totally fine with it, even against myself. Some things go beyond our own cares, feelings and morals.

Just my 2 cents. I see individual life as having no value apart from the whole. To keep your dignity intact for total annihilation isnt smart to me.

However the real topic is Roshi and he wasnt doing anything good LOL

[Super_Divine_Genki]

The Turtle Hermit was just cashing in on the perks of being Honorary Master to Tens' dojo, and was treating himself to the ''privileges'' befitting of that title as that was strictly the first line of agreement that he'd signed on to. Yeah?

Joking aside, I had more issue with the length that the sequence ran on for. These Roshi antics are usually straight-to-the-point-->DING!!-->and onto the next phase of the narrative. Not only was it handled poorly, but it took up valuable time that should've been allocated to the friendship/mentorship element of the episode which resulted in things falling flat as for why Ten/Roshi were sought after and highlighted for recruitment.

And Goku's reaction was surprisingly totally in-line with his character if we consider what he's been exposed to and how he's perceived the world from the beginning. Goku has tunnel-vision for reaching pinnacles of strength, mastering areas of himself, and is an overly-excited battle maniac -- stopping occasionally to eat and sleep. Goku is not a moral compass.

But, yeah. I more-or-less agree with the general sentiments of this thread.

[funrush]

I get that it was supposed to be funny, but it just wasn't. It was really creepy. That on top of the fact that Roshi isn't even a hundreth as strong as anyone else on the team had me mad at the end of the episode. He was shoehorned into his arc for that. We could've gotten Dabura, or Gotenks, or Yamcha instead, so his molestations in this episode were like insult upon injury.

Goku's reaction was fine. He doesn't know any better.